2010 Crowd Watch

[King Tigerman]

stgeorge should play their home games at bigger stadiums , but they love kogarah too much and too many people say sack the board for thinking of moving a game away from there , if the fans had their way theyd give wollongong the flick

 

[elbusto]

Don't get me started on this one! Dragons have made some of the dumbest decisions in recent years.

Interesting that such a successful Club can play in such small stadiums. I do not understand this at all.

 

[Saint Doc]

I agree in some ways about us limited ourself by playing in smaller stadiums, but there are so many other benefits.

We have over 15,000 members, and well over 10,000 tickets members compared to what, 2 or 3000 Roosters members up the road at the SFS. Part of that reason is that people want to guarantee their tickets due to the number of sellouts, the want to secure the best seats, the atmosphere at smaller grounds is superior etc. We also have very favourable financial deals in terms of food and beverage sales, signage etc.

Ive always wondered why you'd bother becoming a member of the Roosters. For any club there is only a very very small percentage of fans who attend every single game, week in, week out. So the "financial saving" isn't enough to get people to buy memberships. You need to value add. And that means, in our case, people buying memberships due because they need to in order to guarantee good seats, or to guarantee tickets for the big sellout games.

 

[elbusto]

I agree in some ways about us limited ourself by playing in smaller stadiums, but there are so many other benefits.

We have over 15,000 members, and well over 10,000 tickets members compared to what, 2 or 3000 Roosters members up the road at the SFS. Part of that reason is that people want to guarantee their tickets due to the number of sellouts, the want to secure the best seats, the atmosphere at smaller grounds is superior etc. We also have very favourable financial deals in terms of food and beverage sales, signage etc.

Ive always wondered why you'd bother becoming a member of the Roosters. For any club there is only a very very small percentage of fans who attend every single game, week in, week out. So the "financial saving" isn't enough to get people to buy memberships. You need to value add. And that means, in our case, people buying memberships due because they need to in order to guarantee good seats, or to guarantee tickets for the big sellout games.

Great reply mate.Just a pity that the Saints do not get 30000 to the big games when they deserve them.

 

[CC_Roosters]

I agree in some ways about us limited ourself by playing in smaller stadiums, but there are so many other benefits.

We have over 15,000 members, and well over 10,000 tickets members compared to what, 2 or 3000 Roosters members up the road at the SFS. Part of that reason is that people want to guarantee their tickets due to the number of sellouts, the want to secure the best seats, the atmosphere at smaller grounds is superior etc. We also have very favourable financial deals in terms of food and beverage sales, signage etc.

Ive always wondered why you'd bother becoming a member of the Roosters. For any club there is only a very very small percentage of fans who attend every single game, week in, week out. So the "financial saving" isn't enough to get people to buy memberships. You need to value add. And that means, in our case, people buying memberships due because they need to in order to guarantee good seats, or to guarantee tickets for the big sellout games.

What you say is true but the Roosters have better potential to maximise the revenue when the good times are rolling. If they put a few good seasons together in say the top 4 with a good playoff run and membership drive i would expect the ticketed members base to double. The Dragons restrict themselves playing in 2 small stadia which limit their potential earnings when they are going strong as in now. On that what room or scope is there to further increase capacity at Kogarah, say another seated stand?

I appreciate that the Dragons are staying close to their heartland and do it well, but would the fans really be that pissed if they scheduled 1 or 2 blockbusters at the SFS, say V Parra and/or Souths? It would do your finances good and create a better spectacle for the league as a whole.

 

[fourplay]

Anyone else think the NRL and the clubs don't do enough to promote games?

If you're not already an NRL fan or someone who actively seeks the draw to find out when your teams playing, you likely wouldn't ever know when they are playing.

In contrast the Sydney Swans advertising has been ridiculous. I have probably been confronted with more Swans commercials on TV in just the last two weeks than the amount of times I saw the NRL season launch ad. They have big ads in the paper everyday, and this was the Daily telegraph website yesterday...

I would love to know their advertising budget.

 

[CC_Roosters]

Anyone else think the NRL and the clubs don't do enough to promote games?

If you're not already an NRL fan or someone who actively seeks the draw to find out when your teams playing, you likely wouldn't ever know when they are playing.

