Wrestling is sad

[Hanscholo]

alright man if u find it entertaining then thats...good.:lol:
that 'entertainment' is worse than Jerry Springer.
at least you can get a few laughs out of Jerry.
with wrestling its all bullsh*t, its a lie! and dont say ''its just entertainment'' because its downright crap

You miss the point of it. Its a parody, the more popcorn it is the funnier and more interesting most wrestling fans like it. Its a meladromatic soap opera with a lot of humour and some great athletes thrown in.

I feel sorry for people who cant see past a 2D image.

 

[Eelementary]

Erm, correct me if I'm wrong but Jericho beat HBK in a ladder match and in the last man standing match which was the last match in their feud.

And as for that last part, "don't you dare"? :lol: Edge and Orton are the two most talented superstars in the WWE today. Obviously not at the level of Rock or Austin yet but give it time. Randy Orton will retire as the best babyface in the history of the WWE.

I was referring to the feud. Be real - Jericho was never going to come out on top of HBK in the feud. We all know that.

Orton, better babyface than Stone Cold or The RocK? Right...OK, if that's your opinion, then so be it. I completely disagree.

And for the record, I am an Edge and Orton fan. But they are nowhere near the calibre of SCSA or The Rock.

 

[Eelementary]

You are a small minority of the IWC that doesn't think that HBK and Jericho had a set of good fued's and good matches. This upcoming raw is quite a good one as well, and this Cena/Jericho fued is looking like a good one too.

I actually wonder if you have watched wrestling, at least consistently? Jeff Hardy takes awesome bumps, please point me in the direction of anything that suggests otherwise...? I am not a HUGE Edge fan, but he has his support, and puhlease... Orton is the entire package of what a cocky heel should be. Stone cold and The Rock were awesome entertainers, but the both of them weren't the epitome of technical or interesting wrestling. That isn't to say they were bad, but Orton and Jericho are as good if not better. I do love The Rock and Stone Cold for what they've done though, hell, Stone Cold was who got me into wrestling until he walked out and left the company and I was forced to find a new favorite. When he returned though I was 100 percent jerichoholic so it wasn't as exciting. I wasn't around in the Bret Hart era to comment on it.

Jericho went over HBK in all of the matches after their first one... in a last man standind match and also a ladder match, both for the world heavyweight champion. Not that the winner of the fued makes a difference, however, as Bumble says you are completely wrong.

Which leads me to the question again, do you even follow wrestling? Because the match HBK won in was ages ago. Also mate, stop living in the past. If you hate the WWE that much these days go and watch TNA or something. Not ALL wrestling can suck. You are like one of those elderly or older generation that always say that music of their day was so much better than it is now. Please.

Also, Bumble, You mean heel right? Because imo he makes a much better heel than face.

Maybe you should learn to stop jumping to conclusions. I didn't say they didn't put on good matches. I said their booking was boring.

Right...Edge and Orton are the epitome of technical wrestling? And did you ever even watch SCSA before Owen broke his neck? You might wanna brush up on that before you try to prove how much better you are.

And I'll say whatever I want. It's a forum. But for your tiny, pathetic brain, I'll elaborate: I do enjoy wrestling. You can spout your bullsh*t, "Hehe I'm an immature f**kwit who knows more than you teeheehee", but the fact remains that I have been into wrestling for 12 years. And the trend has been in the past few years to do away with the gimmicks. That was the big part of the entertainment for me - that is partially why I always found The Undertaker so intriguing. His gimmick. It's no secret that today's wrestling is shying away from that; wrestlers are being encouraged to do away with gimmicks and be more real. Case in point - Kevin Thorne. He had the whole vampire gimmick happening and was starting to get reactions from the crowd. But, much like what happened to him when he was Mordecai, it soon got benched. Instead, we see people like Atlas Ortiz. No unique skills, no unique look...He's bland and generic.

But then, I understand if that would be too much for you to take in.

How's the Hagan support going?

