2019 Crowd Watch

[taipan]

According to the club break even is 16,500!

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/ca...g-games-to-tonga-or-fiji-20190323-p516xd.html

According to the club CEO Munro recently on a Sharks' podcast interview with him, it's 12,000.And earlier advices were 13,000..
I think Munro has some idea.

 

[taipan]

So capacity is 16k and break even is 16,500

Good business model this

You need to get an update.How many clubs in Sydney average 16,500 or Perth for that matter? The break even according to the CEO in the last couple of weeks on Podcast is 12,000.

 

[League Unlimited News]

https://leagueunlimited.com/news/33946-mondays-expert-round-22-wrap/

 

[Cumberland Throw]

You need to get an update.How many clubs in Sydney average 16,500 or Perth for that matter? The break even according to the CEO in the last couple of weeks on Podcast is 12,000.

Eels do

 

[Timmah]

You need to get an update.How many clubs in Sydney average 16,500 or Perth for that matter?

Roosters & Eels this year.

Bulldogs and Souths regularly crack that mark too.

 

[taipan]

Eels do

That's one, which we know about.

 

[Cumberland Throw]

According to the club CEO Munro recently on a Sharks' podcast interview with him, it's 12,000.And earlier advices were 13,000..
I think Munro has some idea.

What's everyone reckon happens at most sharks games ?

Say 14k crowd
- 6k season Tix holders turn up
- 7k casual ticket purchasers
- 1k corporates

Does the genius CEO transfer a portion of the season Tix holders revenue attributed to each single game ? Even at $20 a game that's $120k attribution

7k casuals paying average of $20 a tickets
$140k

$1k corporates at say $50 a ticket
$50k

That's over $300k .. and they pay zero rent..

And then they get food / beer and merch out of the day ..

Surely their security and bar staff costs aren't $300k per game day

 

[taipan]

Roosters & Eels this year.

Bulldogs and Souths regularly crack that mark too.

I'm relating it to this year's averages relating it to the Shark's crowd on Sunday.,maybe I should have been clearer in my comments.The B/E for the Sharks is 12,000 according to the new CEO.
I'm aware of the Eels this year and the Roosters, the latter boosted by Anzac Day.
That is correct about Souths and Bulldogs ,and I'm hoping that gets back to those levels again.

ANZ is a stadium that fans are not embracing now thus affecting crowds, the rectangular one will do wonders for crowds. So will an upgraded Shark Park.

 

[taipan]

What's everyone reckon happens at most sharks games ?

Say 14k crowd
- 6k season Tix holders turn up
- 7k casual ticket purchasers
- 1k corporates

Does the genius CEO transfer a portion of the season Tix holders revenue attributed to each single game ? Even at $20 a game that's $120k attribution

7k casuals paying average of $20 a tickets
$140k

$1k corporates at say $50 a ticket
$50k

That's over $300k .. and they pay zero rent..

And then they get food / beer and merch out of the day ..

Surely their security and bar staff costs aren't $300k per game day

Perhaps you as the resident genius on crowds and bagging the NRL on many occasions ,can have a chat with the Shark's CEO.
Or perhaps with so much time on your hands ,you can spend 1/2 hour listening to the podcast.,now the Swans are out of the semis.Then advise him where he is wrong LOL,and apply for his position.
Season tickets for me were nigh on $40 per game.
Looking at your pricing it shows you are clueless.For a start if a season ticket holder doesn't turn up, he's still paid for the ticket FHS.I missed 4 games last year, and only one I was able to onsell.
You do understand of course there is a Leagues club next door, that flogs alcohol.

 

[Perth Red]

So capacity is 16k and break even is 16,500

Good business model this

Where have you made up that 4500 paying attendees a game or was your chairman wrong? Mind you your other chairman said you were going to be the richest in the comp didn’t he? Seems your admin regularly just make things up lol.

 

[bazza]

What's everyone reckon happens at most sharks games ?

Say 14k crowd
- 6k season Tix holders turn up
- 7k casual ticket purchasers
- 1k corporates

Does the genius CEO transfer a portion of the season Tix holders revenue attributed to each single game ? Even at $20 a game that's $120k attribution

7k casuals paying average of $20 a tickets
$140k

$1k corporates at say $50 a ticket
$50k

That's over $300k .. and they pay zero rent..

And then they get food / beer and merch out of the day ..

Surely their security and bar staff costs aren't $300k per game day

Maybe security and bar staff are contracted through a company that the genius CEO or other board member has some affiliation to

 

[taipan]

Where have you made up that 4500 paying attendees a game or was your chairman wrong? Mind you your other chairman said you were going to be the richest in the comp didn’t he? Seems your admin regularly just make things up lol.

Think you're a bit confused you sort of responded to Cumberland Throw,intending it for me LOL.

