2019 coach

[Kilkenny]

I don't think Ivan Cleary is worth all this drama. It's not as if it is Craig Bellamy!

Q. Would Gus Gould re-hire Ivan Cleary as head coach if Nathan Cleary was not at our club?

A. No.

Given the answer to this question is almost certainly a NO then it stands to reason we should not be considering re-hiring Ivan Cleary.

I think Ivan Cleary is a good coach but if the primary motive for bringing him back to the club is linked with his son Nathan, then such a decision is flawed and could have the potential to undo all of the good work that has been done at our club in recent years.

 

[mxlegend99]

We won’t be able to underpay Nathan massively, NRL won’t register a contract if they believe it’s below the market rate. Given Nathan played origin his market rate just went up.

A player can stay at a club for whatever they want. If we signed Nathan on $500k how could the NRL have any say in that?

If he tested the market and signed at a team for below market value then sure. But if he never tests the market, how could the NRL put a figure on him?

$500k is just an example figure. I think $700k would be closer to a figure we would agree on with Ivan as coach. Which is not peanuts. But its well below what clubs would offer him.

 

[mxlegend99]

I’d rehire the Griffinator personally.

Doubtful. That's clearly trolling.

 

[betcats]

Yes, who we fired because he was "tired". And now three years later we are acting like total dicks trying to lure back a coach we fired because he was "tired".

What a clusterf**k.

Don’t feel to bad for the tigers mate it’s just a game lol

Look at the tigers last two coaches being assed, they’d do the same thing if they weren’t broke.

 

[Frankus]

Did you receive a form of payment for the restrictions?

Nope.

 

[Frankus]

You’d think we were fighting over a premiership winning coach with a proven record.

We had a coach. It’s potenially 5-6 weeks before its mad Monday for us and instead we’ve found ourselves in the media for all the wrong reasons.

How is Ivan Cleary worth any of this? The media shit storm, the potential falling out of clubs and let’s not forget that we fired this guy and he’s got a contract with a club which showed good faith in hiring him eighteen months ago.

Meanwhile Bennett (who is clearly being overlooked for this job) uses this opportunity to sack Corey Parker from the Bronocos coaching staff without a peep...

Now that is the work of a master tactician.

 

[OldPanther]

Who here has expressed they would be happy to see him do it to Tigers? Outside of that dickhead troll we would hate to see Tigers fans suffer through that.

Kent was saying we initially approached Ivan about whether he would come back at all and if so when? We were thinking 2020/2021 and he said yes he would consider it and 2019 was his idea.

At the end of the day he would be thinking about what's best for Nathans career. They want to play together and our club has far better resources to provide him with a great career. It looks bad for Ivan obviously. Maybe selfish him wanting what's best for Nsthan and thinking he is better than a Bennett or a Fittler etc. You could essily argue the best career move is bring in a coach like that and Nathan stays here

So it was Ivan's idea for 2019? f**king lol at all the Panthers hate.

 

[OldPanther]

Here's a dilemma for everyone. If Cleary comes, he probably changes the squad in some ways. However, most of us would probably agree that the squad shouldn't be changed. JFH has found his home as an enforcer prop style 13. Cleary seems to have always preferred a Taylor style 13. What other changes might he make?

You're teying to use this as scare tactics against Ivan but every coach potentially changes the squad other than Ciraldo.

 

[roofromoz]

Craig Bellamy would be a massive coup.

We need a top 4 quality coach to get the most out of this squad.

He's also under contract at a NRL club. Let's start making some 'enquiries' about his availability for 2019.

 

[Bob]

I don't think Ivan Cleary is worth all this drama. It's not as if it is Craig Bellamy!

I don’t think he is Gussies first choice either, this is being driven at board level,
I honestly think Gus has someone else in mind

 

[mxlegend99]

So it was Ivan's idea for 2019? f**king lol at all the Panthers hate.

According to Kent. Seemed sure of it too. He thinks Ivan wants to make sure Nathan is in good hands immediately. Not risk 2 years under anyone else

 

[OldPanther]

According to Kent. Seemed sure of it too. He thinks Ivan wants to make sure Nathan is in good hands immediately. Not risk 2 years under anyone else

So all the other fans shitting on our club can f**k off.

 

[mxlegend99]

So all the other fans shitting on our club can f**k off.

Well we're willing to take him immediately. But it supposedly wasnt our idea

 

[herbert henry1908]

A player can stay at a club for whatever they want. If we signed Nathan on $500k how could the NRL have any say in that?

If he tested the market and signed at a team for below market value then sure. But if he never tests the market, how could the NRL put a figure on him?

