2010 Crowd Watch

[m0nty]

Yeah Saturday arvo people - particularly families - are otherwise occupied with things like kids sports and getting ready for whatever they're doing Saturday night, hell - it's essentially a sixth working day in many jobs now.

tbh that's a pissweak excuse. Does it take you all day to get ready to go down the Cross, Timmah? Wait, that may be a leading question.

 

[Timmah]

Storm have only been around for just over ten years and are up against the AFL and get no support from the media. To get the biggest crowd in this round so far is fantastic. Two NRL teams from Sydney should pull more than 25K.The AFL does in Melbourne when two Victorian teams play against each other. so why don,t Sydney teams?

There's still two games left this weekend, one of them between two of the biggest clubs in Sydney, with the potential to break the 25k barrier.

As for your assertion about AFL teams, there's no comparison. The AFL's membership drive went skywards a decade or more ago, the NRL's only just getting into now. Plus stadium centralisation has helped massively, along with a better public transport system.

tbh that's a pissweak excuse. Does it take you all day to get ready to go down the Cross, Timmah? Wait, that may be a leading question.

Pisstake acknowledged - but do you seriously think women don't attend footy?

And of all the excuses you decided to have a go at, you chose that one. Never mind the other two which are completely valid...

 

[m0nty]

Pisstake acknowledged - but do you seriously think women don't attend footy?

And of all the excuses you decided to have a go at, you chose that one. Never mind the other two which are completely valid...

Yes, women attend footy, but they're not all going out on Saturday night as well. A lot of them are mothers who are staying in with or without their kids. Or they've only got enough budget for a day at the footy, not a night out as well.

As for kids sports... aren't many of them well finished by 2 or 3pm? For those that are not, that's a serious problem for rugby league and should be something looked at by the IC. Yes, I'm serious. Pushing back junior games to earlier in the day to allow attendance at NRL games is something that only an IC could enforce, and it would be good for the game.

 

[Timmah]

At which point you then run into trouble with councils and ground hire and of course trying to fit in the many games that need to be dealt with... not to mention kids playing other sports that an RL IC would have no control over.

Even so, you run into the problem then that senior games normally take place in the arvo, stopping hundreds if not thousands of adults from going.

 

[Teddyboy]

Pretty damn good weekend crowd wise.

I dont know if Saturday Arvo is a great time slot week to week, but im sure a few games a year could capitalize on some crowds. Heap of people playing sport all day Saturday though.

Need a 3rd Sunday Afternoon game though.

Thats fact always bothered me with you either played sport on a saturday or watched it live or on tv but never both.

 

[big_matt]

Is the reality not just that people from sydney (for whatever reason) are just not that into going to a rugby league game on the weekend? Are we seriously saying that crowds are being adversely affected by women needing time to get ready for a night out and therefore not attending games?? I think what we need to work out to improve our attendances are why these are problems are unique to the nrl. Imagine if soccer fans in the uk didnt attend games when it rains or when thet have to change train. They would playing in empty grounds up and down the country.

At the risk of being called an afl troll again, the afl teams must have fans who have young kids, have fans who are female and go on nights out, and have fans who get home late at night from games. Dont get me wrong, i fully understand how expensive a game is now and how hard some families are doing it but what puzzles me is that fans of other sports dont seem to need all the excuses we do. On this thread we've said 8:30 pm games are no good, monday night games are no good, saturday games are no good and 5:30 kickoffs are no good. So how do we get round that? Schedule every single game for early sundat afternoons? Not possible. I just think if people are determined to go to games they can find a way to do it. But we are really scraping the barrel of excuses now saying women arent going cause they need to get ready for a night out.

I know ill get called an afl troll etc for this post but im not and would welcome constructive ideas on how to improve things.

 

[Kurt Angle]

If you've seen Melbourne women, you realise they don't take any time making themselves look pretty to go out at night.

 

[20knights10]

Well its a pretty stupid f**king question then isn't it. NSW has 11 sides, and there are only 5 outside. Even if they draw less on average overall, through sheer amount of matches, they will always be in front.

It's only stupid if you want it to reflect that Sydney siders are not as into their Rugby League teams as those outside of NSW, which obviously is the point of those who only consider individual team's crowd numbers. As shown by the crowd numbers so far a higher percentage of the population from the Sydney area attend games than the percentage of the populations of all the non-NSW teams. Some Broncos supporters bleat on about the poor crowd figures for Sydney but don't consider that the numbers are comparable if not noticeably better than their own crowd numbers when put into perspective.

 

[Timmah]

Is the reality not just that people from sydney (for whatever reason) are just not that into going to a rugby league game on the weekend? Are we seriously saying that crowds are being adversely affected by women needing time to get ready for a night out and therefore not attending games?? I think what we need to work out to improve our attendances are why these are problems are unique to the nrl. Imagine if soccer fans in the uk didnt attend games when it rains or when thet have to change train. They would playing in empty grounds up and down the country.

