2019 Discussion

[Flashstep]

No one is smart enough to predict the future of a footballer after one game, there’s too many variables.

This expectation stuff hurts our juniors, it’s happened time and time before. One example I was thinking of was Jarrod Sammut, heaps of hype after a couple of games, two years later in super league. Not that I’m comparing Burton to Sammut mind you.

Right on time the hype train always pulls in to Penrith station...

Agreed, you’d think Penrith fans of all fans would learn to reel in the hype expectations when it comes to potential future stars, how many players over the years have had 1 good game, hell even a good season just for them to have their career stall or just evaporate completely.

Our best example is Nathan Cleary right now, he Came into first grade and hit the ground running for about 10 rounds, but has since stalled as a player, now our fans are left wondering if he can get to the next level as a halfback or is even a halfback at all.

 

[OldPanther]

The best game he played for us was at 7, controlled the game really well. But it was only a single game.

How he plays at 5/8 may not be the same as he’d play at 7.

As the rest of that comment said. It's not a choice as Cleary is and will be 7 for a long time. Even if you're right and he would be a better 9 the club won't move him. So the options are either Luai or Burton become the long term 6 or one goes to another position like Burton putting on weight and going to lock as an example.

 

[herbert henry1908]

As the rest of that comment said. It's not a choice as Cleary is and will be 7 for a long time. Even if you're right and he would be a better 9 the club won't move him. So the options are either Luai or Burton become the long term 6 or one goes to another position like Burton putting on weight and going to lock as an example.

I don’t think Cleary moving to 6 is that far out of the question, 9 is a bigger step. Plus Ivan won’t be here forever, if he gets sacked Nathan could either be moved or leave the club entirely.

 

[herbert henry1908]

We’ve sacked our last 3 coaches, odds are Ivan won’t see out his deal.

 

[OldPanther]

I don’t think Cleary moving to 6 is that far out of the question, 9 is a bigger step. Plus Ivan won’t be here forever, if he gets sacked Nathan could either be moved or leave the club entirely.

Yes but I'm talking about what's realistic in our next few years. There is no doubt at all that Nathan is 7 for the time Ivan is here. The only thing to consider is who the 6 and 9 are and if Edwards loses to one of the young blokes.

also

You: super intelligent half of 10 years who can read a game and player better than most can't judge off one game.

Also you: Luai is a 7 after 1 good game in the position.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Yes but I'm talking about what's realistic in our next few years. There is no doubt at all that Nathan is 7 for the time Ivan is here. The only thing to consider is who the 6 and 9 are and if Edwards loses to one of the young blokes.

also

You: super intelligent half of 10 years who can read a game and player better than most can't judge off one game.

Also you: Luai is a 7 after 1 good game in the position.

View attachment 32193

Ummmm, my interpretation of Luai being better at 7 is NOT based off the one game. It’s based on a range of factors. I talked about @therealist’s analysis of his play in another post. Standing wider means Luai is more chance of playing less directly at the line, gives him too much opportunity to run sideways. He’s also more of a natural ball player than Cleary. Where as Cleary standing a little wider gives him the opportunity to exploit gaps with his straight running



I think the idea that Ivan would never move Nathan is pretty sad, if that’s the case he’s more concerned about what’s best for his son than what’s best for the team. I’m not completely convinced that’s the way he’d go, but it was the risk in appointing him coach.

 

[OldPanther]

Ummmm, my interpretation of Luai being better at 7 is NOT based off the one game. It’s based on a range of factors. I talked about @therealist’s analysis of his play in another post. Standing wider means Luai is more chance of playing less directly at the line, gives him too much opportunity to run sideways. He’s also more of a natural ball player than Cleary. Where as Cleary standing a little wider gives him the opportunity to exploit gaps with his straight running



I think the idea that Ivan would never move Nathan is pretty sad, if that’s the case he’s more concerned about what’s best for his son than what’s best for the team. I’m not completely convinced that’s the way he’d go, but it was the risk in appointing him coach.

Your reply to me was that he'd be a good 7 and reference that game. Bit unfair to then throw in a separate conversation I wasn't aware of after the fact. I'm not psychic .

You're also doing the same thing Cronk is. Looking at a players attributes and assessing how they'd go.

Ivan has spoken about it before saying Nathan is a halfback. Whether I agree or not we'd need a change of coach to see any change there. He very well could end up a great 9 or 6 and it's an interesting conversation but what can you do. I'm not even against trying it just in case.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Your reply to me was that he'd be a good 7 and reference that game. Bit unfair to then throw in a separate conversation I wasn't aware of after the fact. I'm not psychic .

Ivan has spoken about it before saying Nathan is a halfback. Whether I agree or not we'd need a change of coach to see any change there. He very well could end up a great 9 or 6 and it's an interesting conversation but what can you do.

