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Can't believe it's happening yet again

Dragons 09

Juniors
Messages
1,760
No. Of course he has responsibility. Its not the coach OR the players, its the coach AND the players.
So if the coach has responsibility, guess who also has responsibility? Yep, the players.

Yesterday I looked out and thought these guys aren't having a real hard go here at all. I believe that just wanted to use the least amount of energy to win...just like they did against the dogs and parra. Winning while playing with 60% of the energy you should be playing with is dangerous....it teaches players that they dont have to go full tank and they still get rewarded.

Where did the energy after Widdop score come from? The fairy god mother? Santa Claus? A genie? Mary? No, it came from the players side of things. If they turned it on, why didnt they turn it on more for the 70mins prior to that?

I agree, it is BOTH player and coaches responsibility, but your argument seems to want to place it squarely on the shoulders of the players. I just don’t buy that.

If you are right however, I won't be near as frustrated now when we take 3 x one out charges into the middle and get smashed in gang tackles resulting in slow play the balls (the odd second man play wouldn't go astray but hey, I won't dare question Mary's game plan or tactics)

Next ball to Frizz so he can run that angle back into the middle again and get smashed (how about the odd change of angle and run at a midget half or 5/8th for a change but hey, I won't dare question Mary's game plan or tactics)

Then go for the good old block play to the left or one of our halves crabs across field and calls an outside runner back in under him inclusive of hand waving directions just so the defence knows what we are doing (how about straightening up and attacking the line to open up more options with centres or fullback on the outside or edge back rowers or fullback back on the inside but hey, I won't dare question Mary's game plan or tactics).

And finally we follow with a kick straight down the throat of the opponent’s fullback just so we can fully implement what we practiced all week at training.

Energy is a two way street mate, physical energy is achieved through fitness and freshness and sometimes by new opportunities, whereas mental energy is achieved through reward for effort. You can be fresh as a daisy, but if you keep doing the same shit and keep achieving the same lack of positive result, mentally you start to question what in the f**k you are doing and that energy rapidly deminishes. If it isn’t working it isn’t working, but to be expected to keep doing it because that is the "game plan" is just dumb.

All good with you having your opinion, I respect that, honestly I do, but for me, our coach has never shown an ability to adapt to circumstance on a strategic level. Whether that be in those mini moments in games where a tactical shift is required because the opposition has our measure and is getting over the top of us, with bench selection and/or rotation or in the bigger picture with regards appropriate game plan and with regards team selections. Yes, sometimes it works for him and that's great, but when it's not working it is almost always a flash of individual brilliance or our play makers going outside of the script that has got us the points, not a piece of tactical adaptation genius from our coach.

I know many of us on here jest about the lack of ‘Plan B” from time to time, but, for me, it’s not a joke. You can put that down to ‘lack of player energy” and suggesting our players aren’t having a go if you like, but I don’t. I can't cop Mary, never have been able to and never will, so perhaps my thoughts are bias, but anyone who doesn't see him as being at the very least, equally responsible for poor performances is either Mary himself, his wife or just plain clueless.
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
17,150
He got it wrong too I believe. He couldve rested at least one of them.

That doesnt excuse the other players that played like they had just come off rep footy but hadnt played any rep footy at all. Those guys shouldve lifted. What happened there?
Friz could have used a rest, but with host injured who would you use to replace him? Luc for 40 then nightingale?

JDB was probably more likely, by bringing sele/lawrie in, but we have some serious depth issues.
 

Gareth67

First Grade
Messages
8,430
I get the sneaking suspicion Mary wants to be the players "best mate"..or seen as "A Good Bloke"...nothing wrong with that but he has a job to do and that requires setting the best interests of the individual players and the Team.

As you correctly stated Gareth...guys like Bellamy/Bennett know how to juggle this and that's why they end up being successful...

Yes that has appeared to be the case for a number of seasons and that , as we all know simply does not accomplish anything other then disappointment.

When as a young Fitter&Turner apprentice - straight from the school yard - I quickly realized that the tradesmen were there to teach you the trade and you listened to every syllable of each word that was spoken . If you came across as a brat they would not waste their valuable time on you . They only became friendly after they could see that you were indeed making progress , that you were listening and learning .

Being the players friend is and never will be of benefit to the team and that has been the problem for just too many years now . A hard taskmaster is what every team needs to have the beginning of success , but that of course will not happen until the old brigade is gone , most sadly .
 

ozbuck

Juniors
Messages
464
Bennett has done plenty, Mary has done zilch. Any comparison is ridiculous unless it's to highlight the gulf between coaching abilities.

