2020 season

[Panther FIRE]

As it stands we’ve gone from the one man show in Gus Gould to a 10 man recruitment and retention committee and you think that is the way going forward.

Going to an 8 or 10 man committee is just about as bad as having one, part-time guy running the place. How are you supposed to get consensus with that many people wanting input.

I have to say that I am a fan of Capewell. I don't buy the story that we have significantly strengthened our squad for the future though. We could have done a lot better. The Cowboys and Rabbits have done really well in terms of bringing in/re-signing proven ability.

I do hope that I'm wrong. The 'Preparing the Panthers' puff pieces have been reasonably reassuring. Like many here I'm a long suffering tragic and can't wait to head out to Panthers Stadium in 2020. I'm looking forward to seeing Jack Hetherington, Shawn Blore and Spencer Leniu get first grade game time. I'm glad to see Soni Luke is back at the club too.

I read that Wayne are Richo are already not getting along. Might be time to bring Richo back to the Riff! A genuine, full-time sports administrator with a history of success running our operation. What an interesting idea. : )

 

[Pomoz]

The decision to practically promise Luai the 6 so not to lose him was done under the previous management. He has the talent but is very raw so on paper looks weak. Doesn’t always play that way he could be as good as everyone says Gus included.

What outside back did we miss out on? I agree we look light but so do many other sides. Naden or Crichton may lift and be the star we are after.

The thing that gives me confidence is this. 24 of our 30 man squad is off contract over the next 2 seasons.. when have we had flexibility like that? So should we struggle to fill the percieved holes then we can go to the market and get the talent.

Plan A would be this squad developing to be the best. Cap flexibility allows for Plan B, C etc to be put into action if need be. IMO that was where we failed under Gus. There was no room to cover if the likes of CHN etc didn’t keep improving

When you say "failed under Gus", what failure are you referring to? The four from five finals appearances? He didn't fail. You may disagree with his methods, but that is just an opinion. All I know is that Gus managed to move on players like Soward and Merrin when it was necessary and we seemed to keep recruiting good players from time to time. Idris, Soward, Merrin, Tamou, Api (the first time) and Peachey. Yes, he hired some clunkers as well, but that's recruitment. Even Bellamy hasn't made every recruit a winner. This talk of "failure" is not based on any evidence whatsoever. Up to the point he left we were 3 for 3, and we should judge what happens after he left to decide if the new committee is better. What do we think of it so far? Morecambe and Wise had a retort for that statement - "rubbish".

 

[franklin2323]

When you say "failed under Gus", what failure are you referring to? The four from five finals appearances? He didn't fail. You may disagree with his methods, but that is just an opinion. All I know is that Gus managed to move on players like Soward and Merrin when it was necessary and we seemed to keep recruiting good players from time to time. Idris, Soward, Merrin, Tamou, Api (the first time) and Peachey. Yes, he hired some clunkers as well, but that's recruitment. Even Bellamy hasn't made every recruit a winner. This talk of "failure" is not based on any evidence whatsoever. Up to the point he left we were 3 for 3, and we should judge what happens after he left to decide if the new committee is better. What do we think of it so far? Morecambe and Wise had a retort for that statement - "rubbish".

You don’t think 1 Prelim final in 8 years would seen as a failure? Even the much thought of juniors produced solid FG but nothing more.

We have 11 guys off contract this year. Only To’o is a must re-sign. So can recruit more if needed. 13 off contract for 2021. Again you don’t see that as a good thing as opposed to having the top 13 locked in long term based on potential other then results.

What the committee does is have board/Coaches on the same page. Which should result in no tunnel blow ups during trial games.

It also will see that if Wallace for example is close to x player. The rest will ensure that a decision isn’t made on decision.

As for how the new management is going too soon to say either way. Though we were 2-6 when Gus left. So on the field better.

No long term deals is good. Got a GF winning hooker. Double GF winning current NZ prop. QLD 18th man who has played big games.

So a good start. Don’t get me wrong not forgetting the good Gus did but was time for a new direction... Whether they take the side to where it should be time will tell

 

[Kilkenny]

The whole long term contract is really irrelevant given there not worth the paper there written on. Gus never had a problem releasing guys early and neither has the new regime who released three pretty decent players this season albeit there were probably valid reasons for all of them.

The board brought Ivan in on a five year deal which is farcical.

Despite our mid season winning streak the footy we played was far worse than anything we saw during Hooks tenure.

As for new direction we have brought back Ivan Cleary so I’m not sure new direction is an accurate phrase.

I truly hope we have a successful season in 2020 but I am less optimistic than I have been in recent seasons. At the very least our number 1 priority should have been a quality outside back / winger and I am flabbergasted we didn’t recruit in this area.

