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Nathan Cleary

Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,808
So have you figured out you have the next Chad?

Bigger chin, worse hair, looks good with Jimmy playing well.

Can direct a team around, backs up well, needs others to create really.

Make your tackles, kick well.

Nathan superior goalkicker for sure.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,574
I said it’s concerning, because it almost reads like he doesn’t ever expect to be that type of half. Despite my doubts he’d ever be an attacking half, I still held out a little hope. His statement pretty much knocks it on the head.

So, yes. I think we should all be concerned our highest paid player, who is a half, likely will never set up many tries.




I mean, a whole bunch of people have been in here saying he’ll eventually become an attacking half, yet the guy himself just admitted that’s probably not in his game.

Jesus. You are hearing what you want to hear so you can talk him down more. His comments are a very accurate description of who he is as a footy player that is all.

Anyone who thinks he can develop the kind of X factor and vision being discussed here is kidding themselves. That’s not his game, it’s never been his game and never will. He can improve his attacking game for sure but he’s never going to be that guy.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,080
So have you figured out you have the next Chad?

Bigger chin, worse hair, looks good with Jimmy playing well.

Can direct a team around, backs up well, needs others to create really.

Make your tackles, kick well.

Nathan superior goalkicker for sure.
He looked better with Carty at 6 tbh.
 

Panther_Daz

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,901
Anyone who thinks he can develop the kind of X factor and vision being discussed here is kidding themselves. That’s not his game, it’s never been his game and never will. He can improve his attacking game for sure but he’s never going to be that guy.

What @herbert henry1908 is saying is that there are people on here that do think he is going to be that guy.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,574
What @herbert henry1908 is saying is that there are people on here that do think he is going to be that guy.

Well that’s their opinion. I just don’t how you get “he’s never going to be an attacking half” from those comments? Do you think he’s not working on his game? He sees himself as a finished product? Of course he can develop his attacking game.

People are talking about Nathan and mentioning guys like Dce or even Brandy, Nathan is nothing like those players, he will never have that natural ability like they do. I’m glad Nathan is smart to realise it because if goes out trying to create and play the way a guy like dce does it will be a disaster.
 
Messages
21,875
Jesus. You are hearing what you want to hear so you can talk him down more. His comments are a very accurate description of who he is as a footy player that is all.

Anyone who thinks he can develop the kind of X factor and vision being discussed here is kidding themselves. That’s not his game, it’s never been his game and never will. He can improve his attacking game for sure but he’s never going to be that guy.

But there are people who think otherwise, they’ve continually told me to be patient, he’ll be a superstar...


I’m not hearing what I want to hear, it’s a reasonable interpretation of his statement that happens to back up what I’ve been saying for quite some time.



Fact is he’s paid superstar money, and he doesn’t have a superstar game. THATS CONCERNING
 
Messages
21,875
Well that’s their opinion. I just don’t how you get “he’s never going to be an attacking half” from those comments? Do you think he’s not working on his game? He sees himself as a finished product? Of course he can develop his attacking game.

People are talking about Nathan and mentioning guys like Dce or even Brandy, Nathan is nothing like those players, he will never have that natural ability like they do. I’m glad Nathan is smart to realise it because if goes out trying to create and play the way a guy like dce does it will be a disaster.


Because attacking halves create tries and line break assists on a regular basis.

No one is saying he can’t get a bit better, but he can’t reach the level of a true elite half. And he’s paid like an elite half.
 
Messages
21,875
So have you figured out you have the next Chad?

Bigger chin, worse hair, looks good with Jimmy playing well.

Can direct a team around, backs up well, needs others to create really.

Make your tackles, kick well.

Nathan superior goalkicker for sure.


Some know this, others are still in denial.
 
Messages
21,875
Gower was a great half back. Our last great half back and only just behind Greg Alexander as our all time best.

Gower was very good, not great. (Although I should clarify, he’s a great Panther, but in a wider context he’s not one of the great halves)

To be a great half you need to create points, and Gower had the exact same problem as Nathan. Great competitor, but not great at getting his backs across the line.

It’s no surprise our team went up a gear in attack after Preston Campbell arrived.
 
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Flashstep

Juniors
Messages
522
Nathan Cleary has his issues but I think a lot of people need to look at more contributing factors to why our attack is bad, it’s not bad because Nathan Cleary isn’t Shaun Johnson, it’s bad because there is literally no plan, unless of course you count passing to kikau and hope he barges over 4 players to score as a game plan. Even James Maloney, a proven creative half struggles massively in our system.

Our attacking coaches whoever they may be have a lot and I mean a lot to be held accountable for, we have no set plays, we refuse to use forwards as decoys, our forwards don’t even run good lines, there’s a reason why wingers don’t score much tries at Penrith, it’s not because they’re bad players or anything it’s because at other clubs a wingers job is to fall over the try line, when was the last time a Penrith winger ever did that because I seriously can’t remember, they usually have to score some freakish try in the corner.

As time goes by I think more and more people are realising how stupid it was to let Moylan go because with him we had sweeping plays and he always knew which pass to throw, go short or cut out 1 or 2 players, or throw the dummy and go himself, in today’s game a ball playing fullback is pretty much essential because of how slow the game is played at, they create an extra man In attack. In today’s game halves have almost become obsolete, you could count on one hand the amount of truly consistent top halves in today’s era, and none of them compare to the great halves of years past, I mean ffs Cooper Cronk will go down as an all time great even though he is a textbook 7/10 halfback, has a good kicking game and competes well, compared to Andrew Johns he’s not even in the same stratosphere.

