2013 Bundy Cup

[unknown1]

With the point system for RM cup anyone know what players are worth what points ? eg nsw cup players

 

[Captain Mulga]

I see this being a real problem for Mounties this year.
The amount of guys they have recruited to their club is going to pose issues when it comes to player points. I also heard from one of the Sydney Shield players that they only get paid if they play RM Cup or NSW Cup, so anyone who came over hoping to play RM Cup and gets stuck in SS for the year wont end up with a dime!
Considering the amount of coin a lot of these players could get at other clubs, it makes me wonder if they will stick around for the year......

That being said, Mounties also have a direct link to an NRL side in the Raiders and seem to be a very well run club and the players seem to be well looked after from what I could see.

Maybe it's not always about the coin.....

 

[Ram Man]

Maybe it's not always about the coin.....

Yeah thanks scoop!

Thats why I suggested that the direct link to an NRL club would be an attractive detail.

 

[Roland]

With the point system for RM cup anyone know what players are worth what points ? eg nsw cup players

Points range from 2 to 20. NYC are worth 4. A Bundy Cup player with a certain number of games is 8, A NSW Cup player 10 and an ex NRL up to 20.

These are base figures and players can get 5 points discount - 1 point for each year they have played with the club. Minimum 2 points per player.

 

[Henri Cartier-Bresson]

Does anyone have more detail on the days and times for opening round Massey Cup games. NSWRL site hasn't got them up yet however noticed Wests announced their own very detailed draw yesterday ... so the info must be out there ?

 

[Captain Mulga]

Yeah thanks scoop!

Thats why I suggested that the direct link to an NRL club would be an attractive detail.

No problem, I find that I have to point these things out as so many people's first and foremost thought is about "the coin" and "the game" becomes a secondary concern.

There are many fine players at Mounties, past and present who dont automatically relate to the coin, for them its about making themselves a better player and a better person.

 

[Sharkie Army Gorilla]

Kingsgrove are playing their first couple of home matches @ Win Jubilee

Also has anyone seen the new Ron Massey Cup logo (if there is one)

 

[Roland]

Does anyone have more detail on the days and times for opening round Massey Cup games. NSWRL site hasn't got them up yet however noticed Wests announced their own very detailed draw yesterday ... so the info must be out there ?

I think the home clubs determine timimg of the games so maybe not all clubs have finalised yet. The NSWRL version of Sydney Shield still has St Johns in the draw whereas in the Cabra website version the draw has changed and Burwood North Ryde replaces St Johns.

The Kingsgrove version has all their home games at WIN Jubilee. If true, they have moved from the outhouse to the penthouse.

 

[slickrabbit]

Top 5 will more than likely be,

Mounties
Cabra
Wenty
Windsor
Entrance (lost 5-6 to Wyong and haven't recovered)/Auburn (depends on quality back from Dogs)

in no particular order. Then the following will be pushing for possible top 5 if one or 2 of the above struggle in some way,

Wests
Guilford
Asquith (if they get and use a lot back from Bears, could be interesting)
BNRU

Rest are just making up the numbers,

Blacktown
Kingsrove

 

[Roland]

I would have the following groups:

Tier 1 - Wenty, Cabra, Mounties

Tier 2 - Auburn, Windsor, Entrance, Asquith

Tier 3 - Burwood, Guildford, Kingsgrove, Blacktown

Not sure if Wests should be in the bottom group or the bottom group or tier 2. See how they go in the first few comp games if they have those 7 first choice players.

Entrance's defence was poor in the trials - they conceded 7 tries to Windsor, 10 to Auburn (and it could have been quite a few more) and about 6 to Cabra.

The top group have plenty of options for positions.

Aaron Groom has moved from Asquith to Norths this week.

 

[Captain Mulga]

Top 5 will more than likely be,

Mounties
Cabra
Wenty
Windsor
Entrance (lost 5-6 to Wyong and haven't recovered)/Auburn (depends on quality back from Dogs)

in no particular order. Then the following will be pushing for possible top 5 if one or 2 of the above struggle in some way,

Wests
Guilford
Asquith (if they get and use a lot back from Bears, could be interesting)
BNRU

Rest are just making up the numbers,

Blacktown
Kingsrove

With 12 teams this year it will probably be top 8

 

[Roland]

With 12 teams this year it will probably be top 8

That would be a complete joke. They have always had real semis in Bundy. There have been 12 in other seasons and it was a top 5.

But of course, you will have the papers issued by the NSWRL so it must be 8 which means that the first 22 weeks will be a waste of time as a team that wins 6 games and losses 16 will enter the "finals".

60 point wins wont just occur in the normal rounds this year.

 

[Broncos93]

Out of curiosity, how the did the top 5 finals format work?

 

[Captain Mulga]

That would be a complete joke. They have always had real semis in Bundy. There have been 12 in other seasons and it was a top 5.

But of course, you will have the papers issued by the NSWRL so it must be 8 which means that the first 22 weeks will be a waste of time as a team that wins 6 games and losses 16 will enter the "finals".

60 point wins wont just occur in the normal rounds this year.

Remember, if it does end up being top 8 it will be under the new system of top 4 bottom 4 and in this comp if you are out of the top 4 I think you are screwed anyway so it will be a mighty battle each week for the points so you end up in the top 4.

I think the finals race is going to be a much more interesting battle and I wouldn't read anything into trial form as some clubs have not played a lot of their top players yet.

 

[Roland]

I think the finals race is going to be a much more interesting battle and I wouldn't read anything into trial form as some clubs have not played a lot of their top players yet.

Ok, you have some info the rest of us do not possess. Please post the details of the top players for each club that did not appear in the trials and then we will all be on the same page.