 

[forby]

The whole long term contract is really irrelevant given there not worth the paper there written on. Gus never had a problem releasing guys early and neither has the new regime who released three pretty decent players this season albeit there were probably valid reasons for all of them.

The board brought Ivan in on a five year deal which is farcical.

Despite our mid season winning streak the footy we played was far worse than anything we saw during Hooks tenure.

As for new direction we have brought back Ivan Cleary so I’m not sure new direction is an accurate phrase.

I truly hope we have a successful season in 2020 but I am less optimistic than I have been in recent seasons. At the very least our number 1 priority should have been a quality outside back / winger and I am flabbergasted we didn’t recruit in this area.

Which outside back/winger could we have recruited? Which club actually signed an outside back of any great quality? There wasn't anybody worth breaking the bank for! Latrell is still available, but is he worth a $1m gamble? I don't think so, so who else could we get?

 

[forby]

Which outside back/winger could we have recruited? Which club actually signed an outside back of any great quality? There wasn't anybody worth breaking the bank for! Latrell is still available, but is he worth a $1m gamble? I don't think so, so who else could we get?

Anyway Happy New Year to all Penrith people everywhere, and good luck to all those affected by the fires - our thoughts are with you!

 

[Kilkenny]

Which outside back/winger could we have recruited? Which club actually signed an outside back of any great quality? There wasn't anybody worth breaking the bank for! Latrell is still available, but is he worth a $1m gamble? I don't think so, so who else could we get?

I agree we shouldn’t gamble our future on a Latrell Mitchell but we have a recruitment/ retention committee in place now under this new structure whom it is not unreasonable to expect they would be all over it in terms of current NRL players and or talented youngsters from other clubs. As it stands our outside backs for round 1 is likely to look something like Mansour/Whare/Naden/To’o and much as I love them because they play for us that quartet ain’t gonna be able to compete against the better sides.

 

[franklin2323]

I agree we shouldn’t gamble our future on a Latrell Mitchell but we have a recruitment/ retention committee in place now under this new structure whom it is not unreasonable to expect they would be all over it in terms of current NRL players and or talented youngsters from other clubs. As it stands our outside backs for round 1 is likely to look something like Mansour/Whare/Naden/To’o and much as I love them because they play for us that quartet ain’t gonna be able to compete against the better sides.

So who would you of signed? It is one thing to notice needing backs it is another thing actually having them available... If Mitchell actually wants what he is worth 700-$800k then I would go for him for 2021. Aside from him just need to see how it plays out both internally and externally

 

[Pomoz]

You don’t think 1 Prelim final in 8 years would seen as a failure? Even the much thought of juniors produced solid FG but nothing more.

We have 11 guys off contract this year. Only To’o is a must re-sign. So can recruit more if needed. 13 off contract for 2021. Again you don’t see that as a good thing as opposed to having the top 13 locked in long term based on potential other then results.

What the committee does is have board/Coaches on the same page. Which should result in no tunnel blow ups during trial games.

It also will see that if Wallace for example is close to x player. The rest will ensure that a decision isn’t made on decision.

As for how the new management is going too soon to say either way. Though we were 2-6 when Gus left. So on the field better.

No long term deals is good. Got a GF winning hooker. Double GF winning current NZ prop. QLD 18th man who has played big games.

So a good start. Don’t get me wrong not forgetting the good Gus did but was time for a new direction... Whether they take the side to where it should be time will tell

You have listed details of how things have been done this year. You have said it is different from Gus and is better. All I can say is, that's all good and everything, but what outcome has the "new way" achieved? Drum role, up steps Eric Morecambe "what.do you think of it so far?"........

 

[franklin2323]

You have listed details of how things have been done this year. You have said it is different from Gus and is better. All I can say is, that's all good and everything, but what outcome has the "new way" achieved? Drum role, up steps Eric Morecambe "what.do you think of it so far?"........

Last 2 paragraphs. I said good start so far listed why I thought so.

yes or no would 1 prelim final in 8 years be seen as a success?

 

[TheFrog]

yes or no would 1 prelim final in 8 years be seen as a success?

I don't think its a very good way to measure it. The Raiders have made one Grand Final and the Bulldogs two so they are more successful under that criteria. Win percentage or finals percentage would be better. Both of those have us pretty much mid-field which I think is about right.

 

[franklin2323]

I don't think its a very good way to measure it. The Raiders have made one Grand Final and the Bulldogs two so they are more successful under that criteria. Win percentage or finals percentage would be better. Both of those have us pretty much mid-field which I think is about right.

I’d agree with mid field. We by no means have been terrible but we can and should be aiming to be the best. So a change of approach is needed to get there sometimes.

