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1st Test: Australia v India at Chennai February 22-26 , 2013..

Earl

Coach
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16,804
Watson, Hughes, Warner, and Wade have proven time and time again that they are no good against spin.

They are all being exposed big time here and will continue to be throughout the series.

Cowan seems to have a plan and executed it fairly in the second innings. He just seems very limited and entirely incapable of batting for session after session which is a big issue. The way he got out in the first innings was astonishing and demonstrated a very poor temperament.

Henriques has been a revelation. I love how he was waiting for the ball to do it's thing and playing late. He was watching it like a hawk and using his feet stylishly. Hopefully his team mates were all in the sheds taking notes.

Clarke is great in all conditions but this isn't the bulldogs. We can't be a 'one man band' and he will eventually crack under the enormous pressure his less-than-worthy top order counterparts consistently create for him.

The most disgusting parts are that those nuffies have learnt nothing and have prepared very poorly for this tour. They should be playing the spinners much better than they are.
Also, it makes me sick how everyone is blaming our position in this game on Lyon. He has toiled hard in conditions that have historically been very bad for even our greatest of spinners.

The Indian spinners are being made to look good by extermely inept batting. Lyon unfortunately has to bowl to a team of players who are born and bred to play off spinners on wickets like this. Get some f**ken perspective and give the poor bastard a break. Warnie used to get tonked in India too. Would you have replaced him with Steve O'keefe?

/endrant

I agree with pretty much all of this.

While I tend to agree about being to harsh on Lyon, it is very easy to be critical on a bowler like him where everyone around him can see ways in which he may be able to improve but is too stubborn to take it on board.

I'm mainly referring to the pace he bowls at. I remember hearing him say during an interview that speed is something he looks at every over and he talks to Matt Wade and Michael Clarke about it. So I'm not sure if he is entirely responsible for it or whether Clarke and Wade are telling him high 80's, early 90's is the speed to be at.

Surely though he needs to be bowling in the low 80's. Thats what the Indians are doing.
 

Earl

Coach
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16,804
and lets not forget Nathan Lyon sings the team song now, so they can't drop him ;)

although f**k knows why the woodchopper wasn't given the duty.
 

Earl

Coach
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16,804
The last thing I want to do is add another post claiming we should send SOK over asap, but this article is a pretty good summation as to how harsh him not being there is.

AS SKIPPER MS Dhoni turned on his pyrotechnics show for India in the first Test, not so much dismantling the bowlers as brutalising them, it was only natural to shine a forensic torch on Australia's attack.

The myopic view was to say Australia were foolish for playing four pacemen on a Chennai deck so red and dusty yesterday it looked as if James Pattinson was bowling on Mars.

It would be easier still to sharpen the focus on Nathan Lyon, who seems to be interminably in the firing line even when he dismisses blokes with surnames Kohli and Tendulkar.

The problem is not necessarily the deployment of four quicks. Nor should critics point the finger at Lyon. The core issue is a flawed wider selection methodology - and how it robbed the touring party of Australia's best-performed domestic spinner this summer.

Steve O'Keefe's snubbing is one for the Bermuda Triangle files. The NSW skipper's omission was bizarre.

Already, four days into this four-Test series, Australia are paying a price. And while O'Keefe, a left-arm finger-spinner, may not have routed the Indians, his availability would have given the tourists something they desperately craved when Dhoni teed-off like Tiger Woods on Sunday.

Options . . . and balance.

Statistics can sometimes paint a distorted picture in sport, particularly in the data-rabid game that is cricket, but in the case of O'Keefe his numbers are not only emphatic but indisputable.

His selection for India should have been a no-brainer.

Consider this: O'Keefe has taken 17 wickets in the Sheffield Shield this summer, the same number as Lyon, Steve Smith, Glenn Maxwell and Xavier Doherty - the four spinners in India - combined.

Collectively, Lyon, Smith, Maxwell and Doherty's 17 Shield wickets have come at a costly 53.47. Their economy rate is 3.47 runs per over.

