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18th club, whose next?

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,520
The The Dolphins were told to spend on grass roots as a condition of their licence. Hopefully Perth is given this same requirement so that at least they are required to invest in the local RL scene. I believe from what @Perth Red says that one of the bidders is currently funding most of the local scene anyway.
Yes cummins has been a big backer of grassroots in WA for 25 years. I’ve no problem with stipulated responsibilities for an nrl club to be helping develop grassroots, but it shouldn’t be paying for all of it beyond elite pathways for developing NRL players and some marketing and profile raising.
having said that in WA the state league holds the two afl licenses and the two afl clubs have to pay millions a year to the sTate league for use of the license, this then gets funneled back to grassroots. Maybe that’s a way to go for nrl clubs?
 

tri_colours

Juniors
Messages
1,923
In another clear example of why the nrl simply has to grow its national footprint the nrl is about to sign a $10mill a year deal with telstra for competition naming right PLUS digital offerings. In comparison afl signed JUST a naming rights deal with Toyota a couple of years ago for $18.5million a year!
According to several cites telstra will sign for $15m, $90m over 6 years.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,520
According to several cites telstra will sign for $15m, $90m over 6 years.
Yeh that was a weird one, it was an article from 2007 but got posted up on the news website last week!

but my point stands. Telstra are rumoured to be going to pay $15mill a year for naming rights and internet content. Meanwhile AFL is getting $12mill for internet content PLUS $18.5mill from Toyota for naming rights. It’s clear that afl‘s national big city reach is making them more attractive to sponsors.
 
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Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,520
Almost as soon as the Dolphins were confirmed as the NRL’s 17th team, the conversation immediately shifted to who would become the 18th.

The losing Brisbane bids were upbeat in defeat, while Perth and a second side in New Zealand also remain confident they can still become expansion teams.

While the majority of NRL clubs are keen on an 18-team competition to avoid one team having a bye each round, concerns remain over whether the talent pool is deep enough to maintain a strong competition standard.

A fifth team in rugby league heartland Queensland looks the obvious next step but the time zones in Western Australia and New Zealand would give the NRL with more flexibility in scheduling.

A 7:30pm start during winter in Western Australia would be 9:30pm on the east coast, which could result in a four-game Super Saturday. An extra New Zealand team would help with the Friday 6pm fixture.

If they do expand again soon, the NRL must decide whether to venture into untested regions or draw on areas with an already strong rugby league presence.

The NRL has made no secret of the fact it trades off tribalism and a third Brisbane franchise would only add to the theatre.

The Jets were well in the race with the Dolphins for the 17th licence and the bid based in Brisbane’s expanding western corridor would be a major contender for the 18th.

The region is a rugby league heartland with a huge catchment of players. In 2016, Brisbane had 11,000 registered players while the western corridor had 16,000.

They would be based out of Ipswich, but play the majority of their home games at Suncorp Stadium.

Similar to the Dolphins, the Jets already have a Queensland Cup side and with that comes a level of identity and history.

They would forge an immediate and fierce rivalry with the Broncos and Dolphins. As a part of their last bid, the Jets promised to run an academy.

They have the financial backing of the Ipswich City Council, who are committed to a $220 million redevelopment which would double the capacity of 10,000-seater North Ipswich Reserve Stadium.

Additionally, the Jets have the backing of a leagues club.

The Dolphins will effectively be the canary down the mine for the Jets and if they prove a runaway success the NRL could go back to the well.

PROS

- Brisbane’s western corridor is a growing population in a rugby league heartland.

- The Jets already have a Queensland Cup side that provides a level of identity.

- They would forge an immediate rivalry with the Broncos and Dolphins, while also providing an academcy.

CONS

- Expanding their fanbase will prove difficult with the Broncos and Dolphins already established.

- Majority of their home games at Suncorp in their early years, losing local attachment with fans.

- Financial model has been questioned.

PERTH

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

The famous proverb will be ringing in the NRL’s ears when it considers taking the game west for a second time.

The Western Reds lasted just three seasons and proved a major headache for the governing body in the 1990s.

However, Perth has proved in recent years they still have an appetite for rugby league - selling out Origin in 2019 and attracting strong crowds to club games.

Whether it’s enough to sustain an NRL club on a full-time basis is the million-dollar question, but it remains an untapped rugby league market.

Junior rugby league participation rates are growing in Western Australia, where four other professional football teams already exsist.

