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18th club, whose next?

Messages
14,822
do you understand that context that the so called debt is being made in? News ltd were fighting a war and spending stupid money on SL clubs. It wasnt debt, it was overspending in a ridiculous manner in a time of player salary inflation unprecedented by the owners. I doubt there was any club that wasnt spending a lot more than they were earning in 1997. Just read some of the stories about players salaries and signing bonuses form that era!

All clubs had to find a way to meet the rising costs, yet the Reds were the ones that racked up a $10m debt.

Im sure it wasnt as lucrative, it was probably a decent standard sponsorship, what news ltd did was come in and offer millions of $'s to sign clubs up.

That doesn't explain why the club racked up a $10m debt by the end of 1997. Other clubs weren't in such a perilous financial position.

Without the third teams travel costs and a war being fought the reds would have been fine in all probability.

Cowboys had to cover the travel and accommodation for all visiting teams.

They were actually flush with money by all accounts in 92-95 and were bringing over dozens of young east coast players into the WARL and giving every WARL club a substantial funding grant to improve the local comp, going on tours to south Africa and had a super slick marketing team.

So they could afford to pay players from eastern Australia to play in the WARL and send teams to South Africa, but having to pay for teams to travel to Perth was too much?

All water under the bridge now. look to the future young man.

The two men pushing for a Perth-based team were part of the Western Reds model that went bust.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,749
All clubs had to find a way to meet the rising costs, yet the Reds were the ones that racked up a $10m debt.



That doesn't explain why the club racked up a $10m debt by the end of 1997. Other clubs weren't in such a perilous financial position.



Cowboys had to cover the travel and accommodation for all visiting teams.



So they could afford to pay players from eastern Australia to play in the WARL and send teams to South Africa, but having to pay for teams to travel to Perth was too much?



The two men pushing for a Perth-based team were part of the Western Reds model that went bust.
Thats BS, all clubs were spending well beyond their means in 1996 and 1997 and were being subsidised by either ARL or News Ltd. I bet if you could see the books every club would have run millions over. Take a look at the increase in player payments it was 1000%! No club could afford it, why the war didnt last long.

Yes they were, its just Reds were news ltd owned so easy to close down and move. Our salary bill wouldnt have been close to some clubs.

Cowboys were also flat arsed broke and had to be bailed out by News Ltd due to it, and travel costs one of the reasons they also bailed to SL

No it wasnt too much, the budget was built on onesides costs. The problem was at the 11th hour the ARL introduced a reserve grade and that wasnt budgeted for. You have to remember back then flights were far more expensive, relatively speaking , than now. Flying an extra 20 players plus staff every week for second side was never budgeted for and was huge cost imposition. It was a dumb move by ARL to introduce so late in the piece.

No they were part of the Western reds model that was heading for success. News ltd were the owners of the demise of the Reds in 1997, and again who didnt go bust.
 
Messages
14,822
Thats BS, all clubs were spending well beyond their means in 1996 and 1997 and were being subsidised by either ARL or News Ltd. I bet if you could see the books every club would have run millions over. Take a look at the increase in player payments it was 1000%! No club could afford it, why the war didnt last long.

Yes they were, its just Reds were news ltd owned so easy to close down and move. Our salary bill wouldnt have been close to some clubs.

Cowboys were also flat arsed broke and had to be bailed out by News Ltd due to it, and travel costs one of the reasons they also bailed to SL

No it wasnt too much, the budget was built on onesides costs. The problem was at the 11th hour the ARL introduced a reserve grade and that wasnt budgeted for. You have to remember back then flights were far more expensive, relatively speaking , than now. Flying an extra 20 players plus staff every week for second side was never budgeted for and was huge cost imposition. It was a dumb move by ARL to introduce so late in the piece.

No they were part of the Western reds model that was heading for success. News ltd were the owners of the demise of the Reds in 1997, and again who didnt go bust.

Here's a News Ltd article confirming the Reds were in debt:

Despite the failed experiment of the Western Reds, who crashed with a $10 million debt in 1997, Perth is well progressed with plans for an NRL team and says it should be favoured over Queensland, which already has three clubs.


