Gould leaving Penrith

[Pomoz]

When you plan something and it works it generally is not considered a fluke.

Yes, while ever position on the table is used as the sole metric these figures are stark.

don't know what tragic events were experienced in 2002 - I am assuming you are referring to 1992. This was one event. There were certainly other impact and periods of change and growth.

I find it very interesting that you believe there is a strong culture at the club right now - I'd be interested to know what causes that belief. Was there a strong culture last year.

Yes I did mean 1992, typo. It isn't just the culture that breeds success and I should have expanded on that because over the last 40 years beside the drinking, boozy culture and acceptance of mediocrity there were many other things not in place. For example, a development pathway with coaches and mentors that can turn juniors into first graders, not fluke a few every few years. Management of the salary cap. Having a plan to sign and develop players through all the grades and identifying where there are gaps. Remember how we out-sourced reserve grade in a moment of genius? How many rep players have we developed?

Do I think we had a strong culture last year? Yes, in the football team. That's why we won games in the dying minutes and had a never say die attitude. We also continued to bring through juniors who would hit the ground running. But is there a strong culture through the whole club that breeds success? Look at the board and you tell me.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

It's going to be an interesting season off the field. Let's hope the style of play on it becomes just as interesting. Not sure I can stomach 5 years of Cleary-ball if we don't win something or come very close to it.

 

[franklin2323]

Yes I did mean 1992, typo. It isn't just the culture that breeds success and I should have expanded on that because over the last 40 years beside the drinking, boozy culture and acceptance of mediocrity there were many other things not in place. For example, a development pathway with coaches and mentors that can turn juniors into first graders, not fluke a few every few years. Management of the salary cap. Having a plan to sign and develop players through all the grades and identifying where there are gaps. Remember how we out-sourced reserve grade in a moment of genius? How many rep players have we developed?

Do I think we had a strong culture last year? Yes, in the football team. That's why we won games in the dying minutes and had a never say die attitude. We also continued to bring through juniors who would hit the ground running. But is there a strong culture through the whole club that breeds success? Look at the board and you tell me.

So the only person that can run the club is a 61 year old that is juggling another fulltime job?

 

[ashton]

No they don't. The residential development site was sold outright for $8.5m - they do not own it. There may be some revenue arrangement with the sale of units. I have not checked what happened with The Royce.

Brian Fletcher said today that the club has just borrowed 100 million dollars to built a hotel and convention centre. How will they ever pay off the loan? How much revenue and profit will it generate.......its a big gamble especially in today economy.
They received a final payment of about 2.5 million dollars for the Royce according to the annual report

 

[franklin2323]

Brian Fletcher said today that the club has just borrowed 100 million dollars to built a hotel and convention centre. How will they ever pay off the loan? How much revenue and profit will it generate.......its a big gamble especially in today economy.
They received a final payment of about 2.5 million dollars for the Royce according to the annual report

With the airport and the growth out west coming could be a boom. Need to do something pokie money will dry up one day.

The govt tipped in $24m too. So must be a decent business plan

 

[darkbloom]

Brian Fletcher said today that the club has just borrowed 100 million dollars to built a hotel and convention centre. How will they ever pay off the loan? How much revenue and profit will it generate.......its a big gamble especially in today economy.
They received a final payment of about 2.5 million dollars for the Royce according to the annual report

Yes, my understanding is that they intend to build and operate the new hotel - in-house. Certainly goes against conventional wisdom. It would make more sense for a club to run its own gaming and outsource hotel operations. But, damn they may be right.

Of course there is also the new conference / entertainment centre that is also in an early phae of development -I think that is what the promised government contribution is for.

 

[darkbloom]

Yes I did mean 1992, typo. It isn't just the culture that breeds success and I should have expanded on that because over the last 40 years beside the drinking, boozy culture and acceptance of mediocrity there were many other things not in place. For example, a development pathway with coaches and mentors that can turn juniors into first graders, not fluke a few every few years. Management of the salary cap. Having a plan to sign and develop players through all the grades and identifying where there are gaps. Remember how we out-sourced reserve grade in a moment of genius? How many rep players have we developed?

Do I think we had a strong culture last year? Yes, in the football team. That's why we won games in the dying minutes and had a never say die attitude. We also continued to bring through juniors who would hit the ground running. But is there a strong culture through the whole club that breeds success? Look at the board and you tell me.

I look at the whole picture and I say the success on the field has been masking some very deep problems throughout the organisation some of which have been created by Gus, some of which are a legacy of previous adminsitration and some are problems of having poor quality personnel in key positions.

One of the biggest problems is using on field results as the prime, often only, measure of success. This causes a disproportionate investment in that product - a product that can't turn a profit even at its most successful, and therefore cannot be sustainable on its own.

