What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Finals Week 2: Sharks vs Panthers

Frankus

Juniors
Messages
1,950
Ok, answer this question. If Hook had been coach, would we have beaten the Sharks? Or put differently,if Hook had been coach could we have gone further?

If the answer to that question is no, then the decision had no impact, adverse or positive.

My own view is we are not yet ready for the GF because our forward pack isn't good enough yet. We are still too inconsistent. Hook as coach doesn't change that. I think we are exactly in the same place we would have been if Hook was still coach. The only difference is, the slate is clean and the team is ready for a fresh start in the off season. The coaching issue has already been dealt with, we can now focus on next year and choosing a coach to take us to the next level.
Our forward pack goes missing far too often against good sides. Imagine what a James Graham type leader would do for our pack?
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,498
Our forward pack goes missing far too often against good sides. Imagine what a James Graham type leader would do for our pack?

James Graham and the dragons pack went missing a lot this season. They got carved up by good teams more than we did.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Storm and Sharks were top 4.
Warriors x2 were top 8

Considering our form before he took over, that's a massive turnaround without a soft draw to help it. 2/4 wins over top 8 sides.

But it still wasnt good enough to make this season a success. We needed Hook gone a lot earlier. More time to improve. 6 games and no pre-season or bye etc. Wasnt long enough.

The Storm team they fielded wasn't a top 4 team. Looked good in the record books though
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,498
After round 12. How many games would you say our pack dominated?

What does that have to do with James Graham and the dragons going missing?

It wasn't our forwards who let us down this season, the halves did, they often got the platform they needed and couldn't capitalise. We rolled straight up the other end on Friday as soon as we got the ball, Maloney is a shit captain, he gets on tilt and it runs threw the side. Gallen got in his head with a simple little comment imo.

Signing more experience like James Graham isn't going to change anything at this point, its coaching and the teams culture that needs improvement. Hopefully removing hook will do that.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,498
So many times this year we needed one of our halves to step up and provide some direction, provide a calming influence and they just went missing so often.

If your forwards don't show up against Cronulla you lose by more than one.
 

martielang

Bench
Messages
3,388
Lol talking down a 6 game coach now Martie. We gonna take buzz seriously now.

Where am I talking down Ciraldo? FWIW i'd have him a the helm next year if we haven't already got Cleary, so not only have you just missed my point, you've missed it by a couple of postcodes & so have your 3 amigos.

I don't think he could of done much/anything in that limited time frame which is exactly my point. To sack someone at that point of the season, you're surely looking for immediate results or an immediate up turn. We didn't get that & in turn destabilized the team, as well as our club/brand taking a massive hit, so was it the right move? It's a legitimate question.

In regards to the downward spiral, our last game with Hook a win over Canberra, a team that went on to beat 1st & 2nd soon after. We destroyed them in the second half of that game in some of our best attack all season.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,498
Where am I talking down Ciraldo? FWIW i'd have him a the helm next year if we haven't already got Cleary, so not only have you just missed my point, you've missed it by a couple of postcodes & so have your 3 amigos.

I don't think he could of done much/anything in that limited time frame which is exactly my point. To sack someone at that point of the season, you're surely looking for immediate results or an immediate up turn. We didn't get that & in turn destabilized the team, as well as our club/brand taking a massive hit, so was it the right move? It's a legitimate question.

In regards to the downward spiral, our last game with Hook a win over Canberra, a team that went on to beat 1st & 2nd soon after. We destroyed them in the second half of that game in some of our best attack all season.


Still trying to talk up hook you desperate idiot.
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
https://realsport101.com/news/sport...ves-rothfield-a-chance-to-bash-penrith-again/


Revisionist history gives Rothfield a chance to bash Penrith, again

Oh, to be so single-minded!

Phil Rothfield’s one-man war against Penrith Executive General Manager Phil Gould and, by extension, the Panthers football club has all the hallmarks of obsession and dogged determination.

It’s legitimately not hard to imagine Rothfield sitting at home watching himself on the latest hot-take fest on Fox Sports, nodding perceptibly as he hears himself make what he feels is a valid point, ragged claw gripped around a glass of pinot noir or Shiraz.

Rothfield, slightly tipsy and a little more headstrong thanks to the two or three glasses he’s already squirreled away, allows his thoughts to turn once again to Phil Gould. No matter what’s going on in his life, whether he’s sat watching Cronulla win a finals game or tucking into some spring rolls and Kung Pao chicken at King Wan’s, thoughts of Gus are never far from mind.