John Sackson is a Queenslander, BTW.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,749
Here's a News Ltd article confirming the Reds were in debt:

Despite the failed experiment of the Western Reds, who crashed with a $10 million debt in 1997, Perth is well progressed with plans for an NRL team and says it should be favoured over Queensland, which already has three clubs.​

John Sackson is a Queenslander, BTW.
It’s like you can’t understand that it was only in debt as news ltd spent ridiculous sums of money in 96 and 97 paying players ridiculous sums of money. Every club was in debt, no one was making enough money in 96 and 97 to pay the players the salaries they were on.
 
Messages
14,822
It’s like you can’t understand that it was only in debt as news ltd spent ridiculous sums of money in 96 and 97 paying players ridiculous sums of money. Every club was in debt, no one was making enough money in 96 and 97 to pay the players the salaries they were on.

You do realise that News Ltd paid players who signed with Super League, right?

The neutral branded Crushers had a debt of $9m, FWIW. They folded due to the debt.

One of the lawyers involved in the Super League v ARL case said News Ltd had already written off more than $200 million in Super League-related costs without even having a competition. "What difference is Optus's $100 million going to make?" he asked.
As well as loyalty payments, the Optus money is understood to be committed to paying the ARL's legal costs and possibly bailing out the South Queensland Crushers team, which is on the brink of collapse with about $9 million in debt.
The chequebook fight erupted last night after Super League warned the ARL it would now approach some ARL players who had signed loyalty agreements (as opposed to players contracted to ARL clubs) "with a view to entering into contracts with those players".

 
Messages
14,822
Former Western Reds player Matt Fuller confirmed the Reds signed with Super League because "they were bleeding financially and felt they could be propped up by News Limited".

Fuller reflects on the Reds’ turbulent history and makes a stunning call.

“When the ARL and Super League war started, the Reds at the time were supported by the ARL and they jumped ship. In hindsight, it was their death because the ARL wouldn’t take them back, even when the Super League war had finished,” he says.

“The Reds aligned themselves with Super League very early on for their survival, which probably shows they were bleeding financially and felt they could be propped up by News Limited.

“The only positive if there is one, is that the game became a lot stronger from it. Once the war finished, rugby league became stronger.”

The Western Reds’ financial model was doomed from day one. They had a $1.8 million salary cap and had to pay not only their only players, headed by big signings Brad MacKay and Mark Geyer, but visiting teams’ accommodation and air fares. By the time Super League came knocking, the Reds were haemorrhaging and had no choice but to sign on with the rival competition.

The schism might have led to the Reds’ downfall but Super League meant a windfall for players. Fuller’s salary went from $100,000 to $250,000 “overnight”.

“Financially it was great for players and I was about the seventh or eighth highest paid,” he says.

“I was on holidays in Mandurah and got a phone call saying come straight to the Burswood. I walked into a room and was told we were going to Super League and they gave us $30,000 that night just to sit down and talk with them.”

 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
Former Western Reds player Matt Fuller confirmed the Reds signed with Super League because "they were bleeding financially and felt they could be propped up by News Limited".
Breaking news, man states bleeding obvious!

Basically every team was either in financial distress or headed for it when SL happened, it's one of the major reasons the SL war was even possible. Financial viability issues was a major contributing factor for every team that joined SL except the Broncos, and why a handful of the ARL clubs desperately tried to join at one point or another.

Anybody in WA claiming that the Reds were fine prior to News taking over is either delusional, full of it, or trying to shift blame from themselves to News. Long story short, it wasn't really their fault, but they knew they were in serious financial trouble before they even played their first game, and that's true of all the 95 expansion teams.
 
Messages
14,822
Breaking news, man states bleeding obvious!

Basically every team was either in financial distress or headed for it when SL happened, it's one of the major reasons the SL war was even possible. Financial viability issues was a major contributing factor for every team that joined SL except the Broncos, and why a handful of the ARL clubs desperately tried to join at one point or another.

Anybody in WA claiming that the Reds were fine prior to News taking over is either delusional, full of it, or trying to shift blame from themselves to News. Long story short, it wasn't really their fault, but they knew they were in serious financial trouble before they even played their first game, and that's true of all the 95 expansion teams.