 

[Eelementary]

Was it though...I think people who think the Monday Night Wars was absolutely flawless are living in lala land. It is what it is, it was what it was. ECW in the 90s was the only true revolutionary product, and ROH nowadays is the only product in the US that actually does things differently

From a certain perspective, I would say that it was. The booking for feuds and/or matches felt much sharper - I genuinely never saw some of the twists coming, specially when it involved a big name like The Rock.

These days, most of the time, if you have a feud (let's say Cena against Jericho), you know that McMahon is so driven by merchandise sales that Cena, 90% of the time, will go over Y2J. Sure, Y2J may win a match here or there. But ultimately, when the title is on the line or the feud is going to end, John Cena will triumph.

Now, I don't dislike Cena. But when you can see what is going to happen like that, it kills any sense of suspense.

OK, they still do some good work - that beat the clock challenge on SmackDown! last week where both Hardy and HHH finished at the same time was pretty good. But it just seems to me, generally, that mainstream professional wrestling these days is going stale. Of course, seeing as it's been around for a while it's not hard to see why. But it just feels that it could be better. TNA goes OK. ROH goes OK (I realise ROH isn't exactly mainstream). The WWE...Killing off and then buying ECW and WCW was the worst thing that ever could have happened to them because they can be tame and still get high ratings simply because no other mainstream alternative is available.

 

[Bumble]

I was referring to the feud. Be real - Jericho was never going to come out on top of HBK in the feud. We all know that.

Orton, better babyface than Stone Cold or The RocK? Right...OK, if that's your opinion, then so be it. I completely disagree.

And for the record, I am an Edge and Orton fan. But they are nowhere near the calibre of SCSA or The Rock.

By the end of his career. Where was "Rocky Maivia" after the first 2 years of his career. Getting X-Pac heat, that's where. Randy on the other hand was the world champion after two years. Austin took 6.

It's not my opinion as to the present. It's what I (and many others) think. Let's wait and see how it turns out.

And how exactly aren't Orton and Edge in the same league as SCSA and the Rock? They've both been more over as heels than The Rock ever could and as I said, Randy can take the face route too.

 

[abpanther]

Stone Cold and the Rock >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orton and Edge

I'll be honest, I haven't watched wrestling as much in the past 12 months but I have seen bits and pieces, neither Orton or Edge do it for me, Orton looks like a smug prick and Edge has potential but never convinced me. Crowds were captivated when Austin and Rock has the mic in their hands, I haven't seen that same effect since.

JMO

 

[Ari Gold]

By the end of his career. Where was "Rocky Maivia" after the first 2 years of his career. Getting X-Pac heat, that's where. Randy on the other hand was the world champion after two years. Austin took 6.

It's not my opinion as to the present. It's what I (and many others) think. Let's wait and see how it turns out.

And how exactly aren't Orton and Edge in the same league as SCSA and the Rock? They've both been more over as heels than The Rock ever could and as I said, Randy can take the face route too.

:lol::lol:

You didn't even watch wrestling back then...

 

[Bumble]

:lol::lol:

You didn't even watch wrestling back then...

You realise how much stuff from the last 10 or so years I've watched, right?

Nice diversion because you can't argue the point, though.

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

The Rock, in his days as IC champ in the Nation, and his first run as WWE Champ, was the BEST heel I've ever seen...well, save for Raven in mid-1996 ECW, and to a lesser degree Jericho when he was fueding with Malenko in WCW. He was over over. He was such a fricken asshole.

Randy is boring and monotonous, but he's started to get reactions. Edge sucks period. He cant even lace Christian's boots in terms of charisma and in ring talent. He was the leader of their tag team and thus was pushed more.

From a certain perspective, I would say that it was. The booking for feuds and/or matches felt much sharper - I genuinely never saw some of the twists coming, specially when it involved a big name like The Rock.

These days, most of the time, if you have a feud (let's say Cena against Jericho), you know that McMahon is so driven by merchandise sales that Cena, 90% of the time, will go over Y2J. Sure, Y2J may win a match here or there. But ultimately, when the title is on the line or the feud is going to end, John Cena will triumph.