Another angle, another chance to bash Gus, that’s all he’ll need he thinks to himself as he imbibes once more, the red going down a little smoother, not quite as harsh against the evening sunset as the red of his nose, I’ll expose Gus and I’ll win the most pointless war in rugby league.

Gould; Far from perfect
I’ll never once suggest that Phil Gould is infallible. I won’t sit here and suggest every decision he’s made since he returned to Panthers has been the right one or that he’s a Messiah worthy of unquestioning allegiance.

As the few guys that sat with me across a desk from Gould and engaged in heated conversation when he first walked back through the door can attest, we’re not exactly pals though I do respect the guy and I honestly feel like every decision he has made has come from the right place and has been an attempt to further the Panthers brand on and off the field.

Mostly, as the rugby league world has caught up to his consistent bullshit, Phil Rothfield is considered nothing more than a joke and a hack who uses his newspaper column inches and time on air with Fox Sports to further his own agenda and brand.

Even the way he ‘broke’ news of Cronulla’s possible salary cap issue smacked of self-serving tripe as he labelled it the “hardest story I’ve ever had to write.”

Rothfield; Like a dog with a bone
This time, though, Rothfield’s transparent attempts to re-write history in an attempt to take another potshot at Gould is laughable.

In yet another piece where he claims no one is examining Gould and asking questions around whether he’s the right man for the job at Penrith, he used the fact that premiership-winner Luke Lewis left the club and went on to win another trophy as more proof Gould was a bad decision maker.

On the face of it, that might have had some credibility.

Since leaving Penrith at the end of the 2012 season, Lewis has continued to play at a high level in the Shire and was Cronulla’s best in their drought-breaking premiership success of 2016.

Lewis was also amongst the Shark’s best players as they dumped Penrith out of the finals on Friday night in front of 19,000+ at Allianz Stadium.

The problem, even Lewis himself admitted his parting ways with Penrith was good for both parties.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story
In an exclusive interview with Rothfield’s colleague Dean Ritchie in the Daily Telegraph way back in June 2013, Lewis laid his thoughts on the situation bare.

“I knew something had to change, not just for me but for Penrith as well,” Lewis said.

“My head space was in a pretty bad place at the time. I was pretty stressed out and hadn’t slept for a couple of weeks.”

He continued, “I look back now and all that stuff I went through I am actually grateful for. I learnt a lot at that time. One door closes, another opens. I have a lot of mates at Penrith but am happy where I am at the moment.”

“It got to that point. I wasn’t putting my best foot forward when turning up to training and for the team and club. That, for me, was very disappointing. It was hard to turn up to training and do the best I could.”

Like much of what Buzz has to say, it looks possible on the surface, but even the most minor of scratches into what’s right there in front of you and it doesn’t hold much water at all.
 

TheFrog

Coach
Messages
14,300
Luke Lewis said:
“My head space was in a pretty bad place at the time. I was pretty stressed out and hadn’t slept for a couple of weeks.”
So what was the reason for all this angst? It is not given. I can't believe it was Gus, as it was Gus who brought Lewis into the Origin development squad in 2003 when he had no need to whatsoever. Who dumped Lewis as Penrith captain? Ivan Cleary? And why? This is at the root of Lewis's issues at Penrith at the time. He had coveted the Penrith captaincy for a long time.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,498
Where am I talking down Ciraldo? FWIW i'd have him a the helm next year if we haven't already got Cleary, so not only have you just missed my point, you've missed it by a couple of postcodes & so have your 3 amigos.

I don't think he could of done much/anything in that limited time frame which is exactly my point. To sack someone at that point of the season, you're surely looking for immediate results or an immediate up turn. We didn't get that & in turn destabilized the team, as well as our club/brand taking a massive hit, so was it the right move? It's a legitimate question.

In regards to the downward spiral, our last game with Hook a win over Canberra, a team that went on to beat 1st & 2nd soon after. We destroyed them in the second half of that game in some of our best attack all season.

I didn't even read most of it. The first thing I saw was you mentioning the 3 amigos so I skipped to the end and read you trying to make Canberra and that victory sound a lot better than it was(to talk up hook) so I called you an idiot. You rarely make good points imo, deal with it.
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
So what was the reason for all this angst? It is not given. I can't believe it was Gus, as it was Gus who brought Lewis into the Origin development squad in 2003 when he had no need to whatsoever. Who dumped Lewis as Penrith captain? Ivan Cleary? And why? This is at the root of Lewis's issues at Penrith at the time. He had coveted the Penrith captaincy for a long time.

From everything I've heard Gus really likes Lewis and rates him highly.
 

