2019 Discussion

[BxTom]

Have you ever heard him break down a game? Or analyse a player?

Heard a lot of people better than mje break down games and analyse players. Still doesn't make Cronk an infallible genius. Not arguing that Burton looks good, but predicting he's a great after one game where he missed 6 tackles? Let's stand back and make way for reality for a while before we judge.

 

[OldPanther]

Heard a lot of people better than mje break down games and analyse players. Still doesn't make Cronk an infallible genius. Not arguing that Burton looks good, but predicting he's a great after one game where he missed 6 tackles? Let's stand back and make way for reality for a while before we judge.

I'm not saying he's infallible but on a forum where we all talk about players in this way(Cleary to 9 discussion is a big one) I'd take his opinion first. Especially when talking about halves.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Nah, I agree with OP there. Moylan has the full bag when it comes to skillset.

It always looks like young players with potential get overhyped because very few people ever actually reach their potential. Those that do are usually the guys who put in far far more than their teammates. It's tricky because as fans it's very difficult for us to separate talent and how that talent is brought forth (hard work/training). It's easy to attribute a lack of one with an abundance of the other.

It's hard to say with Moylan. Maybe he was never going to be an elite player, but I've always attributed guys who play well in bursts with below average self-discipline. The guys who "trained till they got it right" rather than "trained till they were unable to get it wrong". That always struck me as Moylans problem, but who knows.

There’s a difference between being an elite player and being the next Darren Lockyer.

Lockyer wasn’t just elite, you’re talking a top 20 player of all time.

I’m kinda stunned we’re having this conversation.

 

[betcats]

Heard a lot of people better than mje break down games and analyse players. Still doesn't make Cronk an infallible genius. Not arguing that Burton looks good, but predicting he's a great after one game where he missed 6 tackles? Let's stand back and make way for reality for a while before we judge.

Jimmy regularly misses 6 tackles, is he not great? Cronk sees an old head on young talented shoulders, it’s rare.

 

[herbert henry1908]

You can't tell Moylan's vision and passing on someone with an extreme work ethic wouldn't be at that level. That's often the defining characteristic of these people. How hard they work. That's not hype that's facts.

Take Egan, I'm a big fan but I'm not about to say he's Cameron Smith. People don't look at my comments logically.

Yes, I can tell you that. Lockyer is a top 20 player of all time. He excelled in two positions.

Lockyer also had blinding pace when he was young, Moylan is slow for a fullback.

 

[OldPanther]

There’s a difference between being an elite player and being the next Darren Lockyer.

Lockyer wasn’t just elite, you’re talking a top 20 player of all time.

I’m kinda stunned we’re having this conversation.

The same reason is always used to explain why he was that, same as Joey. It was how hard they worked. Moylan has the best natural passing game you'll ever see. Give him the work ethic of a Johns or even Cronk and you've got one of the best to ever play the game.

He doesn't and we have an inconsistent guy who can sometimes single handedly take a team to finals playing 2 positions and other times miss a lot of games and look average.

 

[OldPanther]

Yes, I can tell you that. Lockyer is a top 20 player of all time. He excelled in two positions.

Lockyer also had blinding pace when he was young, Moylan is slow for a fullback.

Didn't see this due to the page refreshing. Slater had no passing game, worked at it and became known as the best in his position of all time. The willingness to work on your weaknesses makes a huge difference. Moylan at the Storm would be talked about as a GOAT. 90% of other footballers don't have his natural ability.

 

[age.s]

There’s a difference between being an elite player and being the next Darren Lockyer.

Lockyer wasn’t just elite, you’re talking a top 20 player of all time.

I’m kinda stunned we’re having this conversation.

That's because you're comparing a guy who is not the complete package with a guy who was. No one is saying Moylan is or was ever going to be an immortal. In my view he doesn't have the drive. Not many do.

Hindsight is always 20/20 as well.

 

[herbert henry1908]

The same reason is always used to explain why he was that, same as Joey. It was how hard they worked. Moylan has the best natural passing game you'll ever see. Give him the work ethic of a Johns or even Cronk and you've got one of the best to ever play the game.

He doesn't and we have an inconsistent guy who can sometimes single handedly take a team to finals playing 2 positions and other times miss a lot of games and look average.

Joey won the dally M halfback of the year in his first full year in FG. That wasn’t how hard he worked, that was X factor. He didn’t hit first grade with an amazing work ethic, he hit it with extremely rare talent.

Moylan has good passing.