Now, I don't dislike Cena. But when you can see what is going to happen like that, it kills any sense of suspense.

OK, they still do some good work - that beat the clock challenge on SmackDown! last week where both Hardy and HHH finished at the same time was pretty good. But it just seems to me, generally, that mainstream professional wrestling these days is going stale. Of course, seeing as it's been around for a while it's not hard to see why. But it just feels that it could be better. TNA goes OK. ROH goes OK (I realise ROH isn't exactly mainstream). The WWE...Killing off and then buying ECW and WCW was the worst thing that ever could have happened to them because they can be tame and still get high ratings simply because no other mainstream alternative is available.

Dont get me wrong, the return of X-Pac, debut of Jericho, Big Show and Taz got me, I knew they were coming, just not when. They booked their main event well in 1998 (Austin v McMahon was at its peak), and 2000 (on the back of Foley and HHH), but 1999 was fricken terrible, their undercard sucked in this period, and it wasnt until the arrival of the Radicalz, Dudleyz, Kurt Angle, Jericho and push of the Hardyz that things picked up.

Blue Dust, Oddities, ICP, Big Bossman and the NEw Age Outlaws...no thank you.

And to be honest f**k the mainstream. You dont need the TV to get wrestling anymore, which is why the WWE sucks so bad. If ROH used the internet to its full potential, they could easily reach a massive audience. If they had subscription fees to say, view every live show recorded, and a monthly PPV...which was charged via the internet, at a reasonable rate and quality, they would reach MASSIVE amounts of people.

The problem is, people are stuck in the 80s/90s. Television isnt the only medium, and infact ratings on TV are the incredibly unreliable. Atleast with the internet you can accurately track your audience. And if the used it wisely enough, the possibilities are endless.

 

[mozza91]

Randy is boring and monotonous, but he's started to get reactions. Edge sucks period. He cant even lace Christian's boots in terms of charisma and in ring talent. He was the leader of their tag team and thus was pushed more.

Edge is far superior to Christian both are great performers but Edge is brilliant the best heel the company has.

 

[Eelementary]

By the end of his career. Where was "Rocky Maivia" after the first 2 years of his career. Getting X-Pac heat, that's where. Randy on the other hand was the world champion after two years. Austin took 6.

It's not my opinion as to the present. It's what I (and many others) think. Let's wait and see how it turns out.

And how exactly aren't Orton and Edge in the same league as SCSA and the Rock? They've both been more over as heels than The Rock ever could and as I said, Randy can take the face route too.

But is that because The Rock was a bad heel, or because he was just so damn charismatic that you just couldn't boo him?

Hell, Stone Cold originally was supposed to be a heel but his charisma won everyone over, and a tweener he became.

 

[Eelementary]

The Rock, in his days as IC champ in the Nation, and his first run as WWE Champ, was the BEST heel I've ever seen...well, save for Raven in mid-1996 ECW, and to a lesser degree Jericho when he was fueding with Malenko in WCW. He was over over. He was such a fricken asshole.

Randy is boring and monotonous, but he's started to get reactions. Edge sucks period. He cant even lace Christian's boots in terms of charisma and in ring talent. He was the leader of their tag team and thus was pushed more.



Dont get me wrong, the return of X-Pac, debut of Jericho, Big Show and Taz got me, I knew they were coming, just not when. They booked their main event well in 1998 (Austin v McMahon was at its peak), and 2000 (on the back of Foley and HHH), but 1999 was fricken terrible, their undercard sucked in this period, and it wasnt until the arrival of the Radicalz, Dudleyz, Kurt Angle, Jericho and push of the Hardyz that things picked up.

Blue Dust, Oddities, ICP, Big Bossman and the NEw Age Outlaws...no thank you.

And to be honest f**k the mainstream. You dont need the TV to get wrestling anymore, which is why the WWE sucks so bad. If ROH used the internet to its full potential, they could easily reach a massive audience. If they had subscription fees to say, view every live show recorded, and a monthly PPV...which was charged via the internet, at a reasonable rate and quality, they would reach MASSIVE amounts of people.

