TWO new Brisbane teams

[Colk]

Would Central Qld be big enough to support a side? Pretty small areas.

I think some people are reading this thinking I am wanting to kill sides - I don’t. All I’m arguing against is putting another team there and also thinking of ways to make some of the smaller sides bigger. Fans of the Sharks, Sea Eagles or Penrith, my club Canberra, Newcastle should be trying to be as big as Souths and Parramatta in terms of support, let alone the Storm, Broncos etc of the world. We should be aiming for big clubs and if that means relocation then so be it

 

[Colk]

Wasn’t your original idea to have the CC Bears in as the 18th team? So you have now quite rightly come to the conclusion that it is not an option for a team cause there’s no money involved

Good to see that you’ve finally realised that

 

[Colk]

Id rather ask myself why it's the regional teams failing most recently, particularly when they're not part of a metro survey & don't count for ratings thereby helping to bring in the big broadcast deal like Sydney Clubs.

We’ve been talking about this and still hasn’t sunk in. Big broadcast deals are coming because of the Warriors, Storm, Broncos, Dolphins, Cowboys not because of the Sea Eagles, Sharks or Panthers

 

[Colk]

Yes regional clubs like Newcastle and GC are a concern also but whataboutism doesn’t negate my point

 

[xe_kilroy]

If there was money to be made in the gong & gosford the dragons & manly would've moved there respectively already. Being in Sydney is most lucrative even with competition.

Also staying suburban where they are they are also struggling. StG had to merge and take the 10m to survive, likewise Illa, Wests, Balmain, Nths, and Manly. All those suburban teams are dying anyway. Only a handful can truly survive on their own merit in Sydney. It's just the way it is in Australia. The Swans, one single team in Sydney for so long would've died without AFL support. Now theres two in Sydney but I reckon both are still struggling on their own merits.

Sydney can only really handle four teams imo.... Penrith, Parramatta, Souths (no surprise theyre the biggest and best junior RL regions) and Roosters because.

 

[xe_kilroy]

I would classify Penrith as a regional club anyway, so far out of CBD it's as far away as Campbelltown and Gosford and Wollongong or near about.

Why you have to ensure Campbelltown has a fulltine team. Growth region, AFL threatens to take it over.

Really only Parramatta, Roosters, Souths and Manly are good strong suburban RL juniors. I guess you could keep Manly where they are, and just try to push the other sydney clubs outward to regional areas because theyre all dying without assistance.

Long term future is spreading out and away from Sydney suburbs.

 

[Colk]

Also staying suburban where they are they are also struggling. StG had to merge and take the 10m to survive, likewise Illa, Wests, Balmain, Nths, and Manly. All those suburban teams are dying anyway. Only a handful can truly survive on their own merit in Sydney. It's just the way it is in Australia. The Swans, one single team in Sydney for so long would've died without AFL support. Now theres two in Sydney but I reckon both are still struggling on their own merits.

Sydney can only really handle four teams imo.... Penrith, Parramatta, Souths (no surprise theyre the biggest and best junior RL regions) and Roosters because.

I would add Tigers and Canterbury because that area from Liverpool down through Macarthur is going to explode. Essentially West Sydney is fine. The other side of Sydney is where the problems are because there is no growth there and because of the cost of living/house prices you are seeing a lot of young people moving west or moving to the gong/Hunter valley and Central Coast

 

[ReddFelon]

I missed most of the Swans argument, but Great Dane is correct.

They had home crowd averages in the mid 20k to low 30ks from 1996 onwards. In fact they had 22k members in 1997 and 25k in 2005 when they won their comp. Swans didn't become a membership powerhouse until 2014 which was the first time they had membership over the 30,000 mark and then continued to climb annually.

I don't think you can attribute that to the Bears being gone. Unless Bears fans did a mass code migration in 1997 and then stayed there until 2013 when suddenly another 30,000 people started signing up.

As far as AFL success in North Sydney, it's about demographics.

League = working class sport dominated by Public schools and Catholic schools.
Aussie Rules = middle class with a mix of Public, Catholic and some upper class Private schools (Only in WA, Vic and SA).
Rugby = upper class GPS, TAS, AIC, etc. schools, with some middle class Catholic schools (Aranmore, Kolbe, etc) and public schools outside of the heartland (See Thornlie Public High School in WA).

North Sydney is a middle to upper class region these days. Kids play the sports on offer. However Rugby League does have a very real image problem among parents today. A mate of mine used to work at Keebra Park, he'll happily tell you that he would never let his own kids go there because of the culture that League schools have, some of his horror stories about the behaviours that get let go, especially those directed towards younger girls are messed up. Which sort of explains the Tyrone May's of the world.