Kilkenny

Coach
Messages
13,284
To dominate up front first and foremost you need four top quality front rowers, one of who is generally the leader and the one who provides the inspiration, particularly in the game's key moments.

We have four good front rowers with no particular leader who is one who rips are tears, big minutes, lot's of effective carries with off loads and second phase play. I think Trent Merrin was designated the forward leader when he came to the club, was outstanding in his first season but has stagnated for the most part and is no longer rated a top quality front rower.

I am not sure what Phil Gould is thinking about our front row stocks but I am sure he is smart enough to realise the above mentioned four are unlikely to be the four to take us to the next level so on that basis something has to change for 2019.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,051
I didn't even read most of it. The first thing I saw was you mentioning the 3 amigos so I skipped to the end and read you trying to make Canberra and that victory sound a lot better than it was(to talk up hook) so I called you an idiot. You rarely make good points imo, deal with it.
What he fails to mention... is that like most of our wins this year the good attack came AFTER we threw the 'gameplan' out the window.

The best footy we played all season was when we were desperate. He also lied about Raiders beating Storm (who finished second). Sharks beat them 28-24 in Round 19. Storm beat them 44-10 in Round 20. We scraped a win over them in Round 21. Tigers beat them 22-20 in Round 22. But hey we faced them in the middle of 4 losses in a row... we got them in great form. Huge win by us. Super impressive.

We had ONE impressive win under Hook after our first bye. And that was the freakish win over Warriors with a reserve grade side. Our next was Storm in Round 25 under Ciro.
 

Pilot house

Juniors
Messages
755
Gus said he sacked hook because he didn’t think he would take them to a premiership. He didn’t give him the opportunity to try. Instead he installed cirro and subsequently got what he said he didn’t want. Then he wanted Ivan back. A lot of players were disturbed, everything fell apart in the end. The panthers would have struggled to win due to Maloney issues but Gus pulled the trigger too early. Maloney got in with hook, played his best footy under him.Was the better in the swap than the troubled Matt moylan.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,051
Gus said he sacked hook because he didn’t think he would take them to a premiership. He didn’t give him the opportunity to try. Instead he installed cirro and subsequently got what he said he didn’t want. Then he wanted Ivan back. A lot of players were disturbed, everything fell apart in the end. The panthers would have struggled to win due to Maloney issues but Gus pulled the trigger too early. Maloney got in with hook, played his best footy under him.Was the better in the swap than the troubled Matt moylan.
He got the best part of 3 years here and we couldnt improve. Our best form and footy came at the back of of 2016. In 3 years we won only 2 games against teams that finished in the top 4.

It was Hooks 7th year of coaching and his teams always had the same issue. Hook refused to work with people to fix that. He was sacked because he is a stubborn merkin. He had a simple 'gameplan' which was completely ineffective against a well coached team in good form. You cant win a premiership without beating well coached teams in good form. If he actively worked with people and accepted help he would still be our coach and we would have been a much better team. He would be a much better coach. This is a team sport and the coaching staff are supposed to be a team also.

We lost countless players thanks to Hook. We lost countless staff thanks to him and stood to lose more of both while wasting a premiership window under him.

The club had his back for 2+ years even when it was costing us valuable players and staff. Even when he was completely offside with Gus we publicly had his back 100%. Players instructed not to say a bad word about him. Everyone stood by him to reduce distractions. But he distanced himself even further from people. Confused the playing group by cutting staff out when we went to Brisbane. He didnt even watch the whole game. What sort of coach takes the players to play video games and cuts out alll other coaching staff for the trip and then misses part of the game because he decides to get into the dressing sheds early.

He also focused all of his blame at the captain for playing poorly. When he would rip a player to shreds, he would do so to Matt Moylan infront of the team. Honestly its a miracle some players stayed as long as they did under Hook. The only guys who seem to fit into what he wants are the no frills guys.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,498
What he fails to mention... is that like most of our wins this year the good attack came AFTER we threw the 'gameplan' out the window.

The best footy we played all season was when we were desperate. He also lied about Raiders beating Storm (who finished second). Sharks beat them 28-24 in Round 19. Storm beat them 44-10 in Round 20. We scraped a win over them in Round 21. Tigers beat them 22-20 in Round 22. But hey we faced them in the middle of 4 losses in a row... we got them in great form. Huge win by us. Super impressive.

We had ONE impressive win under Hook after our first bye. And that was the freakish win over Warriors with a reserve grade side. Our next was Storm in Round 25 under Ciro.


@martielang you see, I didn’t even have to fact check it and I knew you were talking shit to try and make hook look better.
 

Latest posts

Top