It will be interesting to see how things develop in the next few years. Gus is very very smart and I believe he has got out because he knows how tough it is going to get - he won't have to face it and he won't has his status as saviour tarnished in any way. Yet what is to come will be his legacy.

Interesting comment about the boozy culture -being there over the last 40 years - looking at the last 6 or 7 years is not so pretty. Personally I think you are exaggerating the past problems and minimising the successes while trying to justify some serious problems that you know exist now but enamoured with Gus to see that he could be a problem.

Probably I have your problem in reverse.

And ne'er the twain shall meet.

 

[franklin2323]

Yes, my understanding is that they intend to build and operate the new hotel - in-house. Certainly goes against conventional wisdom. It would make more sense for a club to run its own gaming and outsource hotel operations. But, damn they may be right.

Of course there is also the new conference / entertainment centre that is also in an early phae of development -I think that is what the promised government contribution is for.

Yeah time will tell. If it works will be a great thing

 

[The Realist]

With the airport and the growth out west coming could be a boom. Need to do something pokie money will dry up one day.

The govt tipped in $24m too. So must be a decent business plan

I have seen several, state government backed businesses go down, Australian Magnesium Corp is one such case from a while back. Government backed doesn't mean shit because governments don't know jack shit.

 

[franklin2323]

I have seen several, state government backed businesses go down, Australian Magnesium Corp is one such case from a while back. Government backed doesn't mean shit because governments don't know jack shit.

No it is gamble that is for sure but the one in Darling Harbour goes well. No reason this can't either. Can always sell it and the hotel if it is a flop I guess but better to go for it than sit back and miss the boat

 

[hindy111]

Wade Graham left us at the end of 2010, before Gus arrived. He was a bad loss. Jennings was rocks and diamonds for us, and expensive at that. He still is. He's had a couple of good games this year but what about last year and the year before that. He was the perfect candidate for moving on when the club had cap issues. Moylan had a blue with the coach but the crux of it was he had a poor attitude to training and rehab here. He's a talented lad though but could be so much better. You didn't mention Lewis. He was stripped of the captaincy for reasons unknown to me and decided he wanted out. Another bad loss. Mick Gordon too.

MJ was awesome in 2017 and poor in 2018.
My point is a lot of these juniors the Gould flapped his wings about are nothing more then average NRL players. Kikau was a great pick up by Phil . But of the juniors only 3 I rate. JFH,DWZ amd Blake. The rest I wouldn't be fussed about.How many juniors would of come into the system had Phil and not arrived? Has anyone been produced who can reach the same level as these guys did Lewis,Gower,MJ,Puletua,Pritchard,Graheme?

 

[Pomoz]

So the only person that can run the club is a 61 year old that is juggling another fulltime job?

I don't believe I implied that and certainly didn't say it specifically, so come on, be serious. However, Cleary is now the senior football person at the club and the board overseeing him are his mate, a local accountant and lawyer, a developer who has related party dealings with the club and an ex-player. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[tripster]

The thing that makes it clear that there is more to Gus leaving than Gus's spin (if that wasn't obvious) is the fact that only last year he signed a new 5 year deal. At the point in time he signed that deal (unless he was being particularly cunning) both he and the club were anticipating that a role of his kind would be required for the next 5 years and that there was still a road ahead of him.

Now, less than a year later, he is saying that's all changed and his role is no longer required. The spin is that his role is no longer required because all of the work that he needed to do at the club has been done, etc etc.

The length of the contract and what he says now simply don't stack up.

I am surprised that no one in the media has put that question to Gus yet - "How can it be the case that your role become redundant less than a year after you signed a new 5 year contract? Wasn't it obvious to you at the time you signed the contract that the need for your services would soon cease? If so, why did you sign a 5 year deal?"

 

[billypilgrimnz]

Its pretty obvious that Gould is leaving because he did not agree with the Cleary appointment and they will not have a workable relationship. Everything else is just spin.

 

[franklin2323]

I don't believe I implied that and certainly didn't say it specifically, so com on, be serious. However, Cleary is now the senior football person at the club and the board overseeing him are his mate, a local accountant and lawyer, a developer who has related party dealings with the club and an ex-player. What could possibly go wrong?

Matt Cameron was at Parra for 15 years. Been here since 2012.

Of course Brandy is the deputy Chairman.

So it isn't like it is just businessmen on the board

How many footy type guys are on Roosters or Storm boards?

 

[Pomoz]

I look at the whole picture and I say the success on the field has been masking some very deep problems throughout the organisation some of which have been created by Gus, some of which are a legacy of previous adminsitration and some are problems of having poor quality personnel in key positions.