At the risk of being called an afl troll again, the afl teams must have fans who have young kids, have fans who are female and go on nights out, and have fans who get home late at night from games. Dont get me wrong, i fully understand how expensive a game is now and how hard some families are doing it but what puzzles me is that fans of other sports dont seem to need all the excuses we do. On this thread we've said 8:30 pm games are no good, monday night games are no good, saturday games are no good and 5:30 kickoffs are no good. So how do we get round that? Schedule every single game for early sundat afternoons? Not possible. I just think if people are determined to go to games they can find a way to do it. But we are really scraping the barrel of excuses now saying women arent going cause they need to get ready for a night out.

I know ill get called an afl troll etc for this post but im not and would welcome constructive ideas on how to improve things.

Pretty f**king pissweak from you, just like m0nty before you, to focus on my point about women attending footy and reasons why they might not and pretty much completely ignoring my other two points. Furthermore, you've missed the context the points were made in - both of which were in reference to a call for Saturday afternoon footy to return.

Your carry on indicates people aren't attending games anymore, which couldn't be further from the truth. The truth is the building of membership in clubs is having a positive effect on crowds - while we aren't breaking any records yet (2005 wasn't breaking many records after four rounds), there is yet to be a crowd below 10,000 after four rounds (there's almost zero chance of that happening tonight) and the trend may very well continue into next week. Even Cronulla are getting crowds of 13,000 in the rain which two or three years ago is unheard of.

Your constant "sky is falling" posts are, as you have predictably admitted, thinly veiled AFL trolling. Comparing the two crowds sports is really quite stupid and a pathetic way to try and belittle league's importance. It has the potential to have weekly sell-outs and 40k+ crowds on a regular basis at ANZ etc, but it needs time and you're hellbent on not giving it.

 

[Timmah]

It's only stupid if you want it to reflect that Sydney siders are not as into their Rugby League teams as those outside of NSW, which obviously is the point of those who only consider individual team's crowd numbers. As shown by the crowd numbers so far a higher percentage of the population from the Sydney area attend games than the percentage of the populations of all the non-NSW teams. Some Broncos supporters bleat on about the poor crowd figures for Sydney but don't consider that the numbers are comparable if not noticeably better than their own crowd numbers when put into perspective.

If we NSW supporters wanted to turn the tables we could argue that in proportion, the Broncos should have 52,000 crowds on a weekly basis (they average 20,000 less than that roughly), the Titans 26,000 (they averaged 19k-odd last year and are currently somewhere around 13k), and the Cowboys 24k (they're nowhere near that, 17k maybe in '09, even less in 2010).

But yeah, keep laying the boot into Sydney which has stayed solid without being spectacular...

 

[fanatique]

If we NSW supporters wanted to turn the tables we could argue that in proportion, the Broncos should have 52,000 crowds on a weekly basis (they average 20,000 less than that roughly), the Titans 26,000 (they averaged 19k-odd last year and are currently somewhere around 13k), and the Cowboys 24k (they're nowhere near that, 17k maybe in '09, even less in 2010).

But yeah, keep laying the boot into Sydney which has stayed solid without being spectacular...

Frankly I hate the NSW V Qld crowd debate but being a Walian fan let's be fair. One state has 10 teams. The other 3. As a percentage of population Welshies are at least as likely, probably more so, to support their team as Qlanders. That is a statistical fact.

 

[fanatique]

There was a bay of them at the Lockett end and plenty scattered around the rest of the ground. For a team 1000km away it was a phenomenal showing.

The Dragons when up and about will do that. They have more away support than anyone else. Averaged nearly 23,000 away last season. I would applaud Melbourne for breaking 25K but they would not have done it against any club other than an up and about Dragons.

 

[big_matt]

Pretty f**king pissweak from you, just like m0nty before you, to focus on my point about women attending footy and reasons why they might not and pretty much completely ignoring my other two points. Furthermore, you've missed the context the points were made in - both of which were in reference to a call for Saturday afternoon footy to return.

Your carry on indicates people aren't attending games anymore, which couldn't be further from the truth. The truth is the building of membership in clubs is having a positive effect on crowds - while we aren't breaking any records yet (2005 wasn't breaking many records after four rounds), there is yet to be a crowd below 10,000 after four rounds (there's almost zero chance of that happening tonight) and the trend may very well continue into next week. Even Cronulla are getting crowds of 13,000 in the rain which two or three years ago is unheard of.

Your constant "sky is falling" posts are, as you have predictably admitted, thinly veiled AFL trolling. Comparing the two crowds sports is really quite stupid and a pathetic way to try and belittle league's importance. It has the potential to have weekly sell-outs and 40k+ crowds on a regular basis at ANZ etc, but it needs time and you're hellbent on not giving it.