O'Keefe's equivalent haul came at 26.76. His economy rate is 2.20.

In other words, O'Keefe not only picks up wickets as frequently and twice as cheaply, but his ability to stem the flow of runs, so crucial in Indian conditions, is superior.

Despite his costly figures in Chennai, Lyon was by no means terrible. He got some balls to jump and his delivery which clean-bowled Tendulkar was a gem.

He could have benefited working in tandem with O'Keefe, whose left-armers would have given Australia different angles and variations.

India's top-six batsmen, Dhoni included, are right-handers. O'Keefe's natural turn and shape would have tested them.

There's more. Seven days before the squad for India was named, the tweaker returned match figures of 8-102 against Western Australia. That's one more wicket than Lyon managed in five games for the Redbacks this summer.

Even on a like-for-like basis, comparing O'Keefe strictly to his left-arm orthodox rival Doherty, there is no contest.

Doherty has taken two Shield wickets this summer at 80. His first-class average spanning a decade is 44.56.

O'Keefe averages 27.87 from 28 first-class games and, at 28, is two years younger than Doherty, who has performed best in the one-day arena, a format Australia will not play on this tour.

Granted, 'SOK' has yet to play Test cricket, but surely, like Doherty, Jason Krejza and Michael Beer, it is worth finding out if he has the goods.

Is there a deeper issue? Perhaps. The street-corner whisper is that O'Keefe is out of favour with some heavy hitters in Australian cricket. Ask Brad Hodge or Chris Rogers about the pitfalls of being Mr Unpopular at the selection table.

But if form is one barometer, O'Keefe ticked the box. If Sheffield Shield success is another, O'Keefe had to be on a plane to India.

That's not to say Australia erred completely by choosing four quicks in Chennai.

The selectors deserve credit for bravely backing James Pattinson, who was returning from injury, because history shows pace can prevail on the sub-continent.

The only two Australian teams to have won a Test series in India in the past 53 years took more than 50 per cent of their wickets utilising quicks.

In 2004, Adam Gilchrist's fast men claimed 43 of Australia's 68 wickets. In 1969, Bill Lawry relied on his speedsters to take 45 of 86 wickets in a 3-1 rout.

On the eve of this Test, Australian hierarchy said they opted for four quicks to play to their strengths. By not selecting O'Keefe to tour in the first place, they ostensibly narrowed their options before a ball was bowled.

The general belief is that Australia didn't have the requisite quality or depth to justify playing two spinners in Chennai.

They did. The problem is they left one at home.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...ue-for-australia/story-fn67x2wp-1226585455878
 

Canard

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O'Keefe has taken 17 wickets in the Sheffield Shield this summer, the same number as Lyon, Steve Smith, Glenn Maxwell and Xavier Doherty - the four spinners in India - combined.

Is this just fudging of stats though? Im guessing Lyon wouldn't have played the amount of Shield games O'Keefe did?

I reckon we have a few more issues then just needing one more mediocre spinner to be selected in the 11.
 
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2,137
Is this just fudging of stats though? Im guessing Lyon wouldn't have played the amount of Shield games O'Keefe did?

I reckon we have a few more issues then just needing one more mediocre spinner to be selected in the 11.

"Collectively, Lyon, Smith, Maxwell and Doherty's 17 Shield wickets have come at a costly 53.47. Their economy rate is 3.47 runs per over.

O'Keefe's equivalent haul came at 26.76. His economy rate is 2.20."
 

Canard

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35,967
"Collectively, Lyon, Smith, Maxwell and Doherty's 17 Shield wickets have come at a costly 53.47. Their economy rate is 3.47 runs per over.

O'Keefe's equivalent haul came at 26.76. His economy rate is 2.20."

Yep thats economy, but statistics can be useless without a decent sample size.

Im no Lyon fan, but if he only played 2 Shield games to O'Keefes 8 or whatever its not really much of a apples for apples comparison is it?