One of the biggest problems is using on field results as the prime, often only, measure of success. This causes a disproportionate investment in that product - a product that can't turn a profit even at its most successful, and therefore cannot be sustainable on its own.

It will be interesting to see how things develop in the next few years. Gus is very very smart and I believe he has got out because he knows how tough it is going to get - he won't have to face it and he won't has his status as saviour tarnished in any way. Yet what is to come will be his legacy.

Interesting comment about the boozy culture -being there over the last 40 years - looking at the last 6 or 7 years is not so pretty. Personally I think you are exaggerating the past problems and minimising the successes while trying to justify some serious problems that you know exist now but enamoured with Gus to see that he could be a problem.

Probably I have your problem in reverse.

And ne'er the twain shall meet.

Our fundamental point of difference is really about how you see "the product". The product comes first and the club operations second. The only caveat being that the licensed club must be successful to be able to support the football team. How much investment required should only be limited by affordability so it doesn't damage the club operations going forward. The purpose of the Panthers licensed club is not to become the best in the world, it is to support the football team. No football team and there would be no Panthers club. Just a grass field with houses or shops. No Roger Cowan years, no Cables, nothing. That is why it is the main measure of success and why based on that, the club has been average at best.

As for being enamoured with Gus, I am grateful for him making the last few years exciting and competitive, something which has been missing since 2004. I have no doubt there still exists a number of problems at the club. A quick look at the quality of the board will show that we may have difficult times ahead.

Today, Cleary told the board not to replace Gus. Who is going to manage the contracts, do contract negotiations, monitor the salary cap and identify talent outside the Panthers juniors? Who is going to talk to sponsors? Who is going to do the work that Gus was doing? Whether you agree he is good or not isn't relevant, he was doing work that needed to be done, who is going to do that work. Ivan's mate?

 

[Pomoz]

Matt Cameron was at Parra for 15 years. Been here since 2012.

Of course Brandy is the deputy Chairman.

So it isn't like it is just businessmen on the board

How many footy type guys are on Roosters or Storm boards?

I don't think we need any more footy players on the board, far from it. Some executives who have experience outside of the Penrith locale would be good. Executives who don't do related party dealings. Executives who have been part of large global organisations. Executives who have experience in large hospitality businesses.

The football experience needs to be in football operations. Cleary is now the senior person and lo and behold doesn't want a GM football in the club. Of course he doesn't. He doesn't want anybody overseeing him or challenging his authority. Who is going to do the work Gus was doing?

 

[Luke Bowden]

Benny would have been good. Imagine being able to tell the refs what to do!!

I don’t think he was the Answer either. Benny is at the end of his Career, we need a coach willing to put the hard yards in.

Hopefully Ivan gets it done.

 

[darkbloom]

[

No football team and there would be no Panthers club. Just a grass field with houses or shops. No Roger Cowan years, no Cables, nothing. That is why it is the main measure of success and why based on that, the club has been average at best.


Today, Cleary told the board not to replace Gus. Who is going to manage the contracts, do contract negotiations, monitor the salary cap and identify talent outside the Panthers juniors? Who is going to talk to sponsors? Who is going to do the work that Gus was doing? Whether you agree he is good or not isn't relevant, he was doing work that needed to be done, who is going to do that work. Ivan's mate?

That first paragraph is simply not right true. Had the licensed club not existed the football club would still be playing in the lower tier competition. In fact had it been left to the football club it would have closed in around 1963 or 64 when it could not pay the players. There were multiple instances when the football club was saved by the fact the licensed club operation was run well.

It would be interesting how much patience would be given to a financially draining football club if the Board had the make-up you suggest in another post - all professional, global, high-flying businessmen. The football club might quickly find itself looking for investors.

It seems it was Gus who recommended the redundancy in his position - so his own assessment is that there is not sufficient work for him to be engaged. He must think it is covered. If he had anything at all to do with growth in revenue generation he failed miserably at all levels.

I too think it is absurd but I think this separation is couched in those terms in order to maximise the payout Gus receives.

I don't hold any optimism at all for the post-Gus era, I have no confidence in the current management/board makeup - but then again I think it is Gus that has created the foundations for the future, and I believe those foundations are worse than shaky.

 

[franklin2323]

I don't think we need any more footy players on the board, far from it. Some executives who have experience outside of the Penrith locale would be good. Executives who don't do related party dealings. Executives who have been part of large global organisations. Executives who have experience in large hospitality businesses.

The football experience needs to be in football operations. Cleary is now the senior person and lo and behold doesn't want a GM football in the club. Of course he doesn't. He doesn't want anybody overseeing him or challenging his authority. Who is going to do the work Gus was doing?

To be fair Gus has only just said he was going a few days so may still happen