In contrast the Sydney Swans advertising has been ridiculous. I have probably been confronted with more Swans commercials on TV in just the last two weeks than the amount of times I saw the NRL season launch ad. They have big ads in the paper everyday, and this was the Daily telegraph website yesterday...

I would love to know their advertising budget.

i think advertising costs a lot of money which is something most NRL clubs don't have a surplus of. I imagine when the leagues finances are sorted out by the tv deal etc.... we should see a lot more intense advertising by clubs and the NRL.

Credit to the Swans and AFL they do the business side of sport pretty well

 

[Cheesie-the-Pirate]

Interesting that such a successful Club can play in such small stadiums. I do not understand this at all.

It's not that hard to understand. We tend to forget that in this regard Australia is the exception, not the rule. In most football leagues/codes in the world teams would never even consider taking home games to large neutral central stadiums.

Obviously the club would prefer to play in a 22k ground rather than an 18k one. Work is already underway in Wollongong to get that done. There is a masterplan well underway to get this done at Kogarah. Out of all the Sydney-based teams the club is clearly the leader for improving stadia (clubs like GC, Melbourne, Newcastle are ahead of us, but obviously there are other factors at play for those clubs). It's a forward-looking plan based on the obvious fact that if we can invest in the local grounds now we will benefit in the future.

 

[Timmah]

The Swans are promoting their ass off this ANZ Stadium game because they're desperate to increase crowds there. There was a figure of 19k there last year IIRC and 31k earlier this year, both poor crowds by Swans standards at the ground previously, I think the average there since they started playing there in 2003 is around 45k, so the current figures are well down on that.

 

[Brutus]

Saints need a Tigers type split.

Play games at SFS 4, Kogarah 4 and the Gong 4.

 

[Saint Doc]

I totally agree that at Saints we aren't maximising our crowds at the moment. But there are a number of issues to consider:

Financial viability is a big one. To exist year in,year out, clubs are realising they need to depend on memberships. If you depend on big blockbuster games for your cash flow, what happens when you have a couple of bad years in a row? What happens when it rains like cats and dogs for the week before your blockbuster? There are so many examples of this...but to name one recent one, Tigers vs Bulldogs at ANZ should be a 30,000 crowd minimum, but got 11,000 a few weeks ago (due to rain and, perhaps, form), well below what both club would expect to get even against an out of town team . For us, its about establishing a culture of membership. Its about getting people into the habit of signing up, and then it just becomes a renewal issue. What people dont understand is that moving a blockbuster might result in short term gain but long term pain, because it undermines the whole thing. You've got no idea how many people sign up for Kogarah memberships BECAUSE it is kogarah. There was a protest vote of not becoming members in 2008 at ANZ to send a strong message to the club that we didnt want to be based there. If you undermine that, and at the last minute change a blockbuster away from home, then it gives people a reason not to sign up. Whats the point in being a member to "guarantee your seat" if they're just going to move it anyway?

Then you've got the old home ground advantage line. I won't flog this dead horse but, despite the result in the end, I'm sure Parra would have been ecstatic if we'd moved our home final to the SFS. Whilst it (obviously) doesnt guarantee you a win, if its a 5% better chance, we'll take it.

Also, a commitment to the stadium will bode well for future redevelopment. The Bulldogs and Souths never stood a chance of getting Belmore and Redfern redeveloped to a suitable standard to be full time home grounds in my opinion because they abandoned ship. If you show a commitment to your area, and demonstrate a need for development (through sellouts) you stand a much bigger chance of getting it (unless you're Manly).

Finally, we're a complicated club because we have two home cities. Where as other clubs, like say the Dogs, can take a game to Adelaide and a game to Brisbane and its barely noticed, if you take one of the six games away from either Kogarah or Wollongong, its noticed and missed.

I know I've gotten off topic and gone down a membership/stadium topic rather than crowds. I love big crowds as much as everyone, and would be lying if I wasn't jealous when Canterbury, Souths, Tigers and Roosters get those occasional massive 30-40,000 crowds at ANZ/SFS. And I bloody love the see of red and white on ANZAC Day. But I'm very happy with the direction the club is taking with regard to our home grounds.

If only we could sort the jersey disasters out and win a finals match!!

 

[gho]

Saints need a Tigers type split.