 

[Abacus]

You don’t think 1 Prelim final in 8 years would seen as a failure? Even the much thought of juniors produced solid FG but nothing more.

We have 11 guys off contract this year. Only To’o is a must re-sign. So can recruit more if needed. 13 off contract for 2021. Again you don’t see that as a good thing as opposed to having the top 13 locked in long term based on potential other then results.

What the committee does is have board/Coaches on the same page. Which should result in no tunnel blow ups during trial games.

It also will see that if Wallace for example is close to x player. The rest will ensure that a decision isn’t made on decision.

As for how the new management is going too soon to say either way. Though we were 2-6 when Gus left. So on the field better.

No long term deals is good. Got a GF winning hooker. Double GF winning current NZ prop. QLD 18th man who has played big games.

So a good start. Don’t get me wrong not forgetting the good Gus did but was time for a new direction... Whether they take the side to where it should be time will tell

I'm cynical regarding the committee. We're allegedly paying Dave's mate $1m p.a. for 5 years - and the first step is to set up a committee? To me it sounds like the 3 wise men are aware of their recuiting limitations so looking to obfuscate via committee. Unfortunately we haven't strengthened last year's 10th placed squad by recruiting 2 bench players and Api.

I'd like to understand what else the club expects from Ivan for its money - he is not exactly a draw for players, sponsors or media and historically his results don't warrant the price tag. Still, can't begrudge the guy for winning lotto.

And I'm worried that you have To'o as a must re-sign. He has played only 15 NRL games. He has shown some exciting touches but nowhere near a "must" to be retained - particularly if losing him & Edwards could see us upgrade at fullback or centre. As for the other guys not being must keeps, that gives an interesting assessment of the squad strength.

What we're left with is a coach with few results over his career coaching a squad of players that need to be developed. And yes, we won't see preseason tunnel blow-ups - the chairman and the ceo know f**k all about footy other than where to find the corporate suites.

 

[franklin2323]

I'm cynical regarding the committee. We're allegedly paying Dave's mate $1m p.a. for 5 years - and the first step is to set up a committee? To me it sounds like the 3 wise men are aware of their recuiting limitations so looking to obfuscate via committee. Unfortunately we haven't strengthened last year's 10th placed squad by recruiting 2 bench players and Api.

I'd like to understand what else the club expects from Ivan for its money - he is not exactly a draw for players, sponsors or media and historically his results don't warrant the price tag. Still, can't begrudge the guy for winning lotto.

And I'm worried that you have To'o as a must re-sign. He has played only 15 NRL games. He has shown some exciting touches but nowhere near a "must" to be retained - particularly if losing him & Edwards could see us upgrade at fullback or centre. As for the other guys not being must keeps, that gives an interesting assessment of the squad strength.

What we're left with is a coach with few results over his career coaching a squad of players that need to be developed. And yes, we won't see preseason tunnel blow-ups - the chairman and the ceo know f**k all about footy other than where to find the corporate suites.

Would you rather Brandy and co make decisions for Ivan without Ivan getting a say? Or even worse a coach acting as CEO? If it has everyone on the same page then I see it as good thing.

Tamou and Edwards combined would be on what $700k? Them out gets us a very decent player.

To’o has shown strike we need. The 1st lot of the new lot with all their career under the academy. Is close with the other guys coming in. I see losing him as not a good sign for future guys coming staying. Would have him on rolling 1 year extentions.

Wasn’t there a pic of Dave and Ivan in corporate boxes along side each other when he coached WT? That shows some sponsors like him. Also most were off contract end of last year and none pulled the pin so can’t be too unliked.

results will say if it is money well spent or not

 

[Pomoz]

Last 2 paragraphs. I said good start so far listed why I thought so.

yes or no would 1 prelim final in 8 years be seen as a success?

I think making the semi finals three years in a row and four out of five years is a success. Lower grades had success as well and the academy was built. Compared to previous administration it was huge leap forward. Our best sustained period since 1989 when we had continual semi final appearances and then two grand finals. The 2003 period was brilliant for the premiership, but was not sustained success.

The three wise men don't have the distraction of building and funding an academy so it should be easier. The record so far, zero for one.

 

[franklin2323]

I think making the semi finals three years in a row and four out of five years is a success. Lower grades had success as well and the academy was built. Compared to previous administration it was huge leap forward. Our best sustained period since 1989 when we had continual semi final appearances and then two grand finals. The 2003 period was brilliant for the premiership, but was not sustained success.

The three wise men don't have the distraction of building and funding an academy so it should be easier. The record so far, zero for one.

A huge leap forward maybe but still are a mid table team which no one should be content with.