Lockyer has good passing, good running, good kicking.

totally different class of talent.

 

[herbert henry1908]

That's because you're comparing a guy who is not the complete package with a guy who was. No one is saying Moylan is or was ever going to be an immortal. In my view he doesn't have the drive. Not many do.

Hindsight is always 20/20 as well.

I’m bringing it up because Peter Sterling made the comparison.

I laughed at the comparisons at the time, not just now. It was classic Penrith hype train.

Moylan didn’t have the talent or drive.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Didn't see this due to the page refreshing. Slater had no passing game, worked at it and became known as the best in his position of all time. The willingness to work on your weaknesses makes a huge difference. Moylan at the Storm would be talked about as a GOAT. 90% of other footballers don't have his natural ability.

I’m not saying work ethic can’t make you a better player, I’m saying it wouldn’t have made Moylan into Lockyer.

 

[ACTPanthers]

THE SKY IS BLUE!!

(Waits for Herbert to argue it's not....)

 

[herbert henry1908]

THE SKY IS BLUE!!

(Waits for Herbert to argue it's not....)

Hahaha, technically it’s not blue



Seriously, though. I think I’m on pretty solid ground with my argument in regards to Lockyer and the general Penrith hype train surrounding juniors.

Maybe Burton will be a superstar, I hope to hell that he is, but I think we put undue pressure on these kids with comparisons and hype. It was one game after all.

 

[OldPanther]

Hahaha, technically it’s not blue



Seriously, though. I think I’m on pretty solid ground with my argument in regards to Lockyer and the general Penrith hype train surrounding juniors.

Maybe Burton will be a superstar, I hope to hell that he is, but I think we put undue pressure on these kids with comparisons and hype. It was one game after all.

No one is saying Burton will be an immortal. The original point is that he will be our long term 6 over Luai. Unless he gets bigger and goes to lock like Jake Turbo from Manly. I hope it didn't sound like I was saying he'd be the next Ponga or something.

 

[ACTPanthers]

Hahaha, technically it’s not blue



Seriously, though. I think I’m on pretty solid ground with my argument in regards to Lockyer and the general Penrith hype train surrounding juniors.

Maybe Burton will be a superstar, I hope to hell that he is, but I think we put undue pressure on these kids with comparisons and hype. It was one game after all.

Ha ha touche my friend

Yeah I understand what you're saying mate, I really do, and I agree to a certain extent - Whilst I am hesitant to label our juniors as "the next best thing" I still have those Panthers goggles on that makes me think every junior is a godsend... It's a hard fence to sit on

 

[herbert henry1908]

No one is saying Burton will be an immortal. The original point is that he will be our long term 6 over Luai. Unless he gets bigger and goes to lock like Jake Turbo from Manly. I hope it didn't sound like I was saying he'd be the next Ponga or something.

That’s why I asked what Cronks comments settled, you didn’t say it was just Burton over Luai.

For me that might be a false choice anyway, I see Luai as a 7.

 

[Fangs]

Moylan/Lockyer, some similarties early on. Mainly the hands.

Their careers are following very different paths. One is a legend, the other is literally running out of time to make an impression on the game.

28 years old, should be in his prime. If he doesn't get himself fit for the next 2-3 years then he will be quickly forgotten.

Many of us are rightly questioning whether Nathan Cleary has improved since his debut. (I think he has). But you could certainly make the same argument about Matt Moylan. He has gone backwards.

 

[OldPanther]

That’s why I asked what Cronks comments settled, you didn’t say it was just Burton over Luai.

For me that might be a false choice anyway, I see Luai as a 7.

Apologies. Luai looks too frantic o be a 7 for me. He's all eye's up and no control. Also irrelevant whether you see Luai as a 7 because the club won't move Cleary. The choice is realistically between Luai and Burton unless one goes elsewhere(position not club). Halfback is taken whether fans agree or not.

 

[BxTom]

Hahaha, technically it’s not blue



Seriously, though. I think I’m on pretty solid ground with my argument in regards to Lockyer and the general Penrith hype train surrounding juniors.

Maybe Burton will be a superstar, I hope to hell that he is, but I think we put undue pressure on these kids with comparisons and hype. It was one game after all.

How many bands have been labelled the next Beatles? A little hard to live up to...

 

[herbert henry1908]

Apologies. Luai looks too frantic o be a 7 for me. He's all eye's up and no control.

The best game he played for us was at 7, controlled the game really well. But it was only a single game.

How he plays at 5/8 may not be the same as he’d play at 7.