So you make the comment about women needing to get ready instead of attending games, but no-one is allowed to comment on how ridiculous it is?

And why is comparing our league crowds with other sports "stupid"?

To increase the crowds we need to do something about it, not just hope and cross our fingers that they improve. There are about 25 excuses on this thread about why the crowds are dissapointing and the excuses are now getting truly bizarre. But yea lets keep our heads in the sand and get defensive any time someone mentions that crowds are dissapointing!

If you want to answer my questions instead of just calling me an idiot, i'd be genuinely interested in why you think nrl crowds are more affected by weather, kick-off time etc than other sports, and how we attempt to change that.

 

[big_matt]

The Dragons when up and about will do that. They have more away support than anyone else. Averaged nearly 23,000 away last season. I would applaud Melbourne for breaking 25K but they would not have done it against any club other than an up and about Dragons.

I was at the game and was very impressed with the amount of dragons fans, but i disagree with the above a little bit. I reckon against the warriors we'll get bigger crowd and a season home opener against the broncs would have done well also.

 

[Timmah]

So you make the comment about women needing to get ready instead of attending games, but no-one is allowed to comment on how ridiculous it is?

And why is comparing our league crowds with other sports "stupid"?

To increase the crowds we need to do something about it, not just hope and cross our fingers that they improve. There are about 25 excuses on this thread about why the crowds are dissapointing and the excuses are now getting truly bizarre. But yea lets keep our heads in the sand and get defensive any time someone mentions that crowds are dissapointing!

If you want to answer my questions instead of just calling me an idiot, i'd be genuinely interested in why you think nrl crowds are more affected by weather, kick-off time etc than other sports, and how we attempt to change that.

You're welcome to comment on how ridiculous you think it might be, but to take it and focus on it, whilst ignoring the other completely valid points I made, makes your entire argument a farce.

I stated quite clearly why comparing ourselves to AFL was stupid - the AFL have had a strategic membership drive in place for well over a decade, almost two decades now - hence the massive crowds. The NRL has only just realised that memberships will the club lifeblood in the coming decades and are doing the push now. Expecting change overnight like you seem to is ludicrous and short-sighted.

You seem to offer a lot of criticism with little solution, just like many of the trolls we had last year. If you are so damn sure NRL's crowds are woeful, in a state of decline or just not up to your standards, then be part of the solution instead of waxing lyrical about it.

 

[big_matt]

You're welcome to comment on how ridiculous you think it might be, but to take it and focus on it, whilst ignoring the other completely valid points I made, makes your entire argument a farce.

I stated quite clearly why comparing ourselves to AFL was stupid - the AFL have had a strategic membership drive in place for well over a decade, almost two decades now - hence the massive crowds. The NRL has only just realised that memberships will the club lifeblood in the coming decades and are doing the push now. Expecting change overnight like you seem to is ludicrous and short-sighted.

You seem to offer a lot of criticism with little solution, just like many of the trolls we had last year. If you are so damn sure NRL's crowds are woeful, in a state of decline or just not up to your standards, then be part of the solution instead of waxing lyrical about it.

Im one of the only people who has repeatedly asked on here how we can improve crowds. That's trying to be part of a solution. I also am a member of the storm. Thats directly part of the solution. I took two people to the storm game on friday who have never been to a league game and loved it. But because im concerned about crowds you class me as an afl fan. Ive never said crowds should go up overnight, but if im correct they have been down a bit so far this year and after the biggest membership drive in history thats a worry. For me it is anyway, and im entitled to that opinion. There are also plenty others on this thread noting crowds they consider poor. Its not just me.

I agree with a lot of the points you make re crowds, and perhaps because i grew up watching celtic in glasgow where the same crowd turned up whether sun rain or flat out blizzard means i find the weather excuses so strange.

But again, instead of all the excuses on here i'd be far more interested in what we do to raise crowds. If people genuinely wont go on a saturday or monday or late at night then how do we fix that, or how do we work around it? And if rain stops people going how do we fix that? Do we need better stadia?

Overall i'd rather hear 'yea the crowd was dissapointing but this is how we can fix it' rather than 'the crowd was bad but its because a change of trains was required' etc.

 

[big_matt]

I'd also add that the nrl needs to be taking the genuine concerns about game times and promotion on board or the membership drive results wont be fully maximised. Ie its great getting 1000 extra members but if none of them turn up to the saturday games because their kids are playing sport or whatever then the club and the game still misses out on the peripheral money to be made

 

[beave]

If we NSW supporters wanted to turn the tables we could argue that in proportion, the Broncos should have 52,000 crowds on a weekly basis (they average 20,000 less than that roughly), the Titans 26,000 (they averaged 19k-odd last year and are currently somewhere around 13k), and the Cowboys 24k (they're nowhere near that, 17k maybe in '09, even less in 2010).