$500k is just an example figure. I think $700k would be closer to a figure we would agree on with Ivan as coach. Which is not peanuts. But its well below what clubs would offer him.

The NRL assign a minimum value to a player in order to prevent dodgy goings on.

$700k might well be above the minimum of what they’d consider Cleary worth, I’m not sure.

This was the drama 5-6 years ago when parramatta tried to sign Israel Folau, the NRL wouldn’t register the contract because they felt it was too low.





https://au.sports.yahoo.com/parramatta-to-break-salary-cap-to-get-israel-folau-15478697.html

 

[chrisD]

Pretty simple situation, Ivan loves us and the Tigers will have to suck it up and f**k off.

 

[Frankus]

I don’t think he is Gussies first choice either, this is being driven at board level,
I honestly think Gus has someone else in mind

I think you might be right, I've watched the interview a number of times. When asked about preferred choice and applicants, his body language when answering indicated he was lying.

Also it was interesting when asked - "Gus are you confident you will get him - your preferred coach?"
Gus answered - "I don't know. I haven't been in those conversations" And he was almost definitely telling the truth when answering that.

So who wouldn't he feel comfortable approaching to try and get to the club?

 

[mxlegend99]

The NRL assign a minimum value to a player in order to prevent dodgy goings on.

$700k might well be above the minimum of what they’d consider Cleary worth, I’m not sure.

This was the drama 5-6 years ago when parramatta tried to sign Israel Folau, the NRL wouldn’t register the contract because they felt it was too low.



View attachment 22160

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/parramatta-to-break-salary-cap-to-get-israel-folau-15478697.html

Thats not the same situation at all. He had gone to another code for huge money. Pretty sure its the only time they have ever tried doing it too. Good thing as it turns out Eels were cheating the cap.

If a player wants to remain at a club they can't say no you're worth $1million if they are happy to stay for $500k.

Broncos have gotten away (in 2017) with signing guys on minimum wage who were offered more than double elsewhere. Korbin Sims quit a $400k contract at Knights for minimum at Broncos.

Only time youre caught out is when minimum wage players play however many games and their value for the following year becomes minimum wage plus all the match payments from previous year. But thats due to money they earned still.

They can't tell us or Nathan he is worth a minimum amount. Not unless we seriously do something clearly dodgy and get him on the cap at minimum wage like Broncos do.

 

[mxlegend99]

Pretty simple situation, Ivan loves us and the Tigers will have to suck it up and f**k off.

Yep.

Paul Kent confirmed on NRL 360 that Ivan Cleary wants to reunite with his son at the Panthers.

“Ivan wants to go back to Penrith next year,” Kent said.

“The Panthers asked Ivan when he would like to come back, if it would be 2021, the first season out of the Tigers or would it be later than that.

“Ivan said he would be willing to go back next year, sooner rather than later.”

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...s/news-story/beaa5d8aff8ea8faf278fdc0fbe15c0d

 

[Pomoz]

Sorry for the intrusion as a Tigers fan but I have to interject here and I've heard this argument many times recently and its totally wrong.

A contract is held between two parties and to be legal has to benefit both parties (its called consideration).

In the situation where a player or coach is sacked by the club, they still need to receive consideration, ie, they get paid. So if the Tigers were paying Ivan say $500K pa with two years to go and said "you are crap get out", that would be unpleasant potentially for Ivan (or player) but they still get that money. In this example he would still get the $1M. Hasler is a great example of that, or Woods or half of the Bulldogs squad recently.

In this case, one party is breaking the contract and the other party receives no consideration for it. If Ivan walks, the Tigers dont pay him, but we dont have the coach or the rest of what we were paying him for either.

Its a totally different thing.

Welcome to our forum. It is never as simple as that because if you want someone to leave there is normally a reason. If Ivan is crap he might be sacked for breaching the performance conditions in his contract. For the Panthers, Gus could put Hook on performance management, issue him warning letters and so on. Neither party wants that messy business, so it becomes a negotiation. This happens time and time again in business. It is also true that often people get more than their contract says even when its for cause, because both parties don't want a legal battle.

Your example of Woods is not on point because he didn't have a performance issue, they just needed to reduce their salary bill. Your example of Hasler is not relevant either. They firstly denied he had a contract at all, rather than saying you are fired because of performance. They didn't have any documentation to support firing him, so once the court holds there was an implied contract, they were screwed.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

So Cleary is more of a dick than we are? Good to know.

Just wish we were going for someone better. My excitement over Griffin being booted lasted about 1 hour.