Straight Shooter

Thats my exact point! If Bennett couldnt get his players up for the games perhaps it all doesn't solely lie on the coach. Perhaps there's other pieces to the puzzle not seen, or not wanted to be seen. Bennett said, I remember it clearly, that these players need to figure it out. He realised that he can only do so much.

All of the players yesterday who hadn't played rep footy, I can't think of one who was ripping in 101% yesterday. Those boys need to have a look at themselves in the mirror.
Mary f**ked up too yesterday in a couple of ways. But even with Marys f**k ups, another 5 mins of playing time yesterday and I reckon we win that game. Another 5x the intensity yesterday from kickoff and we win by 20+.easy
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
17,054
At this stage. Exactly.

People are reacting like the form we've been in the last 3-4 weeks in permanent and pervasive. And because we started the season strong and have had a rough last month just like the last couple of seasons, everyone is saying HERE WE GO! Apparently the past = the future. We hadnt won in Canberra for 15 years or some crap until last year. We should never have won that game if the past = the future.

People are reacting to the past, not the present.
Interesting slant you put on things.
I understand your concept of Coach & Players.
In the beginning of our recent seasons the coach gets the benefit of all things that the team does well and gladly accepts the accolades.
Now the team is losing its way the only person they can turn to to address the situation is in fact the coach.
This is not the first time the team have been in this position however each time it gets into this position the coach comes up short either by way of tactics, selection, inability to instill the correct message.
If the team shows similar patterns in respect of outcomes despite the significant improvement in roster over his 4 years then I would like to know why we should expect some different outcome and why you are at odds to think it will be different?
There is nothing to show that the outcome will be different as the same pattern is repeating itself, cut & paste team selection, no players ever dropped for poor form, poor pathway for young players, senior players suffering burn out, never any admission we are in a slump and playing poorly, never anyone elevated to the top team so we are to assume that not 1 reggie player is able to dislodge an NRL player despite us sliding at the back end of the season.
The coach is hell bent on his own methodology and as such deserves to be blamed when it turns to shit.
If we had of lost yesterday by resting all our key players and freshening them up then that would be acceptable but picking them yet again and not winning has achieved exactly what in your opinion?
Im my opinion it has achieved SFA and will prove detrimental in the final outcome as all the good teams are busy resting players getting them ready for finals footy and whilst Souths did not do that they are now clear at the top of the ladder and can do so at a time of their own choosing, whilst we have to roll the dice and try too prevent slipping below 4th.
The coach has been required to do something for some time and has done nothing to improve our lot so f**k him and all those that think he has the wherefore all to turn it around are sadly mistaken and have again taken the bait.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,738
Interesting slant you put on things.
I understand your concept of Coach & Players.
In the beginning of our recent seasons the coach gets the benefit of all things that the team does well and gladly accepts the accolades.
Now the team is losing its way the only person they can turn to to address the situation is in fact the coach.
This is not the first time the team have been in this position however each time it gets into this position the coach comes up short either by way of tactics, selection, inability to instill the correct message.
If the team shows similar patterns in respect of outcomes despite the significant improvement in roster over his 4 years then I would like to know why we should expect some different outcome and why you are at odds to think it will be different?
There is nothing to show that the outcome will be different as the same pattern is repeating itself, cut & paste team selection, no players ever dropped for poor form, poor pathway for young players, senior players suffering burn out, never any admission we are in a slump and playing poorly, never anyone elevated to the top team so we are to assume that not 1 reggie player is able to dislodge an NRL player despite us sliding at the back end of the season.
The coach is hell bent on his own methodology and as such deserves to be blamed when it turns to shit.
If we had of lost yesterday by resting all our key players and freshening them up then that would be acceptable but picking them yet again and not winning has achieved exactly what in your opinion?
Im my opinion it has achieved SFA and will prove detrimental in the final outcome as all the good teams are busy resting players getting them ready for finals footy and whilst Souths did not do that they are now clear at the top of the ladder and can do so at a time of their own choosing, whilst we have to roll the dice and try too prevent slipping below 4th.
The coach has been required to do something for some time and has done nothing to improve our lot so f**k him and all those that think he has the wherefore all to turn it around are sadly mistaken and have again taken the bait.
Agree..

The coach has taken his eye off the ball ever since he signed with the Knights.
 

ouryears

Bench
Messages
3,195
Oh sh!t!

Sorry!

Accidentally copied this post from Rd 21 in 2010.

Nothing to do with this season of course. I mean back then we had just lost two games in a row. (of course we only started playing in the last 10 minutes! typical! That coach was rubbish - glad he's gone.
We won the competition in 2010
Are you on the grog?!!
 

ouryears

Bench
Messages
3,195
I am sure that the Dragons are not on the slide to oblivion this season . Yes the last few games have shown up a number of deficiencies in both attack and defense and many of our players have been guilty of some very basic errors, but they will regroup and return to play the exciting footy that we know that they are capable of .