The game wasn't ready for expansion in 1995. Arhurson and Quayle should have waited until the broadcast rights expired in 2000. Some of the poorer clubs might have fallen away by then. The annual grant in 1995 was only $200k.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,749
Breaking news, man states bleeding obvious!

Basically every team was either in financial distress or headed for it when SL happened, it's one of the major reasons the SL war was even possible. Financial viability issues was a major contributing factor for every team that joined SL except the Broncos, and why a handful of the ARL clubs desperately tried to join at one point or another.

Anybody in WA claiming that the Reds were fine prior to News taking over is either delusional, full of it, or trying to shift blame from themselves to News. Long story short, it wasn't really their fault, but they knew they were in serious financial trouble before they even played their first game, and that's true of all the 95 expansion teams.
The reason for that has been explained numerous times, they budgeted a certain amount for travel costs and the ARL doubled it by adding another grade late in the piece.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
34,034
do you understand the context that the so called debt is being made in? News ltd were fighting a war and spending stupid money on SL clubs. It wasnt debt, it was overspending in a ridiculous manner in a time of player salary inflation unprecedented by the owners. I doubt there was any club that wasnt spending a lot more than they were earning in 1997. Just read some of the stories about players salaries and signing bonuses from that era!

Wendall sailor who was a 2nd year player on $22,500 a year in 1995: “Sure enough, overnight ... it just went bang. My manager rang me and said, ‘Mate, just to let you know, I’ve got a [$100,000 signing bonus] cheque for you and you’re on $300,000 for the first year, $300,000 for the second year, $350,000 the third year’.”
Its not hard to see how News ltd racked up $10mill overspend on the Reds.

Im sure it wasnt as lucrative, it was probably a decent standard sponsorship, what news ltd did was come in and offer millions of $'s to sign clubs up.

Without the third teams travel costs and a war being fought the reds would have been fine in all probability. They were actually flush with money by all accounts in 92-95 and were bringing over dozens of young east coast players into the WARL and giving every WARL club a substantial funding grant to improve the local comp, going on tours to south Africa and had a super slick marketing team.

Id love someone to write a book on the Reds. Ive spoken to two board members and some players from that time and it makes for fascinating RL history.

All water under the bridge now though. 2024 very different time, city and NRL.
For clubs like the bears you said they failed due to finances

but for Perth you switch it and blame super league
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,813
still arguing about things that happened 27 years ago like its relevant today....


According to the annual NewsCorp coaches poll, half of the current NRL coaches would prefer to see a new franchise in Perth rather than PNG
From the NRL coaches and assistants who participated in the poll, New Zealand was the second most-popular option with 23% of the vote, PNG getting 10%, a Pacific-based team 7% with another 7% saying the premiership should remain at 17 sides

The Roar article doesn't mention what % Perth had and the NewsCorp article is paywalled. Looks like no votes for Brisbane 3 though LOL
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,237
still arguing about things that happened 27 years ago like its relevant today....





The Roar article doesn't mention what % Perth had and the NewsCorp article is paywalled. Looks like no votes for Brisbane 3 though LOL
18. PNG
19. Bears
20. Perf
 

Bukowski

Bench
Messages
2,676
still arguing about things that happened 27 years ago like its relevant today....





The Roar article doesn't mention what % Perth had and the NewsCorp article is paywalled. Looks like no votes for Brisbane 3 though LOL
Matt White on SEN said Perth was 50% . No surprises in the poll if you ask me. Perth and NZ the obvious choices. B3 no chance for 18.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,237
Matt White on SEN said Perth was 50% . No surprises in the poll if you ask me. Perth and NZ the obvious choices. B3 no chance for 18.
Funnily enough these polls mean shít, perth has been the favourite for over 20 years of these polls, yet still no perf team... they should be asking the CEOs of each club basically the only people that matter, the blake solly's, and the nick politis's, they are ones that vote, not the magical chairs/revolving door coaches/assistants, should be banking on 2nd or 3rd place everytime.... what percentage was fiji this time btw
 

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