Perth’s population has tripled since the Reds were in town, and even then they had healthy crowds.

The city now boasts a state-of-the-art stadium and its time zone could prove a major attraction for broadcasters.

Supporters say if the NRL is serious about being a national game, it must expand its footprint. But Perth is also the most isolated city in the world and travel would cost a small fortune.

PROS

- An untapped market that has proved through Origin that a healthy appetite for rugby league exists.

- Junior rugby league participation rates are growing and an NRL team would create a genuine pathway for players.

- A state-of-the-art stadium and a time zone that could benefits the game.

CONS

- Establishing a rugby league fanbase in a diehard AFL city that already has multiple professional sports teams.

- Travel would prove costly on the financial front and on players’ bodies. Boarding a five-hour flight after an NRL game is nobody’s idea of fun.

- You’ll never ever know if you never ever go. Unfortunately for this bid, the NRL has been, and they do know. The Western Reds lasted three seasons in the mid-90s.

NEW ZEALAND

Rugby union is a religion across the ditch but Kiwi-born players still make up almost a quarter of the NRL.

Around 115 New Zealanders played in the NRL in 2021 and 90 per cent of then were born on the country’s North Island.

Kiwi businessman Andrew Chalmers believes the region has come a long way since his 2004 Southern Orcas bid.

Chalmers wants to relaunch the Wellington bid and land an All Black star as his first signing, claiming it would cost $30 million to establish the side.

They would play most home games at the 35,000-seat capacity Sky Stadium and also take games to the south island in Christchurch and Dunedin.

The Orcas would create an immediate rivalry the Auckland-based Warriors, and establish a pathways system for juniors.

An NRL team in the region could see potential code switches from professional and up-and-coming players to local juniors.

PROS

- Would create an immediate rivalry Warriors, while establishing another junior pathways system.

- Beneficial time zone and huge talent pool in rugby union ripe for the picking.
- Wellington already has 35,000-seat stadium.

CONS

- Rugby union is a behemoth and will prove an extremely tough competitor in a small market.

- Lacks a detailed financial model.

- No established identity or history.

 

Perth Red

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69,520
Yeah.. I mean "we tried, it only lasted 3 years.. so it was a failure" is a hopeless summation of what happened.

The Reds weren't the only team caught in the cross-hairs of that horrific peace settlement that formed the NRL & stipulated 14 teams as the desired competition size.
Yeh that argument never came up in the debate about Brisbane2 as the 17th club or Titans as 16th club lol selective arguments it seems.
 
Messages
14,822
Yeh that argument never came up in the debate about Brisbane2 as the 17th club or Titans as 16th club lol selective arguments it seems.
Chargers made money in 1998 but were culled because News Ltd wanted the Broncos to have SEQ all to themselves. Their exclusion was far more controversial and unfair than the North Sydney Bears' axing, but got very little media attention because it wasn't a Sydney club. People from the Gold Coast took it in their stride and kept on playing RL. Fans of the Bears threw tantrums and badmouthed every other potential bid, despite their club having no money or home ground and, being unsuccessful throughout the bulk of their existence.

Reds were victims of the Sydney-first mentality of Arthurson and Quayle. The club wasn't given a fair chance of succeeding and should not be considered a failure. The way the ARL treated the Reds and the WA public was shameful. What happened to them was far worse than North Sydney and South Sydney getting booted and, it has had a far more detrimental impact on the game as it prevented us from being a national sport. If the Western Reds were kept around then the Western Force probably wouldn't have been created. Our broadcast and sponsorship deals would be closer to AwFuL and we would be in a genuine position to expand into Adelaide.

I want the NRL to be proactive and announce that Perth, NZ 2 and Bris 3 will be brought in over a 10-15 year period, with the order of entry determined by whichever bid is most advanced by 2028, 2033 and 2038.
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,215
Reds were victims of the Sydney-first mentality of Arthurson and Quayle. The club wasn't given a fair chance of succeeding and should not be considered a failure. The way the ARL treated the Reds and the WA public was shameful. What happened to them was far worse than North Sydney and South Sydney getting booted and, it has had a far more detrimental impact on the game as it prevented us from being a national sport. If the Western Reds were kept around then the Western Force probably wouldn't have been created. Our broadcast and sponsorship deals would be closer to AwFuL and we would be in a genuine position to expand into Adelaide.