Not a full season yet though. Gus was still part of the set up until rounds 6 or 7

 

[Abacus]

Would you rather Brandy and co make decisions for Ivan without Ivan getting a say? Or even worse a coach acting as CEO? If it has everyone on the same page then I see it as good thing.

Tamou and Edwards combined would be on what $700k? Them out gets us a very decent player.

To’o has shown strike we need. The 1st lot of the new lot with all their career under the academy. Is close with the other guys coming in. I see losing him as not a good sign for future guys coming staying. Would have him on rolling 1 year extentions.

Wasn’t there a pic of Dave and Ivan in corporate boxes along side each other when he coached WT? That shows some sponsors like him. Also most were off contract end of last year and none pulled the pin so can’t be too unliked.

results will say if it is money well spent or not

The committee is overcooked. Any more than 5 people and its a time-wasting bullshit exercise. Everyone gets to have a say and you lose 20 minutes discussing 1 player that no one wants anyway.

For starters, Dave should not be there. He's meant to be the chairman ffs. The chairman and board are responsible for appointing senior roles and then getting the f**k out of the way. If he wants to be involved in the day-to-day business he should relinquish his role on the board and and apply for a job based on his rugby league experience based on his credentials.

How much do you think Fletcher knows about player recruitment and what do you think he contributes to the committee. IMO, nothing. So he's just wasting his (& everyone else's) time being there.

If they want a committee it should be along the lines of:
1. Matt Cameron (chair)
2. Ivan Cleary (head coach & coaching staff rep)
3. Brandy (board's rep)
4. Jim Jones (junior development)

Each person brings the input of their respective groups to the meeting (Cameron should know the cap position and be comfortable advising the panel in this respect). All of a sudden you have more focused discussion and decisions with no single area of the business over-represented.

Tamou would be $650k-$700k by himself. I'd have Edwards sitting about $250k-$300k. So about $750k-$900k available by replacing these 2 with 1 guy on $100k-$150k. Still doesn't make a 15-gamer a must keep - particularly should 2nd season syndrome hit him. If I could sign him for $200k-$250k for 2-3 years, I'm happy to keep him. If he asks for $300k, show the winger the door.

Cleary in a sponsors box so sponsors like him? Come on Franklin, I know you're not daft. Cleary would be there on his club's instruction. I was talking more about drawing new sponsors (& players) to the club. His contribution to the club's Xmas message almost put me to sleep with his lack of authenticity and apparent preparation. If that's also how engages with sponsors and players then he's getting a mill a year to be head coach (with questionable results) and sit on an overcooked committee.

Not sure what you mean by most were off contract last year - players or sponsors? If players, then the only must keep player we re-signed was Fish. Burns nice to keep. Most of the other resignings were preseason & midseason upgrades of juniors to allow the player to be NRL-eligible. Those that could get offers elsewhere took them.

 

[betcats]

Of course the CEO should be on the committee. He is overseeing the finances and marketing and the club as a whole, he should definitely have some input. It would be ridiculous to have a committee without him on it. We aren't a park footy club, we are a big business. Sure the footballing brains get the biggest say in who to target and what not but the CEO has to be there.

What mistakes has this overcooked committee made so far? They are doing quite well I think.

 

[Abacus]

Of course the CEO should be on the committee. He is overseeing the finances and marketing and the club as a whole, he should definitely have some input. It would be ridiculous to have a committee without him on it. We aren't a park footy club, we are a big business. Sure the footballing brains get the biggest say in who to target and what not but the CEO has to be there.

What mistakes has this overcooked committee made so far? They are doing quite well I think.

What input do you think Fletcher has? Or is he there for work experience? The CEO title doesn't mean you have to be on the committee - having a delegated rep with the required skills and experience (i.e. Cameron) is sufficient. My understanding is that recuitment and retention is a big part of Cameron's role. Why appoint someone to look after something and then sit in on the BAU anyway? Cameron can and should be reporting back to the ceo as required - saves a whole lot of time-wasting so the ceo (and the rest of the wall flies) can then focus on the aspects of the business where he can have impact.

As far as mistakes made, the season will be the judge. But the point being the committee should be trimmed to be truly effective. The 4 I nominated are likely those with the most to contribute - the others either contribute little (e.g. cfo can be consulted as needed or out of session) or are there as respective yes men (coaching staff and mates). Just another measure of our club's inability to become a professional organisation - they start with a credible idea but f**k it up through poor execution or overcooking.

 

[franklin2323]

The CEO needs to have a seat at the table. Not to discuss potential players but to know the fallout. Take Tetevano as example coaching staff it is a no brainer, contract wise too no brainer but for sponsors ok and the brand need the CEO’s imput