The problem is, people are stuck in the 80s/90s. Television isnt the only medium, and infact ratings on TV are the incredibly unreliable. Atleast with the internet you can accurately track your audience. And if the used it wisely enough, the possibilities are endless.

Mainstream is my preferred option simply because my internet limit is always going over as it is, and I can't really increase the download limit. But that notwithstanding, yes - the more obscure companies do a great job. Lesser production values but a greater focus on ring work, story-telling and just general entertainment.

Wrestling perhaps wasn't brilliant back in the Attitude era, but personally it was more entertaining. Probably because it was more far-fetched.

I mean it goes both ways - you get some stupid crap like the infamous Katie Vick nonsense. And then on the other hand you get the very, very famous milk truck scenario (I prefer this to Austin's beer because I expected something like that out of the Rattlesnake...But Angle? lol), which made me chuckle for quite some time.

I just feel that the WWE wrestlers are pushed to portray a certain image. They use a mould, and it gets tiresome. Who are the guys who are GENUINELY entertaining and/or engaging on the stick these days? HHH, Cena has his moments, Jericho (though I don't much care for his current crybaby angle), Edge has his moments, Orton has his moments, HBK, Morrison and Miz (their Dirt Sheet is great work)...You got guys like Atlas Ortiz and Jack Swagger who have good in-ring ability, but have zero charisma and can't use the stick. Nowadays most of the WWE's promos are based on toe-to-toe stare-downs and intimidation. All you need to be able to do is growl and grunt and you're a main-eventer, provided Vince thinks you're big enough.

I mean he's currently pushing Jeff Hardy through the roof, and he's doing an OK job - I hate Hardy, but he's growing on me. But he has no mic skills at all, his charisma needs serious work and his in-ring ability is nowhere near some of his other peers - yet he's in the world title picture? Meanwhile, young bucks like Elijah Burke are stuck nowhere...

With a bit more variety, and some focus in some creative areas (again - Ortiz could maybe be huge, but give him something that captivates the crowd; his Ricky O rally towels, whilst amusing, are not working), the WWE could be brilliant. They have the talent. They have the cash. They have the loyal followers. They just need that desire to really provide world-class entertainment.

 

[mozza91]

I mean he's currently pushing Jeff Hardy through the roof, and he's doing an OK job - I hate Hardy, but he's growing on me. But he has no mic skills at all, his charisma needs serious work and his in-ring ability is nowhere near some of his other peers - yet he's in the world title picture? Meanwhile, young bucks like Elijah Burke are stuck nowhere...

Hardy isn't getting a massive push he won't win the strap he was only put in the triple threat at SS to protect Kozlov and will soon leave the title picture

 

[Eelementary]

A few months back he was nearly sacked...I'd say being in the title hunt, whether winning it eventually or not, is a pretty massive push...

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

He's there because he puts bums on seats. The same reason they kept Michaels in the early/mid 90s.

Edge is far superior to Christian both are great performers but Edge is brilliant the best heel the company has.

have you seen any of Christian in the past 2 or 3 years...the guy has been phenomenal. His promos are awesome - he can do funny, serious, sarcastic...he is a writer's dream. And, he can work with multi-style opponents, and still look the part. Edge sucks. His spear sucks. He cant sell. He doesnt have a finisher. He cant give a promo, hes still living off the fact he f*cked Matt Hardy's fiance...he sucks. Best heel? Jericho's work in the past 6 months dwarfs anything Edge has ever done. He needed a 2 year long fued with the Undertaker to get him over. And thats only because it was The Undertaker.

 

[mozza91]

Edge's heel promo's are fantastic WTF your a TNA mark and can't except the fact WWE is better

 

[Bumble]

He's there because he puts bums on seats. The same reason they kept Michaels in the early/mid 90s.



have you seen any of Christian in the past 2 or 3 years...the guy has been phenomenal. His promos are awesome - he can do funny, serious, sarcastic...he is a writer's dream. And, he can work with multi-style opponents, and still look the part. Edge sucks. His spear sucks. He cant sell. He doesnt have a finisher. He cant give a promo, hes still living off the fact he f*cked Matt Hardy's fiance...he sucks. Best heel? Jericho's work in the past 6 months dwarfs anything Edge has ever done. He needed a 2 year long fued with the Undertaker to get him over. And thats only because it was The Undertaker.

