2019 coach

[Copperhead]

So Cleary is more of a dick than we are? Good to know.

Just wish we were going for someone better. My excitement over Griffin being booted lasted about 1 hour.

Yep, mine too.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Thats not the same situation at all. He had gone to another code for huge money. Pretty sure its the only time they have ever tried doing it too. Good thing as it turns out Eels were cheating the cap.

If a player wants to remain at a club they can't say no you're worth $1million if they are happy to stay for $500k.

Broncos have gotten away (in 2017) with signing guys on minimum wage who were offered more than double elsewhere. Korbin Sims quit a $400k contract at Knights for minimum at Broncos.

Only time youre caught out is when minimum wage players play however many games and their value for the following year becomes minimum wage plus all the match payments from previous year. But thats due to money they earned still.

They can't tell us or Nathan he is worth a minimum amount. Not unless we seriously do something clearly dodgy and get him on the cap at minimum wage like Broncos do.

I’m not saying you wouldn’t be able to underpay him somewhat, but not massively. The NRL are also going to look at it closely because of his dads comtract. One idea floating around is you’d pay Nathan 500k & then pay Ivan 1.5m, what Ivan does with his money is his business. NRL won’t see it like that though.

I don’t see the NRL registering an origin halfback for 500k, consider the market for such a player is now 1-1.2m

 

[herbert henry1908]

There might be some hope that Cleary isn’t our guy.

I’m thinking the backlash of the last 24 hours might make him reconsider, then again the damage to his reputation may already be done.

 

[Tiger5150]

Welcome to our forum. It is never as simple as that because if you want someone to leave there is normally a reason. If Ivan is crap he might be sacked for breaching the performance conditions in his contract. For the Panthers, Gus could put Hook on performance management, issue him warning letters and so on. Neither party wants that messy business, so it becomes a negotiation. This happens time and time again in business. It is also true that often people get more than their contract says even when its for cause, because both parties don't want a legal battle.

Your example of Woods is not on point because he didn't have a performance issue, they just needed to reduce their salary bill. Your example of Hasler is not relevant either. They firstly denied he had a contract at all, rather than saying you are fired because of performance. They didn't have any documentation to support firing him, so once the court holds there was an implied contract, they were screwed.

I dont necessarily disagree (that much) with anything you have said but it is besides the point? In all of the instance you list here, there is still consideration for both parties, one wants to break the contract and the other receives his (potentially negotiated) payment. In the case of say Cleary walking out the door (or SBW out the Bulldogs door), what consideration do the Tigers (or Bulldogs in SBW case) get? There isnt any.

Keep in mind that I haven't brought this up as an opinion of the rights and wrongs in this particular Cleary case, I merely brought it up because I have seen many people say "well its just the same as when a club sacks a coach or player". Its not. its totally different.

And by the way, on a totally different angle, inducement to break a legal binding contract is illegal under tort law.

 

[Rowdy Panther]

Ivan Cleary is the right man for the job. There isn't a coach better suited to this squad of players.

 

[mxlegend99]

So Cleary is more of a dick than we are? Good to know.

Just wish we were going for someone better. My excitement over Griffin being booted lasted about 1 hour.

Well he is putting his kid and family before his job. Its shit for Tigers. But its also a situation you can understand.

I hope we agree to employ him after his current contract and everyone wins

 

[Panther_Daz]

One idea floating around is you’d pay Nathan 500k & then pay Ivan 1.5m, what Ivan does with his money is his business. NRL won’t see it like that though.

The Salary Cap on Football Operations comes in in 2020. If we are to overpay Ivan Cleary it will have to be in 2019.

 

[chrisD]

Easy to see from Cleary's point of view. He's watched Griffin fumble around treading water in their premiership window. Seen premiership winning pieces get pushed out. Had it from his son that no-one likes the crusty old merkin, no-one can work with him and no-one wants to play for him.

All the while he's fuming inside, watching everything he built go to f**king waste, thinking this should be my team and we would be winning this thing.

Then Penrith come knocking talking 2022 or whenever the f**k, basically when the opportunity may have passed, when this crop of players, his crop, might have come and gone. And he's like f**k that, the time is now, that's my team and I want it back.

 

[herbert henry1908]

The Salary Cap on Football Operations comes in in 2020. If we are to overpay Ivan Cleary it will have to be in 2019.