As I mentioned yesterday there are players who appear to be tired , more so the SOO reps. Some of those players do need a rest and Mary must allow them that time to recuperate . Six games remaining and we are capable of winning most of them , giving the Dragons a place in the top 4 and depending on how well they play higher.
Mate, we are in oblivion.
Gone, finished, fat lady has sung her song.
Sorry to bring reality into your day.
 

Gareth67

First Grade
Messages
8,430
Mate, we are in oblivion.
Gone, finished, fat lady has sung her song.
Sorry to bring reality into your day.

So we won’t be cheering the boys on in the semi’s ? ?

It was a game that we had to win , of course we did not , but I am not going to slash my wrists just yet . Why , as there has been a marked change in the Dragons attitude this season compared to the last 3 . We do have a team that can play better than they did yesterday , admittedly they need to regain that spirit and also confidence shown earlier in the year .
 

Gareth67

First Grade
Messages
8,430
GA67, I honestly believe McGregor will not rest any stars, heck, he doesn’t let injured players have a rest, let alone tired players.

Also to consider, who do we have to take their place?

Very few lower grade players have been allowed to ease their way into first grade, so now after we’ve lost a couple, can’t see McGregor resting anyone.

I will stand corrected though.

OKB1 , sorry I took so long but I am not on the iPad constantly , but to the point - your quite right buddy I wrote that little piece more so for my own confidence as I am not as blind as I may make out to be .

Nothing was lost on me in yesterday’s result , in fact I was just so disappointed with some of the players , the SOO boys played their hearts out yet again , where as a number of our regular 1st graders played like schoolboys ( and that is after enjoying a 10 day break ) committing the most basic of mistakes - soul destroying to say the least .

I can only hope that they can lift themselves off the ground and move on from here , as the team has made such wonderful progress this season and it would be such a tragedy to see them slip any further down the ladder - for all concerned. :innocent:
 

emack

Juniors
Messages
357
As the name suggests, defibrillation stops fibrillation, the useless trembling that a person's heart muscles can adopt during a cardiac arrest. Simply speaking, a defibrillator works by using a moderately high voltage (something like 200–1000 volts) to pass an electric current through the heart so it's shocked into working normally again. The patient's heart receives roughly 300 joules of electrical energy (about as much as a 100 watt incandescent lamp uses in three seconds).
 

Dragons 09

Juniors
Messages
1,760
As the name suggests, defibrillation stops fibrillation, the useless trembling that a person's heart muscles can adopt during a cardiac arrest. Simply speaking, a defibrillator works by using a moderately high voltage (something like 200–1000 volts) to pass an electric current through the heart so it's shocked into working normally again. The patient's heart receives roughly 300 joules of electrical energy (about as much as a 100 watt incandescent lamp uses in three seconds).

My thoughts exactly!
 

ouryears

Bench
Messages
3,195
So we won’t be cheering the boys on in the semi’s ? ?

It was a game that we had to win , of course we did not , but I am not going to slash my wrists just yet . Why , as there has been a marked change in the Dragons attitude this season compared to the last 3 . We do have a team that can play better than they did yesterday , admittedly they need to regain that spirit and also confidence shown earlier in the year .
If the Raiders aren't more than 10 points behind us, no, we won't be playing in the semis.

If we do, 1 week.

You need to compare Souths, Storm, and Sharks form vs ours.

In comparison we are finished, gone.

This time of year if you aren't winning 4 games in every 5, it's goodnight.
 

KiamaSaint

Coach
Messages
17,552
We need to dump the coach and get an experience coach from the outside. He is a Dragon legend, but Craig Young just isn't a 1st grade coach.


Sorry, accidentally quoted a post from 1989.
 

st penguin

Juniors
Messages
293
Agree..

The coach has taken his eye off the ball ever since he signed with the Knights.

Muzby, I just want to take a moment to commend you on your focus on only making comments relating to the original premise of this thread.

If only our players could show the same drive and tenacity maybe we wouldn't be in this current predicament. Bravo.

Gotta run - I'm off to see Kick Ass at the cinema!
 

ouryears

Bench
Messages
3,195
Yes we won the comp. Can you not see the parallels between...oh nevermind.
No there are no parallels
2010 we had a real coach
No parallels
Whatever it is you are trying to say, say it, it's not a secret society
Unless.....oh ever mind
 

BennyV

Referee
Messages
22,748
You guys are putting far too much effort into an assistant coach that Bennett got rid of..

Why is he even in discussion?
I know this comment was made to te in with the 2010 theme of the thread, but I feel it's still valid in 2018.
 

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