Edge's return gets a bigger pop than Cena's at SS, despite the fact that it was Cena's home town and he's a heel.

Yeah, he sucks. :roll:

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

Edge's heel promo's are fantastic WTF your a TNA mark and can't except the fact WWE is better

Im a wrestling mark. I watch WWE, TNA, ROH, alot of Japanese stuff, alot of CMLL and AAA aswell as being a massive Dragon Gate fan. LOL@ you trying to pigeon hole me when you havent even bothered to do any research about which products I liek and dislike, I have been one of the most critical of TNA on this forum.

ROH > WWE and TNA put togetehr. The booking's better, the wrestling's better, the characters are better and the crowd interaction is better.

Edge's promos are not fantastic. You really need to school yourself on what a good promo is. He's the top heel yeah? Well compare his promo to say, this one from Raven from fricken 1995/1996 in ECW...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXadyQrQ8U8

 

[mozza91]

Im a wrestling mark. I watch WWE, TNA, ROH, alot of Japanese stuff, alot of CMLL and AAA aswell as being a massive Dragon Gate fan. LOL@ you trying to pigeon hole me when you havent even bothered to do any research about which products I liek and dislike, I have been one of the most critical of TNA on this forum.

ROH > WWE and TNA put togetehr. The booking's better, the wrestling's better, the characters are better and the crowd interaction is better.

Edge's promos are not fantastic. You really need to school yourself on what a good promo is. He's the top heel yeah? Well compare his promo to say, this one from Raven from fricken 1995/1996 in ECW...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXadyQrQ8U8

ECW is not wrestling Hardcore wrestling is a f**king joke I will not watch some pathetic drug addict like Raven trying to cut a promo
The wrestling is better in ROH I'll give you that Bryan Danielson is easily the best wrestler in the world,but I woulldn't say the characters are better.
Also Edge is alot better than Christian(who will always be a upper mid carder at best) Christian is very good but Edge is at another level

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

Raven is one of the best minds in the history of professional wrestling. He knew how to work a match, tell a story and cut awesome promos. he was a unique character and was fricken amazing when he was at his best. You call him a pathetic drug addict, yet you love HBK to death...hmmm

ECW's in ring product wasnt always the best, Ill give you that. But ECW put out the BEST characters and the BEST booking you will ever see. Bar none. Raven/Sandman fued was incredible, as was teh Raven/Dreamer fued. Taz/Sabu was crazy, and Van Dam's reign as TV Champ was crazy aswell. And when you think about the talent that has come out of ECW and gone on to bigger and better things, like Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko, Jericho, Raven, The Dudleyz, Pillman, Foley, STONE COLD Steve Austin (not the Hollywood Blonde WCW character he played), RVD, Taz, Sabu, Rey Misterio jr, Psycosis, Juventud Guerrera, Saturn, Tajiri, Super Crazy etc, they really had a knack for discovering great talents and gioving them oppertunities.

And hardcore wrestling a joke? Please. When its done right, hardcore wrestling can be some of the most entertaining out there. When its taken to excess, with promotions like CZW, or watered down into nothing more than a joke like WWF/E and WCW, then I agree it is pathetic. But you cannot tell me, being the wrestling fan that you are, that the Mexican Death Match between Rey Misterio Jr and Psycosis in the mid 90s in ECW wasnt one of the most entertaining matches you've ever seen.

And ROH > WWE in terms of characters. Mcguiness, Adam Pearce, Larry Sweeney, Jacobs, Necro Butcher, the Briscoes, Danielson, Aries, they all have great in ring ability and great personas. They dont need to be given garbage gimmicks, or vanilla "No Gimmick Needed" personalities. Nor do they need to juice themselves up just to become a jobber.