A lot of people say we over paid Nathan Cleary and I agree with that, problem is nearly every single half today is not on anything near what they’re actually worth, the market for halves is a shit show, okay Nathan isn’t worth 900k, but is Milford worth 1 mill? Is Moses worth 850k? Hunt 1.2 mill? I could go on and on and on, truth is most halves are on around double what they’re actually worth, maybe we shouldn’t have paid Nathan more than 500 but I guarantee you there would be clubs out there that would have thrown a lot more at him because there is a shortage of halves out there.
 
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betcats

Referee
Messages
23,574
But there are people who think otherwise, they’ve continually told me to be patient, he’ll be a superstar...


I’m not hearing what I want to hear, it’s a reasonable interpretation of his statement that happens to back up what I’ve been saying for quite some time.



Fact is he’s paid superstar money, and he doesn’t have a superstar game. THATS CONCERNING

So that's the be all and end of all a half? Assists? Lol come on, stats do not tell the full story, they made you argue that young Mitchell pearce was a better footy player than current Mitchell pearce which is utter bullshit. You rely on stats too much.

Mitch Moses is leading the league for assists, is he a superstar? He always gets lots of assists, how often does his team finish in the top 8? You have literally made Nathans whole value about how many assists he gets, that is rubbish IMO.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,574
Also just to provide some context here Cleary finished 20th for try assists average in 2018. He averaged the same try assists per game as Maloney, Milford, Norman, Cody Walker and 0.1 behind Cherry Evans and Cameron Munster. Not brilliant numbers but hes setting them up as regularly as a number of noted "Attacking halves" at least for 2018.


See what I mean about his issues being overrated.
 
Messages
21,875
So that's the be all and end of all a half? Assists? Lol come on, stats do not tell the full story, they made you argue that young Mitchell pearce was a better footy player than current Mitchell pearce which is utter bullshit. You rely on stats too much.

Mitch Moses is leading the league for assists, is he a superstar? He always gets lots of assists, how often does his team finish in the top 8? You have literally made Nathans whole value about how many assists he gets, that is rubbish IMO.


I never said it was the be all and end all, but you need that part to be considered elite. That doesn’t mean Mitchell Moses is elite, because other parts of his game are rubbish.

You’re taking my statements out of
context. All my focus has been on wether Nathan is worth the money he’s being paid.

I actually think he’s a good NRL half (I’ve said this countless times), and I’d love if he played 10 years here. But not as the highest paid player on the team.
 
Messages
21,875
Also just to provide some context here Cleary finished 20th for try assists average in 2018. He averaged the same try assists per game as Maloney, Milford, Norman, Cody Walker and 0.1 behind Cherry Evans and Cameron Munster. Not brilliant numbers but hes setting them up as regularly as a number of noted "Attacking halves" at least for 2018.


See what I mean about his issues being overrated.

Can’t speak for others but Cherry Evans is the only one I’d consider elite at this point in time, Munster is close.

But Cherry Evans has had seasons where he’s put on 18-19 try assists. Most Nathan has had is 10.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,574
Can’t speak for others but Cherry Evans is the only one I’d consider elite at this point in time, Munster is close.

But Cherry Evans has had seasons where he’s put on 18-19 try assists. Most Nathan has had is 10.

That's a 17 game tally though, not a full season. DCE has also played in some very good teams, and he flat out has better vision then Nath there is no way around that.

Most of the above guys if not all are paid like elite halves.
 
Messages
21,875
That's a 17 game tally though, not a full season. DCE has also played in some very good teams, and he flat out has better vision then Nath there is no way around that.

Most of the above guys if not all are paid like elite halves.

I understand that, my point was you’re comparing that season to one of DCE’s worst seasons. That’s Nathan’s best average so far, it also one of DCE’s worst.


As for them being paid elite money, 4 are & 2 aren’t.

DCE, Munster, Maloney & Milford are.

Walker & Norman aren’t.

Milford is a disaster for the Bronocs on the money he’s on.

Someone like Maloney earned his money from past performances, others like Milford have been overrated.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,574
I understand that, my point was you’re comparing that season to one of DCE’s worst seasons. That’s Nathan’s best average so far, it also one of DCE’s worst.


As for them being paid elite money, 4 are & 2 aren’t.

DCE, Munster, Maloney & Milford are.

Walker & Norman aren’t.

Milford is a disaster for the Bronocs on the money he’s on.

Someone like Maloney earned his money from past performances, others like Milford have been overrated.

I just grabbed last year’s numbers for a bunch of halves but if you’re gonna be I’m comparing Clearys third season to DCEs eighth.

The gap between elite halves and Cleary is is not as big as is being made out in this thread that is for certain.

Also Cameron Munster might be the most elite half inthe game right now, he’d be in the top 3 halves chosen if you could start a side with anyone starting with a half.
 
Messages
21,875
I just grabbed last year’s numbers for a bunch of halves but if you’re gonna be I’m comparing Clearys third season to DCEs eighth.

The gap between elite halves and Cleary is is not as big as is being made out in this thread that is for certain.

Also Cameron Munster might be the most elite half inthe game right now, he’d be in the top 3 halves chosen if you could start a side with anyone starting with a half.


Let’s compare their first full season to each other then.

DCE - 19 try assists in 27 games

Nathan - 10 Try assists in 26 games


I’m not sure I ever talked about a gap, but I’d say if DCE is on $1 million per year, then Nathan is probably worth about $700k.

If Nathan was getting paid commensurate with his abilities or past performances, there’d be a lot less discussion in this thread.
 
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