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1st ODI NZ v Australia 3 Feb 2016: Eden Park Auckland

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Why are you so crazy. Is it some kind of virus ?

adhominem.jpg
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,625
But he gets those wickets every 4 overs. And he makes runs at a higher SR than his bowling economy rate. Vital all round achiever.

But you're missing my point.
The stat's are amazing I know, but it doesn't stop him from being an average bowler.

No I was thinking of his T20 82 off 42 balls then opening the bowling and taking 2 for 17 off 3 overs to win NZ the series.

But good hitting in that ODI match against Pakistan that got the RRR down to something managable for the batsman after him. Did his job well.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/engine/match/914225.html

I don't rate T20 much but I'll give you this one.

Team of the ICC Cricket World Cup 2015 in batting order:

I remember that, Anderson's inclusion in this was high debatable
Copped lots of flak on various forums and comments sections.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
But you're missing my point.
The stat's are amazing I know, but it doesn't stop him from being an average bowler.



I don't rate T20 much but I'll give you this one.



I remember that, Anderson's inclusion in this was high debatable
Copped lots of flak on various forums and comments sections.

The stats are amazing. The stats are a record of his performances.

He is bloody effective. And has continued to be so.

It doesn't matter if you think he is the world's worst bowler and batsman, he is putting together match winning performances often enough, and contributing consistently enough to be a bloody good team balance selection.

His stats are amazing.

I really don't rate him a test prospect for probably the same reasons you don't rate him. But in ODI cricket, even if he is a troll, he is regularly assisting to winning NZ game by trolling. Every pull shot he trolls for 6, every half tracker he trolls on leg stump line that is skied to square leg or mid wicket and caught. (He actually gets swing with the white ball when he pitches up at not full pace).
 
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vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,625
I really don't rate him a test prospect for probably the same reasons you don't rate him. But in ODI cricket, even if he is a troll, he is regularly assisting to winning NZ game by trolling.

No one's really kicking down the door to replace him either.
Will leave this debate here.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
103,535
Well, I am sure McCullum would say that NZ played 2 spinners in that test and a half fit Boult. At some point, the spinners had to be bowled.

As for the decision being impossible to overturn, that is the entire point of the DRS system. To overturn clearly wrong decisions. Noone expected the tv third umpire to make such an absolute howler and misread the hotspot technology.

Why don't you pull the frame where the camera shows the ball creating the hot spot on the bat? If it's such an obvious case of a "clearly wrong" decision being f**ked up by a "howler" in the box, it should be an easy to thing to show the ball impacting the bat?

I'll save you the trouble, because that shot doesn't exist. Nigel Llong didn't make an error. DRS must show conclusively that the decision was wrong for the third umpire to overrule it. Llong, IIRC, even says something along the lines of "there is a mark on the bat but I cannot conclusively see that the ball made it." Thus, the rules of DRS state the original decision must stand.

Was it out? Almost certainly. Was it "clearly out" live? Not especially. Should it have been overturned? No. At least not under the current rule structure. Most importantly, did it cost NZ the game? Absolutely not. They fell apart and failed to get rid of the Australian tail all on their own.

You'll find I actually disagree with the current rules, I think it turns umpires into TV technicians and puts them at the mercy of the broadcaster and the camera angles they produce, as in this case. But to blame an umpire for the rules that constrain him and the absence of a suitable camera angle for the loss completely ignores, and to a point celebrates, the mental weakness NZ showed after the decision was made.

Think you are far superior side to NZ all you like as a result of Adelaide.

I think you might find I never said anything such thing, if you actually read.
 

Rod

Bench
Messages
3,752
Anderson was lucky to make that Cricket World Cup team, probably more of a reflection on the lack of world class all-rounders on the scene at the moment than anything.

He has done some very good things in his career already of course but he's still very hit-and-miss. I want to see more of the innings like he played against SA in the semi when our top order gets into a bit of strife, that was a great knock and showed that he can be more than just a basher.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Why don't you pull the frame where the camera shows the ball creating the hot spot on the bat? If it's such an obvious case of a "clearly wrong" decision being f**ked up by a "howler" in the box, it should be an easy to thing to show the ball impacting the bat?

I'll save you the trouble, because that shot doesn't exist. Nigel Llong didn't make an error. DRS must show conclusively that the decision was wrong for the third umpire to overrule it. Llong, IIRC, even says something along the lines of "there is a mark on the bat but I cannot conclusively see that the ball made it." Thus, the rules of DRS state the original decision must stand.

Was it out? Almost certainly. Was it "clearly out" live? Not especially. Should it have been overturned? No. At least not under the current rule structure. Most importantly, did it cost NZ the game? Absolutely not. They fell apart and failed to get rid of the Australian tail all on their own.

You'll find I actually disagree with the current rules, I think it turns umpires into TV technicians and puts them at the mercy of the broadcaster and the camera angles they produce, as in this case. But to blame an umpire for the rules that constrain him and the absence of a suitable camera angle for the loss completely ignores, and to a point celebrates, the mental weakness NZ showed after the decision was made.



I think you might find I never said anything such thing, if you actually read.

1448740529233.jpg


Oh the Ol' that hotspot could have come from anywhere. How about the fact that ball deviated after being visually right next to the bat? Was that a change in air pressure? Some gust of wind?

The ICC has already said that the wrong decision was made.

So if you want to defend Nigel Llong's mistake as being the right decision, take it up with his bosses who criticsed his mistake and said that he was wrong. While they're in charge of the rules, I'll believe them and not you.
 
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ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Anderson was lucky to make that Cricket World Cup team, probably more of a reflection on the lack of world class all-rounders on the scene at the moment than anything.

He has done some very good things in his career already of course but he's still very hit-and-miss. I want to see more of the innings like he played against SA in the semi when our top order gets into a bit of strife, that was a great knock and showed that he can be more than just a basher.

I'm content for him to continue performing the way he has done so far, and he will have been fantastic for NZ limited overs cricket. If he gets better, that is a bonus.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
103,535
All you've done is show a hotspot. Which I clearly said there was.

Once again, show me the point where the ball makes the hotspot.

As for the ICC, of course they'd hang the umpire out to dry rather than admit the rules were wrong. IIRC they did the same thing in the Broad/Khawaja case. You'll believe what makes you feel more justified in your outrage
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
All you've done is show a hotspot. Which I clearly said there was.

Once again, show me the point where the ball makes the hotspot.

As for the ICC, of course they'd hang the umpire out to dry rather than admit the rules were wrong. IIRC they did the same thing in the Broad/Khawaja case. You'll believe what makes you feel more justified in your outrage

I suggest you do some research here.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-new-zealand-2015-16/content/story/945125.html

http://www.cricket.com.au/news/icc-confirm-umpire-nigel-llong-got-drs-desicion-wrong-lyon-adelaide-pink-ball-day-night-test/2015-12-01

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/28/nathan-lyons-bizarre-drs-reprieve-turns-tide-for-australia-in-adelaide-test

And there is no 'almost certainly' about Lyon hitting it. He admits he hit it. You are the only person not quite certain of whether Lyon hit it.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/new-zealand-v-australia-2015-16/content/story/948373.html

The ball deviated on the video after hitting and passing the bat, there was a hot spot in the exact place where the ball observed to hit and pass the bat, what more do you want for your judgment? ICC has said that was out. Lyon said he hit it. How is the decision right? No snicko?
 
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