It’s only a soft cap from what I understand. Similar to the American model where if you go over it you pay a luxury tax.

 

[betcats]

It’s only a soft cap from what I understand. Similar to the American model where if you go over it you pay a luxury tax.

Yeah its 35 odd percent tax on the amount you go over.

 

[tripster]

You're teying to use this as scare tactics against Ivan but every coach potentially changes the squad other than Ciraldo.

Not trying to scare anyone. Asking an honest question

 

[OldPanther]

Not trying to scare anyone. Asking an honest question

You said this as a statement of fact:

"Here's a dilemma for everyone. If Cleary comes, he probably changes the squad in some ways. However, most of us wouldprobably agree that the squad shouldn't be changed.JFH has found his home as an enforcer prop style 13. Cleary seems to have alwayspreferred a Taylorstyle13."

You then asked what other changes Ivan would make.

He might not change the squad and he might not be able to as a condition of coming on as coach.

 

[tripster]

You said this as a statement of fact:

"Here's a dilemma for everyone. If Cleary comes, he probably changes the squad in some ways. However, most of us wouldprobably agree that the squad shouldn't be changed.JFH has found his home as an enforcer prop style 13. Cleary seems to have alwayspreferred a Taylorstyle13."

You then asked what other changes Ivan would make.

He might not change the squad and he might not be able to as a condition of coming on as coach.

Yes so I am wondering what changes do we think he is likely to make? What do you think?

One answer obviously is that he doesn’t change anything.

The other is that he does. If that option, what are those changes? Like I said, he might change lock, because he seems to prefer a different style of lock.

There is no way that it will be a condition of his contract that he can’t change the squad.

 

[franklin2323]

Yes so I am wondering what changes do we think he is likely to make? What do you think?

One answer obviously is that he doesn’t change anything.

The other is that he does. If that option, what are those changes? Like I said, he might change lock, because he seems to prefer a different style of lock.

There is no way that it will be a condition of his contract that he can’t change the squad.

I'd say to the coach coming in. Tell me what you need and it is yours... Though Gus is too controlling for that. So I guess he will get what Gus thinks he needs

 

[franklin2323]

Not trying to scare anyone. Asking an honest question

I think he would want to bring some support staff with him. I can't see many major contract changes but who knows

 

[OldPanther]

Yes so I am wondering what changes do we think he is likely to make? What do you think?

One answer obviously is that he doesn’t change anything.

The other is that he does. If that option, what are those changes? Like I said, he might change lock, because he seems to prefer a different style of lock.

There is no way that it will be a condition of his contract that he can’t change the squad.

I'd say to the coach coming in. Tell me what you need and it is yours... Though Gus is too controlling for that. So I guess he will get what Gus thinks he needs

Whoever comes in will have to accept the squad is bought and sold by rhe GM. This attitude has been growing in the game and Des was the final nail. The coach will have to use the top 30 they get ro the best of their ability.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Yes so I am wondering what changes do we think he is likely to make? What do you think?

One answer obviously is that he doesn’t change anything.

The other is that he does. If that option, what are those changes? Like I said, he might change lock, because he seems to prefer a different style of lock.

There is no way that it will be a condition of his contract that he can’t change the squad.

I’d think it possible he may not like Edwards at fullback.

He didn’t want Moylan there, and I’m wondering if that was because of his size? Edwards is similarly on the small side.

 

[betcats]

I’d think it possible he may not like Edwards at fullback.

He didn’t want Moylan there, and I’m wondering if that was because of his size? Edwards is similarly on the small side.

He played Moylan there for years. He just saw him with a 5/8th's skill set.

Edwards is not the same player as Moylan anyway. Edwards is a great runner and kick returner.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Whoever comes in will have to accept the squad is bought and sold by rhe GM. This attitude has been growing in the game and Des was the final nail. The coach will have to use the top 30 they get ro the best of their ability.

Cleary has been in charge of recruitment at the Tigers though.

I don’t think it’s a huge concern anyway, most of the squad was here when Cleary was.

The concern about Cleary is a possible reluctance to use juniors.

 

[herbert henry1908]

He played Moylan there for years. He just saw him with a 5/8th's skill set.

Edwards is not the same player as Moylan anyway. Edwards is a great runner and kick returner.

After going through some other dodgy options. Moylan was quite old for his talent when he debuted, had big wraps on him for a long time in reserves.

Cleary was definitely more reluctant to give youngsters a go.