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Gould leaving Penrith

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,331
Bennett or Jesus can't teach the team to not give penalties on tackle 4, or to hold the ball.
A coach can improve discipline.

No coach is likely to have fixed Edwards dropsies or Mansours fear of winger duties etc. But team discipline as a whole is very much fixable by a coach.

We definitely need roster tweaks aswell. Sadly we have a few highly paid players that aren't going to be able to deliver the quality of football we need from them. Injuries and age caught up to them earlier than we would have hoped.
 

Blade23

Juniors
Messages
1,700
The power struggle is over and Cleary has won for now.
Word is with his neck on the line he wanted full control over recruitment and retentions to do it 'his way', with Gould's role to be diminished even further.
IC was getting sick of Gould's strong opinions on team tactics too and wanted to do it his way without interference. The board agreed knowing Gould would likely leave.
In Gould 's eyes his role was pretty much redundant.
No point staying around without much say or power.
For fear of losing Nathan IC will be given full control and plenty of time to succeed.
We are headed for interesting times.
 

TeamSatan

Juniors
Messages
1,121
I would like to thank Gus for coming to Penrith and doing so many good things.

Remember he came to fix us because the place was a rabble, GWS was starting out and had the funds as well as the propaganda machine to kill rugby league in the west.
Now the place is going quite well.
Let’s see if it reverts back to the bad old days.
 
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mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,331
The power struggle is over and Cleary has won for now.
Word is with his neck on the line he wanted full control over recruitment and retentions to do it 'his way', with Gould's role to be diminished even further.
IC was getting sick of Gould's strong opinions on team tactics too and wanted to do it his way without interference. The board agreed knowing Gould would likely leave.
In Gould 's eyes his role was pretty much redundant.
No point staying around without much say or power.
For fear of losing Nathan IC will be given full control and plenty of time to succeed.
We are headed for interesting times.
It will be interesting to see who Ivan moves on and who he targets to fill in our roster.

At Tigers he made some smart buys but some very dud ones too. But they were more desperate at the time than we should be.

Hopefully RCG is on the chopping block. I love him and would hate to see him destroying teams in another jersey. But at the moment hes not doing it in ours and is easily our worst value for money player.
 

Abacus

Juniors
Messages
2,128
The power struggle is over and Cleary has won for now.
Word is with his neck on the line he wanted full control over recruitment and retentions to do it 'his way', with Gould's role to be diminished even further.
IC was getting sick of Gould's strong opinions on team tactics too and wanted to do it his way without interference. The board agreed knowing Gould would likely leave.
In Gould 's eyes his role was pretty much redundant.
No point staying around without much say or power.
For fear of losing Nathan IC will be given full control and plenty of time to succeed.
We are headed for interesting times.
In other words, Dave's nuts were in his stomach having gone rogue to bring his mate back for poor performances to date.

Dave will give his mate all the time in the world to justify his appointment. So 5 years of Dave's mate is now certain (probably with an extension after 3 years).

I can understand the coach not wanting interference from Gus, but not even wanting opinions (strong or otherwise) reeks of a coach under pressure. Most places I've worked you at least seek opinions as you're often not the smartest person in the room.

As you say, interesting times ahead.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,331
Regardless of my thoughts on Ivan's skills. The coach should get the roster he wants
True. But only to an extent.

I highly doubt Gus ever forced players on his coaches. He had Hooks back when Hook didn't get along with Matt... so I think it would largely have been a non issue roster wise.

Team tactics etc. Would be where the issue really was.
 

Abacus

Juniors
Messages
2,128
It will be interesting to see who Ivan moves on and who he targets to fill in our roster.

At Tigers he made some smart buys but some very dud ones too. But they were more desperate at the time than we should be.
The coach burned bridges with his move to Panthers too. Interesting to see whether that has an effect on the club's recruitment.
 

Abacus

Juniors
Messages
2,128
No but the coach should have a seat at the table. He shouldn't know what players are on but should have a say over the type of players. What positions money gets spent in etc
Yes, coach should have a seat at the table and ultimately be happy with the outcome i.e. no use bringing in a player the coach adamantly opposes.

Not sure you can divorce the monetary component from recruitment decisions. The first thing those at the table need to understand is what cap is available, from there what positions does the club need to target, then who is on the market. As the roster evolves more time gets spent on remaining cap space (trying to do more with less) so if the coach is at the table, he'll know what players are getting.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,331
No but the coach should have a seat at the table. He shouldn't know what players are on but should have a say over the type of players. What positions money gets spent in etc
Im 99% certain this would have been the case. If not that's pretty f**ked.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Yes, coach should have a seat at the table and ultimately be happy with the outcome i.e. no use bringing in a player the coach adamantly opposes.

Not sure you can divorce the monetary component from recruitment decisions. The first thing those at the table need to understand is what cap is available, from there what positions does the club need to target, then who is on the market. As the roster evolves more time gets spent on remaining cap space (trying to do more with less) so if the coach is at the table, he'll know what players are getting.

Depends. Lets say Dave says we have money for 3 min contract players. Ivan can then say we need backs or props. Then can go to whether we promote kids or get older guys etc. So the coach can have a say without knowing the ins and outs of it

then we get a whole 30 man squad Ivan will use then the same guys picked week after week regardless of performance.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Im 99% certain this would have been the case. If not that's pretty f**ked.

I think it was in his podcast when discussing how they decided to sack Hook. Say the committee and listed them were talking of players and stuff for 2019 and came up that Hook should be sacked. I will try to find the link
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
True. But only to an extent.

