Gould leaving Penrith

[Pomoz]

Gould’s position at the club became untenable the minute big Dave took it upon himself to bring Ivan Cleary back to the club.

I’m surprised it has taken this long to get to where we now with Gould exiting the club.

I’ve said for a long time now while not all Gould’s decision were perfect, particularly the hiring of Anthony Griffin, he for the most part turned the club around, got it in good shape, but sadly I’m not sure recent events are in the clubs best interests even if Gus had to go.

When a position is made redundant it is my understanding of Industrial Relations the position no longer exists therefore we cannot simply hire another person as GM of Football because the position no longer exists.

The club has seen fit to effectively hand full autonomy to Ivan Cleary for all things football which is concerning particularly given many are of the belief he is not even a great coach.

Whether you liked Gus or not a lot of his time was spent ensuring our pathway development in terms of our juniors and scouting networks in regional NSW (and other areas) were strong. I fear this is a key area which may be a risk with the new structure and there will be no one to drive the on going process or talent identification.

A lot of our fans have got there wish and Gus is gone. I will wait and see with interest how this sorry mess takes us in the coming years.

Kilkenny, the rule about a position not being redundant if it replaced is mired in taxation law and some EBA's/AWA's or Union awards. Basically there is concessional taxation for redundancy payments and the ATO will disallow the concession if your are replaced because "you aren't really redundant". The concessional tax was abused by employees to get a payout tax free. As for EBA's et al, if two parties agree to the redundancy then it is unlikely that they will restrict somebody being made redundant. In any case, the chances that Gould's agreement is covered by an EBA or such like, is virtually nil.

 

[Buzzard Breath]

Latest 6 tackles with Gus

https://omny.fm/shows/six-tackles-with-gus/round-7

 

[darkbloom]

With the gaming machines, did we sell the rights forever, or did we just sell 5 years of rights for an up-front payment? If we just sold five years worth of rights that is more understandable (and hopefully that is what the deal was) - and was largely about bringing future revenue forward.

Also check this out in last year's annual report under the section headed 'Transactions with related parties'

During the year the Group transacted with Abcoe Distributors Pty Ltd through sponsorship and the purchase of stock. These transactions represented arm's length transactions under normal commercial trading terms. David O'Neill is regarded as having an interest.

During the year, the Group transacted with Hix Electrical under normal commercial trading terms for electrical, plumbing and fire certification works to Panthers Clubs. Ian Hicks is regarded as having an interest.
​

Abcoe Distributors Pty Ltd is a company owned by David O'Neill and Hix Electrical is owned by Ian Hicks.

In the case of public companies, The Corporations Act prohibits related party transactions of this kind without the transaction being put to shareholders for a vote.

The same prohibitions do not apply in the context of Registered Clubs. However, Member approval is still required unless certain exceptions apply, one of those exceptions is that the Financial Benefit to the related party would be reasonable if the Club and the Related party were dealing on ‘arms length terms'. That appears to be the exception that the Club is relying upon for these two transactions.

However, even assuming the transactions were 'arm's length transactions under normal commercial trading terms', there is no disclosure of the value of the transactions. You could have an arm's length transaction that still happens to be for $5 million worth of work. It would be fascinating to find out what the value of these contracts were. Maybe we can get a journalist interested.

The original deal was for 5 years. These sorts of deals often are extended after they mature because they can be quite difficult to roll back.

I thought I saw the amounts of those transactions. With Abcoe I thought I saw something in the vicinity of $30k. With Hix I think it was around $600k - I imagine that had something to do with the carpark construction.

The regulations around related parties in Registered Clubs are somewhat more strenuous than most other entities. I am certain these ones have been done properly. However the disposal of some assets has been a bit "nudge nudge" - no apparent, visible related parties.

 

[Kilkenny]

Kilkenny, the rule about a position not being redundant if it replaced is mired in taxation law and some EBA's/AWA's or Union awards. Basically there is concessional taxation for redundancy payments and the ATO will disallow the concession if your are replaced because "you aren't really redundant". The concessional tax was abused by employees to get a payout tax free. As for EBA's et al, if two parties agree to the redundancy then it is unlikely that they will restrict somebody being made redundant. In any case, the chances that Gould's agreement is covered by an EBA or such like, is virtually nil.