Ive tried to find individual player Shield stats but its bloody difficult on the ACB page
 

vvvrulz

Coach
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13,629
This could sound silly but, what happened to Krejza?
12 wickets on debut in India, surely even he would be better than Lyon.
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
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62,358
This test should be stricken from the records.

That pitch is a f**king disgrace.

Lyon showed his worth, if he could only get 3/200 odd on that wicket, then he's not much of a spinner.
 

Didgi

Moderator
Messages
17,260
Yep thats economy, but statistics can be useless without a decent sample size.

Im no Lyon fan, but if he only played 2 Shield games to O'Keefes 8 or whatever its not really much of a apples for apples comparison is it?

Ive tried to find individual player Shield stats but its bloody difficult on the ACB page

Bowler M Wkts Avg Best
Steve O'Keefe 7 17 26.76 4-47
Nathan Hauritz 5 13 34.07 5-135
Ashton Agar 3 12 28.33 3-47
Adam Zampa 3 10 23.90 3-17
Michael Beer 4 8 46.37 3-88
Nathan Lyon 5 7 71.42 2-42
Glenn Maxwell 3 7 25.42 4-42
Xavier Doherty 4 2 80.00 1-15
Steve Smith 5 1 71.00 1-16
 

Earl

Coach
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16,804
Yep thats economy, but statistics can be useless without a decent sample size.

Im no Lyon fan, but if he only played 2 Shield games to O'Keefes 8 or whatever its not really much of a apples for apples comparison is it?

Ive tried to find individual player Shield stats but its bloody difficult on the ACB page

He has played 5. Its in the article

There's more. Seven days before the squad for India was named, the tweaker returned match figures of 8-102 against Western Australia. That's one more wicket than Lyon managed in five games for the Redbacks this summer.
 

Canard

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Furry muff.

Does anyone think he would be the difference between us being a No.3 or a No.1 team however?

I reckon we have bigger issues than just one spinner.
 

HevyDevy

Coach
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17,146
Noone is suggesting that if SOK plays we're suddenly No.1 in the world, just that we have one spinner in the country clearly knocking the door down for selection yet we pick three guys averaging 71, 80 and 71 this season instead.

So yes the problem is much bigger than one spinner - the problem is that our selectors are mentally geniused.
 

Canard

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Im not disagreeing there, but I reckon our batsmen are getting a free ride with the forum at the moment.
 

HevyDevy

Coach
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Haddin should have been selected as a batsmen the second Hussey announced his retirement,

But here's the thing: you pick Haddin as a specialist batsman and you now have Haddin and Wade in the same team. If you've got that option, why would you give the gloves to Wade? And if you give the gloves to Haddin, does this then make Wade the specialist batsman? He doesn't deserve that role.
 

JJ

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Im not disagreeing there, but I reckon our batsmen are getting a free ride with the forum at the moment.

Agreed - batting first you had control, and 380 was not going to cut it... India had an opening, and took it... no question Lyon's not great, but it started with a below par 1st innings and went downhill in the second..
 

vvvrulz

Coach
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13,629
Im not disagreeing there, but I reckon our batsmen are getting a free ride with the forum at the moment.

Have you not been paying attention to the piles of hate directed at Sunshine, HAH and Scissorhands?
I don't even know what those names mean although Scissorhands speaks for itself.

And while I'm on the subject, where the hell did "Notch" come from?
 
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vvvrulz

Coach
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13,629
If Australia squeeze another 50 or so runs and get India 3-4 down, they can take a moral victory from that.
 

HevyDevy

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Im not disagreeing there, but I reckon our batsmen are getting a free ride with the forum at the moment.

I don't think they've been given a free ride but certainly there are too many living on potential alone. That said, I want Khawaja in the side and he hasn't scaled any great heights yet, but still ...

Cowan and Watson frustrate me more than any other players. Cowan gets a start pretty much every time he bats but just can't seem to keep it going. And Watson ... enough said. I'll give HAH benefit of the doubt given that he had a good summer in Australia and copped a wicked delivery in the second innings here.
 
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