I highly doubt Gus ever forced players on his coaches. He had Hooks back when Hook didn't get along with Matt... so I think it would largely have been a non issue roster wise.

Team tactics etc. Would be where the issue really was.

either way...The coach is hired for tactics and stuff too no matter how shit they are. That is the coaches role. Gus was there to take action if they weren't working
 

darkbloom

Juniors
Messages
750
And so it ends in tears. When Gus came on board and started making changes I thought we had a chance to become the 'super club" we could have been over the 40 years, given the right leadership. We may have had success as a licensed business but that wasn't what the club should have been about and the football side of the club was pathetic given its resources. The board seemed only interested in building a bigger licensed club, rather than doing what it was set up for and that was to support the football team.

Now we will drift back into a little provincial club with the board hiring its mates and making poor decisions about the salary cap, coaches and junior development. If you thought 3 years of semis was "meh" because we didn't make the grand final, wait until you see what happens now with Dave and his mate. Watch it all unravel and see our juniors return to the mediocrity they were before Gus made changes to the pathways.

It is not Gus leaving that is the problem, it is the way he is leaving. If he left on his own terms we may have had the right handover process in place, but instead Gus is leaving with too many loose ends and nobody to do the work he has been doing.

The philosophy and actions of the Board have been upside down since the moment Don Feltis took over as Chairman. The role the Board have assigned themselves makes management almost untenable - it has been so for close on 10 years now. The recent Gould-Bennett / O'Neill- Cleary episode is just a single case in point.

The debacle that it is now, has been covered up by profligate spending in the football club financed by the sale of assets - profit generating assets that had been built up to ensure football could be securely financed into the future. The slide down from here - fi there is one and i think there will be - will partially be due to the incompetent and dumb Chairman/CEO combo- but more so to the fact that the spending will have to stop. I suspect Gus actually wants out because he is smart enough to know that the club is trading poorly, they have sold the gaming revenue for the next 5 years, there are few assets left to sell and the management team at club level is not a patch on its competitors.

Gould has done plenty when it comes to building player pathways, structures etc but he has nothing, zip, to building anything that resembles revenue / profit generation in the football club. Don't say it wasn't his job - his title was GENERAL MANAGER - Football. Jesus, even their spruiking about record memberships was baseless given that some 50% of memberships were freebies.

Gus should be given credit where it is due but to suggest that he is, was, or could be some sort of saviour is over the top - especially when looking at the club beyond what happens around the field and the players.

And if you look at the history of our club - there was a massive change in 1984. A plan was put in place at the time - it was a 5 year plan, the plan was to have 5 of our juniors playing for Australian in 5 years. That was eiether achieved or very close. By 1991 - a little shorter than the amount of time Gus has had - we have 3 semi-final appearances, 2 GF appearances and 1 premiership - without accumulating massive unsustainable losses. Perhaps we should return to the same sort of management principles that were in practice then.
 
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GongPanther

Referee
Messages
28,676
The philosophy and actions of the Board have been upside down since the moment Don Feltis took over as Chairman. The role the Board have assigned themselves makes management almost untenable - it has been so for close on 10 years now. The recent Gould-Bennett / O'Neill- Cleary episode is just a single case in point.

The debacle that it is now, has been covered up by profligate spending in the football club financed by the sale of assets - profit generating assets that had been built up to ensure football could be securely financed into the future. The slide down from here - fi there is one and i think there will be - will partially be due to the incompetent and dumb Chairman/CEO combo- but more so to the fact that the spending will have to stop. I suspect Gus actually wants out because he is smart enough to know that the club is trading poorly, they have sold the gaming revenue for the next 5 years, there are few assets left to sell and the management team at club level is not a patch on its competitors.

Gould has done plenty when it comes to building player pathways, structures etc but he has nothing, zip, to building anything that resembles generation in the football club. Don't say it wasn't his job - his title was GENERAL MANAGER - Football. Jesus, even their spruiking about record memberships was baseless given that some 50% of memberships were freebies.

Gus should be given credit where it is due but to suggest that he is, was, or could be some sort of saviour is over the top - especially when looking at the club beyond what happens around the field and the players.

And if you look at the history of our club - there was a massive change in 1984. A plan was put in place at the time - it was a 5 year plan, the plan was to have 5 of our juniors playing for Australian in 5 years. That was eiether achieved or very close. By 1991 - a little shorter than the amount of time Gus has had - we have 3 semi-final appearances, 2 GF appearances and 1 premiership - without accumulating massive unsustainable losses. Perhaps we should return to the same sort of management principles that were in practice then.
They have sold the gaming revenue for the next 5 years? Can you elaborate on this? Have they sold the income of the poker machines, and why would they do this?
 

darkbloom

Juniors
Messages
750
They have sold the gaming revenue for the next 5 years? Can you elaborate on this? Have they sold the income of the poker machines, and why would they do this?

Yes. Sold to Tabcorp - I think about 1 year ago. I believe they received an upfront payment for the 5 years (note: not confirmed). They did this for 2 reasons:

1. they wanted some cash, I believe it financed the undercover carpark - the carpark being another story itself but essentially it was built because it was perceived that a good gaming operation has this type of parking. So they sell off gaming to finance a structure that benefits the operation they just sold off.
2. they don't know how to operate a licensed club and thought they'd be better off handing the gaming operation over to an expert.

It is bizarre that a club like Panthers would do this. By the way, my understanding is that the club management team recommended rejecting the Tabcorp proposal.
 
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