I want the NRL to be proactive and announce that Perth, NZ 2 and Bris 3 will be brought in over a 10-15 year period, with the order of entry determined by whichever bid is most advanced by 2028, 2033 and 2038.
If you look at that final Reds squad, there was the makings of a club that could have been contenders in the late '90s-early 2000s. Just look how many went on to bigger success in the early years of the Storm.

On your 2nd point, you're absolutely right.

It's time the top tier was bold, truly bold.. just as it was 20 years ago.

We should go to 20 teams again - but rather than the "big bang" approach of 1995, maybe a staged plan over the next 10 years with a clear timetable set in place.

If relocation or replacement of Sydney clubs is unlikely to happen (to accommodate expansion into Perth/NZ /Brisbane 3/Adelaide), then the NRL should step up and just add clubs to open up those pathways and commercial opportunities.

I know adding those 4 takes us to 21, but we could do it with 20 teams if ONE Sydney club is relocated or demoted.. and if an expansion roadmap starts, the opportunity could be left open for a club if the pressures caused by expansion creates an opportunity there.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,008
If you look at that final Reds squad, there was the makings of a club that could have been contenders in the late '90s-early 2000s. Just look how many went on to bigger success in the early years of the Storm.

On your 2nd point, you're absolutely right.

It's time the top tier was bold, truly bold.. just as it was 20 years ago.

We should go to 20 teams again - but rather than the "big bang" approach of 1995, maybe a staged plan over the next 10 years with a clear timetable set in place.

If relocation or replacement of Sydney clubs is unlikely to happen (to accommodate expansion into Perth/NZ /Brisbane 3/Adelaide), then the NRL should step up and just add clubs to open up those pathways and commercial opportunities.

I know adding those 4 takes us to 21, but we could do it with 20 teams if ONE Sydney club is relocated or demoted.. and if an expansion roadmap starts, the opportunity could be left open for a club if the pressures caused by expansion creates an opportunity there.
Why not do NZ2, Perth and QLD5, then dangle the carrot for Adelaide?
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,215
Why not do NZ2, Perth and QLD5, then dangle the carrot for Adelaide?
Absolutely - and that's pretty much how I'd do it - except probably Perth first, then NZ 2, then Qld 5.

If the NRL wants to get back into Adelaide they need to be scheduling regular games there (say 2-3 games per season) to build a live following, as well as dangling a huge carrot for relocation.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,808
The question needs to be asked, why doesn't News ltd want a team in Perth, which it's very obvious they don't and what the f**k is their agenda with the NRL?
 
Messages
15,166
The question needs to be asked, why doesn't News ltd want a team in Perth, which it's very obvious they don't and what the f**k is their agenda with the NRL?
Because they won't pick up any new conscriptions for Fox/Kayo.
Every Rugby League fan would already have them, plus new supporters probably already have them as well due to the AFL.
 

tri_colours

Juniors
Messages
1,923
Chargers made money in 1998 but were culled because News Ltd wanted the Broncos to have SEQ all to themselves. Their exclusion was far more controversial and unfair than the North Sydney Bears' axing, but got very little media attention because it wasn't a Sydney club. People from the Gold Coast took it in their stride and kept on playing RL. Fans of the Bears threw tantrums and badmouthed every other potential bid, despite their club having no money or home ground and, being unsuccessful throughout the bulk of their existence.

Reds were victims of the Sydney-first mentality of Arthurson and Quayle. The club wasn't given a fair chance of succeeding and should not be considered a failure. The way the ARL treated the Reds and the WA public was shameful. What happened to them was far worse than North Sydney and South Sydney getting booted and, it has had a far more detrimental impact on the game as it prevented us from being a national sport. If the Western Reds were kept around then the Western Force probably wouldn't have been created. Our broadcast and sponsorship deals would be closer to AwFuL and we would be in a genuine position to expand into Adelaide.

I want the NRL to be proactive and announce that Perth, NZ 2 and Bris 3 will be brought in over a 10-15 year period, with the order of entry determined by whichever bid is most advanced by 2028, 2033 and 2038.
The Norh Sydney club got more media attention , because they have continually tried to do something about it. So stop trying to blame Sydney for QL 'Ders own inadequacies.
 
Messages
15,166
It's a business, but they can't ONLY ever think about the bottom dollar (TV subscriptions). Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture (Perth in, games in Adelaide ongoing, and such).
it will be up to the NRL to push that barrow.
Hopefully they are up for it.
If the narrative from them starts along the lines of .. "we are in consultations with our partners.." then beware.
 

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