For a start the ET stand was sold out for the 2019 season.I missed out there.
The game against the Rabbits just about all seating sold out .SFA in the Southern stand, ditto in the stand adjoining the club, and very few spare seats on the concourse.Most of the Peter Burns stand is sold out for the season and about 1/2 the southern stand ditto.

That is is utter BS ,which chairman stated the club was going to be the richest in the comp?In fact it was the former Broncos CEO (Cullen)doing the Shark's books, who made the comment about the club having the potential to be in the top 4 or 5.It seems to me you are making things up on the go and generalising ,as you have a habit of doing.No one can compete with the Broncos,Roosters,Eels or Dogs financially.

And that was based on the prior arrangement with the club getting a share of unit developments from now on and the retail rental share, that is not happening ,as money is being paid up front.

The debts are paid, the Leagues club has the money to be rebuilt and there is up to $18m to be avaIlable for investment.I guess Perth is in a similar situation, with their own ground, and Leagues club development.

The profit the leagues club would make over two years ,whilst the team is away, is being covered by the developers ,so they can get moving on construction, without having to dodge fans at games with their machinery, and the dangers therein.
Pirates usually have patches on one eye ,it looks like you've got them covering both.

 

[taipan]

Maybe security and bar staff are contracted through a company that the genius CEO or other board member has some affiliation to

Contracted security.Bar staff ,club employed.
No genius needed.
Other food stands pay rent to the club for access.All seem to do a roaring trade when the crowds are decent.You can do that when you own the ground.

 

[Cumberland Throw]

Perhaps you as the resident genius on crowds and bagging the NRL on many occasions ,can have a chat with the Shark's CEO.
Or perhaps with so much time on your hands ,you can spend 1/2 hour listening to the podcast.,now the Swans are out of the semis.Then advise him where he is wrong LOL,and apply for his position.
Season tickets for me were nigh on $40 per game.
Looking at your pricing it shows you are clueless.For a start if a season ticket holder doesn't turn up, he's still paid for the ticket FHS.I missed 4 games last year, and only one I was able to onsell.
You do understand of course there is a Leagues club next door, that flogs alcohol.

Poor simple man..

It doesn't matter if you show or not..

Putting a crowd number on break even by the CEO is a stupid comment anyway and a flawed simplistic approach to financial management .

What purpose does it serve to break down a profit and loss statement to one static game ?

Break even per game is just a simple metric to help you get a better rental deal from a stadium..

And Cronulla own the stadium.. so why he brings it up is beyond me..

 

[carcharias]

Poor simple man..

It doesn't matter if you show or not..

Putting a crowd number on break even by the CEO is a stupid comment anyway and a flawed simplistic approach to financial management .

What purpose does it serve to break down a profit and loss statement to one static game ?

Break even per game is just a simple metric to help you get a better rental deal from a stadium..

And Cronulla own the stadium.. so why he brings it up is beyond me..

He was asked the question
He “didn’t bring it up”.

 

[Cumberland Throw]

Let's just stop talking break even crowds..

It's a bullshit number anyway..

A under 12s netball club should do break even crowds.. not a multi million dollar nrl team..

 

[taipan]

Poor simple man..

It doesn't matter if you show or not..

Putting a crowd number on break even by the CEO is a stupid comment anyway and a flawed simplistic approach to financial management .

What purpose does it serve to break down a profit and loss statement to one static game ?

Break even per game is just a simple metric to help you get a better rental deal from a stadium..

And Cronulla own the stadium.. so why he brings it up is beyond me..

Reverting to name calling immediately indicates, you've got nothing to offer factually.

Line one dumb as, already paid for the season.If no season ticket holders turned up, that;'s still money in the Bank.

Really LOL.if the club has X thousand full season ticket holders which is set in stone, plus X numbers of sponsors boxes sold set in stone ,plus they conservatively work on general admission numbers historically, plus conservative figures for concourse seating, plus signage around the ground which goes to the club and not to a another stadium owner, plus rent on food stalls in the ground which are there regardless of crowd numbers, plus alcohol sales .Any one with basic accounting can get an idea of revenue and work with conservative numbers .

Why do clubs such as Manly or even the Tigers put figures on numbers at times .EG Playing at Leichhardt cost high rental, small crowds incur a loss.Likewise the Dragons complain about the high rental at Jubilee.And guess what, the Eels had to arm wrestle the WSS management to get rental down, else they' d lose money.But you don't attend Eels games I understand.

Whose breaking it down to one game sheesh?The figure is the average needed for the year at home.The CEO stated the crap crowd of 6,000 on a Thursday night against the Cows cost the club plenty.The interviewer noted the crowd against the Rabbits there ,to which he responded that was pleasing.It wasn't 16k but 13,000 plus.