Play games at SFS 4, Kogarah 4 and the Gong 4.

I dont think that would be financially viable, every decade or so clubs with government financial support have to invest tens of millions of dollars into their stadiums, for just 4 games a year i dont think this would be sensible.

I think this is why Melbourne has so much better sporting facilities compared to Sydney. Its easier for the government to justify putting money into stadiums if theyre going to be used for numerous games a week rather than once every 4 weeks (Kogarah and WIN) or every 6 weeks (leichardt and campbelltown)

 

[Perth Red]

most clubs have little incentive to increase crowds as they are on a set fee from the stadiums regardless of how many turn up. What does surprise me is that the stadiums themselves don;t do more promotion as they are the ones missing out on the money.

 

[CC_Roosters]

I totally agree that at Saints we aren't maximising our crowds at the moment. But there are a number of issues to consider:

Financial viability is a big one. To exist year in,year out, clubs are realising they need to depend on memberships. If you depend on big blockbuster games for your cash flow, what happens when you have a couple of bad years in a row? What happens when it rains like cats and dogs for the week before your blockbuster? There are so many examples of this...but to name one recent one, Tigers vs Bulldogs at ANZ should be a 30,000 crowd minimum, but got 11,000 a few weeks ago (due to rain and, perhaps, form), well below what both club would expect to get even against an out of town team . For us, its about establishing a culture of membership. Its about getting people into the habit of signing up, and then it just becomes a renewal issue. What people dont understand is that moving a blockbuster might result in short term gain but long term pain, because it undermines the whole thing. You've got no idea how many people sign up for Kogarah memberships BECAUSE it is kogarah. There was a protest vote of not becoming members in 2008 at ANZ to send a strong message to the club that we didnt want to be based there. If you undermine that, and at the last minute change a blockbuster away from home, then it gives people a reason not to sign up. Whats the point in being a member to "guarantee your seat" if they're just going to move it anyway?

Then you've got the old home ground advantage line. I won't flog this dead horse but, despite the result in the end, I'm sure Parra would have been ecstatic if we'd moved our home final to the SFS. Whilst it (obviously) doesnt guarantee you a win, if its a 5% better chance, we'll take it.

Also, a commitment to the stadium will bode well for future redevelopment. The Bulldogs and Souths never stood a chance of getting Belmore and Redfern redeveloped to a suitable standard to be full time home grounds in my opinion because they abandoned ship. If you show a commitment to your area, and demonstrate a need for development (through sellouts) you stand a much bigger chance of getting it (unless you're Manly).

Finally, we're a complicated club because we have two home cities. Where as other clubs, like say the Dogs, can take a game to Adelaide and a game to Brisbane and its barely noticed, if you take one of the six games away from either Kogarah or Wollongong, its noticed and missed.

Well reasoned post. There are definitly other clubs in a worst situation than Saints for stadia (cronulla, Manly) with less scope for improvement in the short term. It would be good to keep the history and heritage of suburban grounds and hopefully when the games structure and finances are sorted out, the league should be in a better position to contribute to stadia upgrades alongside federal and state monies.

 

[flamin]

Perhaps better to go 5-5 and 2 for the SFS to start with so as not to upset traditionalists. And give the 5 game ticket holders access to both SFS games.

 

[Red Bear]

St George - Wests - 18K
Penrith - Manly - 20K
Parra - Brisbane - 14K
Nt Qld vs Cronulla - 12K
Souths vs Melbourne - 16K
Sydney Roosters vs NZ - 15K (hopefully more, ground holds a fair bit).
Gold Coast - Newcaslte - 15K
Canberra vs Canterbury - 10K (Monday night football in Canberra, crowd graveyard).

 

[dgsfan]

16574 at Kograh

 

[Cumberland Throw]

ordinary crowd at penrith,,, what the f**k do people of the nepean need to get to the footy...

Lucky to be 15k

They are running second you 2 headed f**ks,,, get away from the pokies for a night

 

[CC_Roosters]

14,978 at Penrtih. Decent effort but would have thought it would have been in 16-18k range given their form and style of playing at the moment

 

[Cumberland Throw]

ordinary crowd at penrith,,, what the f**k do people of the nepean need to get to the footy...

Lucky to be 15k

They are running second you 2 headed f**ks,,, get away from the pokies for a night