But yeah, keep laying the boot into Sydney which has stayed solid without being spectacular...

why 'should' we have 24k????

Tvl is a city of 180k and we rely on people coming from towns 2-3hours away (and some 10 hours away in Mt Isa'a case) to help bolster our crowd numbers. Penrith has a population that is roughly the same as Townsville, but with the luxury of away fans being able to turn up and help the numbers, but you wouldn't be calling for them to be averaging 24k.

We have minimal away fans fly up here, 90% of the crowds (bar the brisbane game) is pretty much purely cows fans.


I think a lot of you lads down south expect far too much from people up here, considering how poor we have been over the last 2 years, our performances last year and the year before was some of the most pathetic football from this club I had seen since their inception. I think if Henry continues to give the young guys a shot, and we see improving performances, you will see 20k averages up here, 24k averages is a bit optimistic mate.

 

[Timmah]

why 'should' we have 24k????

Tvl is a city of 180k and we rely on people coming from towns 2-3hours away (and some 10 hours away in Mt Isa'a case) to help bolster our crowd numbers. Penrith has a population that is roughly the same as Townsville, but with the luxury of away fans being able to turn up and help the numbers, but you wouldn't be calling for them to be averaging 24k.

We have minimal away fans fly up here, 90% of the crowds (bar the brisbane game) is pretty much purely cows fans.


I think a lot of you lads down south expect far too much from people up here, considering how poor we have been over the last 2 years, our performances last year and the year before was some of the most pathetic football from this club I had seen since their inception. I think if Henry continues to give the young guys a shot, and we see improving performances, you will see 20k averages up here, 24k averages is a bit optimistic mate.

You've hit my nail on the head mate. There are reasons for many clubs to not have fantastic crowds. My point was to demonstrate proportional representation and you've done tht perfectly. I don't expect the Cowboys to fill DFS - hell most of their crowds double what the Fury pull in anyway.

I just used QLD crowds from this year thus far to illustrate the fact that NSW as a whole isn't going too badly.

 

[Timmah]

I'd also add that the nrl needs to be taking the genuine concerns about game times and promotion on board or the membership drive results wont be fully maximised. Ie its great getting 1000 extra members but if none of them turn up to the saturday games because their kids are playing sport or whatever then the club and the game still misses out on the peripheral money to be made

I think you've missed the context of the discussion. The "excuses" which you've tried to lay into me for were in response to a claim that Saturday 3pm was a viable timeslot. It wasn't 5 years ago when they dumped it in favour of the 5:30-7:30 Super Saturday arrangement and it just as likely won't be now.

The current mix of games is fine, however shifting one of the Saturday matches to Sunday afternoon would be a good move IMO. Monday nights are already been focused on by the NRL and they've allocated $$$ to clubs to help promote MNF.

Im one of the only people who has repeatedly asked on here how we can improve crowds. That's trying to be part of a solution. I also am a member of the storm. Thats directly part of the solution. I took two people to the storm game on friday who have never been to a league game and loved it. But because im concerned about crowds you class me as an afl fan. Ive never said crowds should go up overnight, but if im correct they have been down a bit so far this year and after the biggest membership drive in history thats a worry. For me it is anyway, and im entitled to that opinion. There are also plenty others on this thread noting crowds they consider poor. Its not just me.

I agree with a lot of the points you make re crowds, and perhaps because i grew up watching celtic in glasgow where the same crowd turned up whether sun rain or flat out blizzard means i find the weather excuses so strange.

But again, instead of all the excuses on here i'd be far more interested in what we do to raise crowds. If people genuinely wont go on a saturday or monday or late at night then how do we fix that, or how do we work around it? And if rain stops people going how do we fix that? Do we need better stadia?

Overall i'd rather hear 'yea the crowd was dissapointing but this is how we can fix it' rather than 'the crowd was bad but its because a change of trains was required' etc.

You can ask all you like - as a supposed RL fan, why not try thinking up solutions instead of pontificating about how the sky is falling.

I already responded to the fact crowd numbers are down - in 2005 they weren't setting the world on fire after four rounds either. This year the crowds have been consistent and while there's been a couple of ordinary ones, there's been no four-figure crowds and that is testament to the membership drive's success.

Your point about trains is a good one though - it needs to be easier to get to games in Sydney. Part of the AFL's success has come through centralising of stadia for Melbourne clubs in having all play out of either Etihad or MCG - both of which are impeccably serviced by public transport. No stadia in Sydney are - the two major ones (SFS and ANZ) require a change and another train or bus before even getting near the grounds.

I suppose it's easy to bag somewhere you don't understand though.