You still don't get it,.
We were debating crowds re the Sharks not the Roosters, not the Eels ,or the Broncos.The figure of 16lk was brought up here , and the CEO stated the figure for break even was 12,000.

He(CEO) brings it up, because he was asked by the guy interviewing during the normal course of the interview, the impact of owning the stadium and the affect when the rebuilding goes on around.
You're right. it is beyond you.

 

[yakstorm]

Break even is such a subjective term anyway, there are many different ways you can calculate a single match revenue and make it seem like you've broken even, made a profit or made a loss, simply by deciding to count certain costs and certain revenues in different ways.

Clubs often use the 'story' around break even / losses / etc to try and justify a story they are trying to sell. Wests Tigers did this a lot when trying to push for more games at ANZ, they don't include Membership revenue in their 'Game Day Income & Expenses', which is completely fine, however they did count the per game $100K bonus ANZ was giving them, plus happened to evenly share the other costs equally across all their home matches, despite different games having significantly different costs for game day.

Anyway, regardless, the bigger issue for the game is just how poor crowds have been this year and where they are going to finish... After a nice run between 2005 - 2014 where crowds where either challenging 16K or above, we are on track for 03/04 style crowds...

ANZ has never been less popular, Dragons, despite playing more games at their 'spiritual homes' will finish with a crowd average under 10K for the first time since the merger, whilst Penrith & Cronulla, despite both being in Finals contention, having Titans' like crowds (at least in fairness to the GC, they are a club in absolute crisis, with no identity and are coming dead last).

Surely the NRL has to take stock and look to change some things. Thursday night is not working, and whilst it possibly can't be 'removed', the kick off time needs to be addressed.

ANZ simply should be abandoned ASAP... whilst it still will be available until mid-next year, it makes more sense for the Rabbitohs & Bulldogs to play anywhere else than continuing to let their crowds dwindle at the lifeless venue.

 

[taipan]

Agree your points Yakstrom.
Would add apart from ANZ which is like visiting a deserted village at times. scheduling, and the wrestling issue in the game, the SCG, inconsistent judiciary rulings, poor performing clubs with big followings viz a viz Dragons/Bulldogs, transport issues and people generally tightening their belts due to economic necessity and uncertainty have to be taken into consideration.
It's a worry, crowds down and TV ratings down.The effect of streaming and NRL apps has an effect.
Thursday night crowds for outlying teams playing interstate teams, is a recipe for crowd disasters the 6,000 at Sharks Park will attest.
AFL have an increase in crowds, but that is due to overall code purpose all seater stadiums ,all with decent transport access ,and better scheduling.
Anyone who thinks removing Sydney clubs ,is going to assist with crowds has rocks in their heads.Crowds drop when teams perform poorly, they will vanish with a relocated Sydney club.

The NRL needs to tell clubs to get rid of tackling coaches, be stricter of the slow PTB, toughen up penalties, and try to get rid of Thursday night scheduling or part thereof and replace with Sunday afternoons.And expand by 2 new teams.
We can't do anything about stadiums till SFS and ANZ are either rebuilt or reconfigured.

 

[Stallion]

Agree your points Yakstrom.
Would add apart from ANZ which is like visiting a deserted village at times. scheduling, and the wrestling issue in the game, the SCG, inconsistent judiciary rulings, poor performing clubs with big followings viz a viz Dragons/Bulldogs, transport issues and people generally tightening their belts due to economic necessity and uncertainty have to be taken into consideration.
It's a worry, crowds down and TV ratings down.The effect of streaming and NRL apps has an effect.
Thursday night crowds for outlying teams playing interstate teams, is a recipe for crowd disasters the 6,000 at Sharks Park will attest.
AFL have an increase in crowds, but that is due to overall code purpose all seater stadiums ,all with decent transport access ,and better scheduling.
Anyone who thinks removing Sydney clubs ,is going to assist with crowds has rocks in their heads.Crowds drop when teams perform poorly, they will vanish with a relocated Sydney club.

The NRL needs to tell clubs to get rid of tackling coaches, be stricter of the slow PTB, toughen up penalties, and try to get rid of Thursday night scheduling or part thereof and replace with Sunday afternoons.And expand by 2 new teams.
We can't do anything about stadiums till SFS and ANZ are either rebuilt or reconfigured.

One crucial point detracting from the fun/enjoyment factor in watching the game: Video replays for rulings. It's one of the recent changes that has and still is pushing away plenty of fans at the ground and viewing on tv. It's a big factor in lessening the attractiveness of games to the general public
People like a game to flow without the intrusion of the video refereeing. We can cop bad reffing but not having it compounded by a time consuming video ref deliberation. That's the one really hurting the code in the ratings and as a live spectacle!