The point I am making is if Gould’s leaving the club is due to his position being redundant we can’t turn around and hire a new General Manager of Football tomorrow, next week or for the foreseeable future. Gould is leaving the club but so is his position.

 

[Pomoz]

To suggest the culture was rotten to the core following 1991 demonstrates a shallowness of understanding. In fact during that period the club showed a resilience that few could have endured. Definitely there was little to celebrate on the field in that period ... interestingly Gus left when things started to get tough and he was promised an open cheque book at his next employer.

I don't need a detailed understanding of 91. If the culture was good, we would have bounced back. We wouldn't have had the terrible accident and the arrest of our NSW centre some years later. The facts are the club spectacularly nose dived after the 91 grand final and didn't make the finals for 5 years straight, lost its best player in Brad Fittler and then got the wooden spoon in 2001. 9th, 12th, 8th, 14th, 15th. A club with a good culture bounces back from the tragic events of 2002. Resilience might have been shown off the field, because it was such an awful time. But meanwhile, on the field and in the junior development pathways, our usual lack of success continued. We did not bounce back, we slipped into a pattern of mediocrity briefly interrupted by 2003. This was made to look even more of a fluke when you consider what happened afterwards. 4th, 10th, 12th, 16th, 12th, 11th.

Don't get me wrong Darkbloom. The people who planned the 1991 and 2003 premierships deserve praise. But what they failed to do on each occasion is build a strong culture at the club that builds sustained success. We fluke a group of juniors who are good, enjoy success, implode and then start the whole thing again.

 

[forby]

the Culture of being a ‘permanent’ finalist is what is being built now. Winning a premiership is a small part of this.

 

[Kilkenny]

So many on here are only too willing to ignore Gus Gould’s achievements in turning this club around but at the same time ignore the sordid history of other clubs since 2011.

The Sharks surely top the list for the obvious and should have been stripped of there premiership.

The Eels blatant cheating of the salary cap.

We complain about our mismanagement of our salary cap but I would suggest the Bulldogs, Tigers and Sea Eagles would have us well and truly covered there.

The Dragons CEO in Doust even more hated by the clubs own fans than Phil Gould.

Last but not least Andrew Gee from the Broncos walks away from there financial irregularities by resigning all good there because the Broncos are untouchable.

We had a enjoyed a period of more wins than losses without a premiership, but successful seasons all things considered and to many achievements overall which we should be proud off and far too many to list here.

It is a sad ending for Gus for all the positives he has delivered for our club far in excess of the negatives.

Good luck if you think the new regime is going to deliver us the sustained long term success and premiership which apparently is the only measure of success.

 

[darkbloom]

I don't need a detailed understanding of 91. If the culture was good, we would have bounced back. We wouldn't have had the terrible accident and the arrest of our NSW centre some years later. The facts are the club spectacularly nose dived after the 91 grand final and didn't make the finals for 5 years straight, lost its best player in Brad Fittler and then got the wooden spoon in 2001. 9th, 12th, 8th, 14th, 15th. A club with a good culture bounces back from the tragic events of 2002. Resilience might have been shown off the field, because it was such an awful time. But meanwhile, on the field and in the junior development pathways, our usual lack of success continued. We did not bounce back, we slipped into a pattern of mediocrity briefly interrupted by 2003. This was made to look even more of a fluke when you consider what happened afterwards. 4th, 10th, 12th, 16th, 12th, 11th.

Don't get me wrong Darkbloom. The people who planned the 1991 and 2003 premierships deserve praise. But what they failed to do on each occasion is build a strong culture at the club that builds sustained success. We fluke a group of juniors who are good, enjoy success, implode and then start the whole thing again.

When you plan something and it works it generally is not considered a fluke.

Yes, while ever position on the table is used as the sole metric these figures are stark.

don't know what tragic events were experienced in 2002 - I am assuming you are referring to 1992. This was one event. There were certainly other impact and periods of change and growth.

I find it very interesting that you believe there is a strong culture at the club right now - I'd be interested to know what causes that belief. Was there a strong culture last year.

 

[TheFrog]

We have enjoyed a 31% success rate of making the finals over our glorious history. Under Gus that has been 50%.

If that is the measure, Hook should still be here.

