1st ODI NZ v Australia 3 Feb 2016: Eden Park Auckland

[Hutty1986]

The attack just has no leader. Haze should be doing it but he hasn't really taken it on consistently, and he got slaughtered last game. Starc/Johnson/Faulkner are big outs, especially the first two, who are genuine spearheads.

 

[Pete Cash]

They are but NZ did beat us in NZ with a full strength side in the world cup. NZ are a very good side at home.

 

[Hutty1986]

They are but NZ did beat us in NZ with a full strength side in the world cup. NZ are a very good side at home.

Absolutely, they are a fantastic side in all three formats. Just wish there wasn't such a huge difference between our best and worst performances. We have had some shocking collapses the past few years.

 

[Meth]

The attack just has no leader. Haze should be doing it but he hasn't really taken it on consistently, and he got slaughtered last game. Starc/Johnson/Faulkner are big outs, especially the first two, who are genuine spearheads.

I think you need at least 3 guys who are genuine wicket taking chances and are going to be difficult to score a lot of runs off- with 1 of those guys being world class. Starc is that guy for you. Hazelwood is not, but he could be 1 of the 3. I don't think Boland, Richardson or Hastings can be 1 of the 3. tbh, I don't think Faulkner is either.

 

[Pete Cash]

It happens to every nation really. RSA fell to pieces in India for example. Look at what happened to NZ in RSA only a few years ago. Williamson averages about 10 there.

All sides have a humiliating loss in them.

 

[Pete Cash]

I think you need at least 3 guys who are genuine wicket takers and are going to be difficult to score a lot of runs off- with 1 guy who is world class. Starc is that guy for you. Hazelwood is not, but he could be 1 of the 3. I don't think Boland, Richardson or Hastings can be 1 of the 3. tbh, I don't think Faulkner is either.

We won a world cup with Starc (world class), Hazlewood and Johnson (do the job) and a bunch of shitty allrounders.

I think the thing is all three stepped up at different times and then combined to squeeze the life out of NZ in the world cup final until Faulkner came along and took all the wickets that those three bowlers had built the pressure towards.

 

[The Charlatan]

I thought the Duke bowled rather well. Considering most of the others got speared his 3.9 RPO was quite respectable, and the way the ODI game has evolved it's probably a rather good economy rate these days.

 

[Meth]

We won a world cup with Starc (world class), Hazlewood and Johnson (do the job) and a bunch of shitty allrounders.

Yeah, I think Starc is world class and I think Hazelwood and Johnson do the job...and still would, tbh

Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins would do the job too

 

[Pete Cash]

Hehe sorry mate I misread your post. I thought you said you need 3 solid wicket takers and a world class bowler.

I agree with your point.

That said Hastings has bowled ok.

 

[Red Bear]

The attack just has no leader. Haze should be doing it but he hasn't really taken it on consistently, and he got slaughtered last game. Starc/Johnson/Faulkner are big outs, especially the first two, who are genuine spearheads.

We won a world cup with Starc (world class), Hazlewood and Johnson (do the job) and a bunch of shitty allrounders.

I think the thing is all three stepped up at different times and then combined to squeeze the life out of NZ in the world cup final until Faulkner came along and took all the wickets that those three bowlers had built the pressure towards.

Hazlewood has barely bowled of late. But they're missing both Starc and MJ - whose performance in the WC was pretty good especially in the final - big time. And part of that is Faulkner has been rubbish without the pressure up the other end. He's suddenly not near as threatening when he's the play they can just push the ball around against and they can attack the woefullness of Boland (or whoever).

 

[Meth]

Hehe sorry mate I misread your post. I thought you said you need 3 solid wicket takers and a world class bowler.

I agree with your point.

That said Hastings has bowled ok.

yeah, I made it the point awkwardly

 

[JJ]

They are but NZ did beat us in NZ with a full strength side in the world cup. NZ are a very good side at home.

Yep, we have a very good side - excellent at home, and decent away. Most sides are very strong at home, and have more issues away - Australia included, regardless of who's available.

The Brisbane test made you lot think you were way better than us, you're not - Perth was even, and the result notwithstanding we had the better of most of Adelaide.
As you note, at the World Cup, each team won their home game (admittedly Starc bowled brilliantly and nearly stole the Eden park game from us) - but home advantage is huge, pretty simple - should be competitive cricket for the rest of the summer

 

[ANTiLAG]

After this series (as it's too late to change) - I'd be flushing the dunny on Elliott and Ronchi

Won't happen. Both have been selected in WCT20 squads. but Ronchi is definitely on his way out.

Personally I've never thought much of Elliott (great WC acknowledged) and Ronchi is too streaky - regardless both are old, and not terribly good.

I expect Nicholls will be the replacement for Elliott, does eliminate a bowling option

Which is why it will not happen any time soon

(which Munro or Neesham would provide), but we need balance in the order.

But they are not in the team at current. Neesham is a mile away from the A ODI team. Munro, if he replaces Baz - which means he needs to jump over Latham - is not a wily limited overs bowler like Elliot is.

Keeper is an interesting one, BJ is the obvious option, but someone else could nab it.

Yeah. That someone else could be Nicholls.

One 50 against Australia does not have Nicholls pressuring out Elliot (who averages over 50 against Australia) when both KW and Hesson want Elliot's bowling in the side. But Nicholls can pick up some wicket keeping gloves.

If Elliot gets dropped - it will be for failing in India (because he has a very bad record in sub continent - but then I could see him forcing his way back in with a tour to Australia next year anyway).