 

[Roland]

Out of curiosity, how the did the top 5 finals format work?

Ok, a bit of history, between 1908 and 1930 the NSWRL 1st grade competition were decided by the points ladder or the top 2 played a final. In 1930 the right of the Minor Premer to challenge was introduced so the top 4 played semis, the 2 winners played the final but if the Minor Premier lost on either of the first 2 weeks they would challenge in the Grand Final. It was quite common for the Minor Premier to win the GF after elimination in the prior weeks.

In 1953 the format was changed so there was a major semi (1v2) and minor semi (3v4) with winner of major going to GF and loser of major playing winner of minor in Preliminary final and then winner of PF going into GF. A very simple system that lasted 42 years except that in 1973 it changed to top 5 with Minor Premiers having bye in first week and Major (2v3) and minor (4v5) and the following 3 weeks were as per 4 team setup, so 1 team eliminated each week. This was the Bundy system still until this year.

The 5 team series came into existence 5 years after the comp went from 10 to 12 when Cronulla and Penrith entered in 1967. It was still a top 5 in 1994 even though there were 16 teams – Canberra and Illawarra came in 1982 and Brisbane and Newcastle in 1988.

The justifiable move to 8 teams came about when there were 20 teams in 1995 but when Super League started in 1997 there was a 12 team comp and the ARL put on a joke 7 team finals series to provide Channel 9 with enough content. I suppose you can justify 8 if you have at least 16 teams but it is all about multi million dollar broadcasting rights.

The minor grades have had 12 teams or less in many seasons meaning that anything more than a top 5 is a joke. Bundy maintained the proper finals system giving the top 3 a second chance but NSW Cup mimicked the TV Rights finals system even though there were virtually no gates and no viewer interest. So last year teams, 3 and 4 were eliminated in the first week and teams 7 and 8 played the GF.

A game can be decided by referee error, a team having one bad day, injuries, send offs or luck. When you play 18 to 26 rounds these factors are likely to be an exception rather than the norm. If you limit the finals to the teams that have performed well the “lottery” factor is limited to the few teams that are worthy. If everyone is in the finals then teams that have lost many, many games are given the benefit of the “lottery” factor.

The AFL system (top 4/bottom 4) which has finally been adopted by the NRL makes more sense than the system the NRL had for the last 15 years but it is actually easier for teams 5 to 8. In the first week teams 7 and 8 play 5 and 6 whereas under the old system 7 and 8 would play 1 and 2 and teams 5 and 6 would play 4 and 3. The one area where the system is superior is that teams 3 and 4 cannot be eliminated on the first week.

But broadcasting revenues aside, there is nothing that can adequately replace the top 5 which now has 80 years precedence from the original top 4.

Ironically, the NSWRL had quarter finals in reserve grade and 3rd grade between 1912 and 1915 as there were up to 21 teams in these grades but even though a few teams from the bottom 4 won they were eliminated and the 4 team semis occurred the following week because the NSWRL treated the Q/F’s as an additional round and simply added the points to the table and none of the lower winners were close enough.

That system is has some merit, so if they wanted an additional round called Q/F’s but it just added to points ladder and then 4 team semis 1v2 and 3v4 on the following week, that change would do no harm.

 

[Roland]

Ok, you have some info the rest of us do not possess. Please post the details of the top players for each club that did not appear in the trials and then we will all be on the same page.

I think I know a few

Cabra - Trent Trotter (injured) and Hala Katoa did not play in OAMPS

Windsor - Hutch Maiva played against Entrance but not against Wenty

Entrance - Dan Randall played against Windsor but not against Auburn, Troy Woodley played against Auburn but not against Windsor

Wenty - Francis Tuigmala played against Auburn but not against Windsor
Nathan Armit, Jason Wehbe and Charlie Herekotukuku play against Windsor but not against Auburn.

Mounties - Michael Bani played against Blacktown but not against Cabra

Asquith - Steve Meredith started against Kingsgrove but was sent off so did not play against Auburn

Auburn - Damien Mostyn started the 1 quarter of each of the preliminary games but not in the final.

Wests - Sam Aiga and Chase Mason did not play OAMPS. Tom Morrison played against Burwood but not against Guildford.

 

[Captain Mulga]

I think I know a few

Cabra - Trent Trotter (injured) and Hala Katoa did not play in OAMPS

Windsor - Hutch Maiva played against Entrance but not against Wenty

Entrance - Dan Randall played against Windsor but not against Auburn, Troy Woodley played against Auburn but not against Windsor

Wenty - Francis Tuigmala played against Auburn but not against Windsor
Nathan Armit, Jason Wehbe and Charlie Herekotukuku play against Windsor but not against Auburn.

Mounties - Michael Bani played against Blacktown but not against Cabra

Asquith - Steve Meredith started against Kingsgrove but was sent off so did not play against Auburn

Auburn - Damien Mostyn started the 1 quarter of each of the preliminary games but not in the final.

Wests - Sam Aiga and Chase Mason did not play OAMPS. Tom Morrison played against Burwood but not against Guildford.

Oh Roland my faith has been restored in you.
I was beginning to think a man of your inside knowledge could not possibly let an opportunity like that pass without serious consideration of your precious statement.
Praise The Lord

 

[unknown1]

Does anyone know round 1 line ups this week for RMC and SS

 

[slickrabbit]

Does anyone know round 1 line ups this week for RMC and SS

round 1 lineups are required from clubs by Tues afternoon and are then posted in an article in the nswrl rmc news section, but I wouldn't take the lists as permanent, as they often get adjusted with players dropping back from nsw cup/nyc etc...