 

[siv]

Easts have no juniors. Just look at the junior clubs of their FG team

Bears have a strong combination of Northern Sydney corporate support with northern Sydney & regional CC juniors

But imagine all of the derbies that would immediately return.

Something Perth can never provide and Ipswich to a lesser extent

 

[Perth Red]

Afl clubs make more money from pokies. They're also superb at getting ppl through gate & selling membership. Instead of getting rid of our most dedicated fans NRL should maximizing them.

This we can agree on!! In our continual quest to maximise tv revenue we have largely neglected engaging our customer base beyond getting them to sit on the settee and turn on their telly.
ive been watching college football, sht these are kids playing and have you seen their packed stadiums?

 

[Perth Red]

Pretty sure that happened in 1997 & lost millions

Nah they didnt take the best, and they were In an arms race

 

[Perth Red]

Doesn't mean there's too many NSW teams - just means some clubs are poorly managed. Guess what, so are are plenty of teams outside of the state. Remember clubs in Perth, Adelaide & even Brisbane went belly up.

Vast majority of pay tv subscribers, FTA viewers & fans of game support Sydney Clubs. It's the basis for the upcoming record broadcast deal. Don't throw out baby with bath water...

Tbf none of the clubs you’ve mentioned went belly up in a stable time and in fact we’re closed down by the games owners, not left to see if they could survive.
How on earth the knights went bust with their fanbase is one of life’s great mysteries!
at the moment the game is still living in the past with believing that Pokies are the only way to have a viable nrl club, just look at the Redcliffe decision.

 

[Perth Red]

Easts have no juniors. Just look at the junior clubs of their FG team

Bears have a strong combination of Northern Sydney corporate support with northern Sydney & regional CC juniors

But imagine all of the derbies that would immediately return.

Something Perth can never provide and Ipswich to a lesser extent

Have you seen the crowds for most Sydney “derbies”? They’re lucky to crack 15k most of the time.

 

[xe_kilroy]

Easts has no juniors, but Souths has

 

[Perth Red]

If I was rationalising based on regions and strengths, be it realised or potential I’d have
roosters but make them cover north shore as well
souths big brand, big national fanbase
bulldogs but turn them into sw bulldogs playing out of a new stadium in liverpool and targeting whole sw region
Eels big fanbase and new stadium
panthers just due to their jnrs strength in a new stadium
south coast dragons covering everything down to Wollongong

manly, tigers, sharks choice to merge and relocate to perth, Adelaide or Christchurch or play in a second grade.

 

[siv]

Have you seen the crowds for most Sydney “derbies”? They’re lucky to crack 15k most of the time.

Yes and we have seen plenty of 30k plus ones as well

 

[Colk]

Not enough siv that’s the problem. We should have the ambition to have NRL sides looking at 40k - 50k memberships and 20k plus crowds. How many sides in Sydney is that a realistic goal. Souths Parramatta, Bulldogs, Tigers and Panthers maybe?

 

[Colk]

If I was rationalising based on regions and strengths, be it realised or potential I’d have
roosters but make them cover north shore as well
souths big brand, big national fanbase
bulldogs but turn them into sw bulldogs playing out of a new stadium in liverpool and targeting whole sw region
Eels big fanbase and new stadium
panthers just due to their jnrs strength in a new stadium
south coast dragons covering everything down to Wollongong

manly, tigers, sharks choice to merge and relocate to perth, Adelaide or Christchurch or play in a second grade.

I’m more bullish about the Tigers than others. They have got 20k members without the success and there is an area south of Liverpool all the way down to MacArthur that they could foster if they wanted it. That area because of the second airport and the new CBD will probably become the fastest in NSW

 

[TheEroticGamer]

If Tiges don't go South West they go South full stop. They have 20 years left if they don't correct. 10 if airplane tarmac head never leaves.

 

[siv]

Not enough siv that’s the problem. We should have the ambition to have NRL sides looking at 40k - 50k memberships and 20k plus crowds. How many sides in Sydney is that a realistic goal. Souths Parramatta, Bulldogs, Tigers and Panthers maybe?

No club today has 40-50k memberships

Its a foreign concept to RL and has taken time to get all clubs over 10k.

20k average crowds need 25k plus venues, better scheduling and better match day experiances

Also with 25% of our schedule on ThuNF or 6pm Fri where only 10-15k of fans attend due to work & school commitments

However covid has reset the bar for the next decade, be it people out of work or others not willing to attend crowds. And constant changes to the attendance rules