 

[Luke Bowden]

If that is the measure, Hook should still be here.

I’m far from sold on Ivan, but I’m glade to see the back of Hook.

 

[franklin2323]

So many on here are only too willing to ignore Gus Gould’s achievements in turning this club around but at the same time ignore the sordid history of other clubs since 2011.

The Sharks surely top the list for the obvious and should have been stripped of there premiership.

The Eels blatant cheating of the salary cap.

We complain about our mismanagement of our salary cap but I would suggest the Bulldogs, Tigers and Sea Eagles would have us well and truly covered there.

The Dragons CEO in Doust even more hated by the clubs own fans than Phil Gould.

Last but not least Andrew Gee from the Broncos walks away from there financial irregularities by resigning all good there because the Broncos are untouchable.

We had a enjoyed a period of more wins than losses without a premiership, but successful seasons all things considered and to many achievements overall which we should be proud off and far too many to list here.

It is a sad ending for Gus for all the positives he has delivered for our club far in excess of the negatives.

Good luck if you think the new regime is going to deliver us the sustained long term success and premiership which apparently is the only measure of success.

No one ignores it but you can't ignore the bad because it is Gus. To me the last 3 years we have been treading water. Maybe Gus took us as far as he could.

Matt Cameron seems pretty switched on. The Board while having limited Footy Knowledge are successful in their chosen field.

So who knows maybe fresh set of eyes will help

 

[Abacus]

With the reported poor performance and alleged precarious position (sans 5 years of gaming revenue) of Panthers leagues club, does anyone else have an uneasy feeling that the Perth Panthers may be back on the table?

 

[Kilkenny]

No one ignores it but you can't ignore the bad because it is Gus. To me the last 3 years we have been treading water. Maybe Gus took us as far as he could.

Matt Cameron seems pretty switched on. The Board while having limited Footy Knowledge are successful in their chosen field.

So who knows maybe fresh set of eyes will help

Well you selectively prefer to ignore his greater accomplishments particularly given the evidence of far greater failures on the part of those in charge of the clubs as I have indicated above.

How can you possibly reconcile the actions of those in charge of Sharks and what they were complicit in as opposed to our GM who at worst made questionable decisions around certain well documented appointments.

You bang on relentlessly about management of our salary cap when half the NRL clubs have been caught out cheating or been an absolute basket case ie Bulldogs and or not held accountable because of who they are ie Broncos.

Do you even know who Matt Cameron is? Please enlighten us with your knowledge of his CV given you know how switched on he is?

 

[franklin2323]

With the reported poor performance and alleged precarious position (sans 5 years of gaming revenue) of Panthers leagues club, does anyone else have an uneasy feeling that the Perth Panthers may be back on the table?

No. I'd be concerned if I couldn't see the development being built. Short term priorities have shifted but they still own the assests atm

 

[BxTom]

With the reported poor performance and alleged precarious position (sans 5 years of gaming revenue) of Panthers leagues club, does anyone else have an uneasy feeling that the Perth Panthers may be back on the table?

Panthers have not gone entirely without, they opted for a up front cash payment (of possibly lesser value) up front. That could work being a case of money's worth more now than later in many ways.

 

[TheFrog]

I’m far from sold on Ivan, but I’m glade to see the back of Hook.

Benny would have been good. Imagine being able to tell the refs what to do!!

 

[Panther Pete]

NRL 360 just reported we are currently paying 3 coaches - Ivan, Hook and Madge. I didn’t realise we were topping up the Tigers.

 

[Bob]

NRL 360 just reported we are currently paying 3 coaches - Ivan, Hook and Madge. I didn’t realise we were topping up the Tigers.

We aren’t Ivan paid $150k to buy out his contract, we’re paying it but taking from Ivan’s pay

 

[TheFrog]

NRL 360 just reported we are currently paying 3 coaches - Ivan, Hook and Madge. I didn’t realise we were topping up the Tigers.

Why would we be paying Madge?

 

[darkbloom]

No. I'd be concerned if I couldn't see the development being built. Short term priorities have shifted but they still own the assests atm

No they don't. The residential development site was sold outright for $8.5m - they do not own it. There may be some revenue arrangement with the sale of units. I have not checked what happened with The Royce.