 

[ANTiLAG]

if you can't accept how bad this current side is then I guess you never will, we have a side that can bat well but the problem is they've had to bat well far too often as of late, 300+ in almost every ODI it seems, the bowlers just aren't doing anything of note

This current Australian side just beat India 4-1. And it is stronger without Boland.

You guys just ran into Guptill and a Matt Henry special.

Guptill was overdue to give Australia a clinic. He has done it to everyone else.

Henry has done his thing against India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. And he was particularly pumped up after he missed out on the WCT20 team.

If you cannot give opposition players credit for playing well or being stars, and make no mistake, Guptill despite being a very ordinary test player, is an ODI star, then you're going to have a tough time losing any games.

Henry, Boult (when fit), and Southee are good enough to skittle top orders on their day. Whether it is Zimbabwe or a better side.

McClenaghan and Milne are good enough to ruin a middle order with 2 or 3 quick wickets out of nowhere when all seemed to be going well on a lifeless pitch with pace for Milne, and aggression for Mitch (which often leaks so many runs).

Taylor, Williamson and Guptill are world class ODI players at present.

NZ has some talent. NZ is ranked #2 in ODI cricket for a reason. Even without Taylor, McCleanghan and Southee, NZ is not an automatic minnow.

 

[ANTiLAG]

We won a world cup with Starc (world class), Hazlewood and Johnson (do the job) and a bunch of shitty allrounders.

I think the thing is all three stepped up at different times and then combined to squeeze the life out of NZ in the world cup final until Faulkner came along and took all the wickets that those three bowlers had built the pressure towards.

How are Maxwell, Faulkner, and Watson "sh!tty allrounders".

Do you realise how much extra batting depth that gives Australia?

Maxwell is rated in the top ten ODI batsmen. He is a weapon.

Watson, just look at his record, is a sublime ODI talent that Australians hate to give any credit too. He nigh single handledly won you the 2009 Champions trophy.

And Faulkner, is as good a closing bowler running around not named Mitchell Starc. MOTM in the world cup final, international superstar and you call him sh!tty?

 

[Pete Cash]

Yep, we have a very good side - excellent at home, and decent away. Most sides are very strong at home, and have more issues away - Australia included, regardless of who's available.

The Brisbane test made you lot think you were way better than us, you're not - Perth was even, and the result notwithstanding we had the better of most of Adelaide.
As you note, at the World Cup, each team won their home game (admittedly Starc bowled brilliantly and nearly stole the Eden park game from us) - but home advantage is huge, pretty simple - should be competitive cricket for the rest of the summer

Guy you lost the series 2-0 nobody cares how close it was. Australians don't care how well they played in a lost series :lol:

Maybe a difference in sporting culture.

EDIT

How many times in the series did you guys take 20 wickets in a match ? I believe it was zero times. Australia did it two out of 3 times.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Guy you lost the series 2-0 nobody cares how close it was. Australians don't care how well they played in a lost series :lol:

Maybe a difference in sporting culture.

That difference in culture being that NZ'ers do not run terrible umpiring decisions in the face of opposition fans?

EDIT: Australians using Adelaide as a source bragging rights is pathetic.

 

[Pete Cash]

God there are still NZ crying about a couple of umpiring decisions from a series 15 years ago. You are some of the most pathetic fans in existence. There is no global umpiring conspiracy against NZ. Sometimes umpires make mistakes. That is life. Sometimes they go with Australia, sometimes they don't.

Here are the facts we took 52 wickets for the series and bowled NZ out twice 2 out of 3 tests. NZ took 41 wickets and bowled Australia out twice in 0 of the 3 tests. Only taking a full ten wickets in an innings ONCE

 

[WaznTheGreat]

NZ have always been a dangerous side in ODI's ever since i was born,they can beat anyone in that format

 

[ANTiLAG]

God there are still NZ crying about a couple of umpiring decisions from a series 15 years ago. You are some of the most pathetic fans in existence. There is no global umpiring conspiracy against NZ. Sometimes umpires make mistakes. That is life. Sometimes they go with Australia, sometimes they don't.

Here are the facts we took 52 wickets for the series and bowled NZ out twice 2 out of 3 tests. NZ took 41 wickets and bowled Australia out twice in 0 of the 3 tests. Only taking a full ten wickets in an innings ONCE

Those facts still rest on the fact that Lyon's non dismissal meant NZ did not have quite enough time to get the 3 remaining wickets at Adelaide and tie the series 1-1.

But your views are confirming JJ's suspicions.

You actually think Australia is a far superior side to NZ.

Australia may be a better side than NZ in Australia, but not by much if the WACA and Adelaide matches are the yardstick - because NZ very nearly walked away from those two games 1-0 up but for the world's worst DRS decision.

Australia is not better than NZ in England, not in the UAE, and not in India, and we will see how Australia goes in NZ this tour. Australia are clear favourites with Taylor out injured, make no mistake, but Australian arrogance appears to be blinding you to how good NZ cricket really is.

Your batsman struggle with lateral movement. It is not a secret. It is known world wide. The cricket commentators globally are starting to asterisk Australian batting averages, with a "made most those runs on roads in Australia". NZ batsmen have done better than their Australian counterparts in England, India, and the UAE if the match results form any basis.

You can continue to see NZ as a minnow, that is fine, and with Ross Taylor out (Southee injured, and Boult playing below full fitness), Australia are favourites - but there is a contest on. If NZ is a minnow, then Australia is merely middling.

Or you can appreciate that this odi series is the two best limited overs teams in the world going at it, and that the test series is two very good teams going at it.