I was simply saying he’s shown he can play at 7, in reply to you saying he’s not at all a 7. Not that he’d be good at 7 because of one game, I even said at the end of my statement “it was only a single game, though”



Ivan also said Nathan has always been a 7, but that’s not true. He’s played at 6, 7 & 9 in the juniors.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Nathan Cleary even played at 5/8 for the Australian schoolboys, but Ivan says he’s always been a 7

 

[Kilkenny]

Ha ha touche my friend

Yeah I understand what you're saying mate, I really do, and I agree to a certain extent - Whilst I am hesitant to label our juniors as "the next best thing" I still have those Panthers goggles on that makes me think every junior is a godsend... It's a hard fence to sit on

Absolutely nothing wrong with having high expectations and we are entitled to be excited about our juniors.

The fact is in recent years most of the juniors who have come through the lower grades have been successful and are enjoying careers in the NRL.

Herbert trawled back to the Jarrod Sammut to use him as example of us supposedly over rating our juniors and burdening them with such high expectations. My recollection is Jarrod Sammut’s NRL career was basically ruined by his total misuse by then master coach Matt Elliot. He has gone on to enjoy a very successful career in the ESL and only recently clocked us 250 games while currently playing for the Wigan Warriors. He also notched up his 150th try recently so not to shabby a career.

 

[OldPanther]

I was simply saying he’s shown he can play at 7, in reply to you saying he’s not at all a 7. Not that he’d be good at 7 because of one game, I even said at the end of my statement “it was only a single game, though”



Ivan also said Nathan has always been a 7, but that’s not true. He’s played at 6, 7 & 9 in the juniors.

To be fair I was saying Cleary will be the 7 not Luai due to an unwillingness to move him. If Luai continued to play like he did that one time and I want him to I will change my mind. He's just playing like a headless chicken at the moment.

Nathan Cleary even played at 5/8 for the Australian schoolboys, but Ivan says he’s always been a 7

View attachment 32194

Good job Ivan you potato haha.

 

[herbert henry1908]

To be fair I was saying Cleary will be the 7 not Luai due to an unwillingness to move him. If Luai continued to play like he did that one time and I want him to I will change my mind. He's just playing like a headless chicken at the moment.



Good job Ivan you potato haha.

Luai needs some structure to settle him down, coming off the bench has hurt him. Every game he’s started in he’s looked better than the bench games. I think he’s coming on and trying too hard, possibly what’s expected of him to.

 

[franklin2323]

Heard a lot of people better than mje break down games and analyse players. Still doesn't make Cronk an infallible genius. Not arguing that Burton looks good, but predicting he's a great after one game where he missed 6 tackles? Let's stand back and make way for reality for a while before we judge.

I play oztag with a guy that played SG Ball with him and some of stuff he does even at training. Things like early in a set if the FB is all marker then the vision to kick to where he would be. That is the sort of stuff we lack

 

[Alintheeast]

Nathan Cleary even played at 5/8 for the Australian schoolboys, but Ivan says he’s always been a 7

View attachment 32194

I’ve always been a bloke but I occasionally wear a dress, Andrew Johns was always a halfback but he played hooker sometimes.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I’ve always been a bloke but I occasionally wear a dress, Andrew Johns was always a halfback but he played hooker sometimes.

That’s a generous interpretation of Ivan’s statement.

Fact is he played 9, 7 & 6 in the juniors. It’s not crazy to think his skill set might be better suited to another position.

 

[Alintheeast]

That’s a generous interpretation of Ivan’s statement.

Fact is he played 9, 7 & 6 in the juniors. It’s not crazy to think his skill set might be better suited to another position.

I would prefer to think that your conclusion is to narrow, perhaps he did play 9,7,6 maybe 3/4 or 1 his dad’s positions. Referring back to the statement you attribute to Ivan, Ivan didn’t advise than Nathan always PLAYED halfback. Nathan is a talented Halfback who has represented his club, his State and the game itself with distinction. Smarter people than you or I have said he is a halfback and a very good one.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I would prefer to think that your conclusion is to narrow, perhaps he did play 9,7,6 maybe 3/4 or 1 his dad’s positions. Referring back to the statement you attribute to Ivan, Ivan didn’t advise than Nathan always PLAYED halfback. Nathan is a talented Halfback who has represented his club, his State and the game itself with distinction. Smarter people than you or I have said he is a halfback and a very good one.

If it was just a few random club games I’d take your point, but the fact is he played all of 2015 in SG Ball at 5/8. Luai was the 7.

He also played a lot of games at hooker in Harold Matthews.


He’s been a solid halfback for the panthers, never let the team down. But the truth is he’s never dominated many games, the performance at the weekend was great, but they don’t come around too often. In terms of his play for NSW he did very little. Good defensively, that’s it.

 

[soc123_au]

My recollection is Jarrod Sammut’s NRL career was basically ruined by his total misuse by then master coach Matt Elliot.

Elliott got pissy after Jarrod played hide the sausage with his daughter, That was the end of his chances at Penrith.

 

[Westernised Panther]

Elliott got pissy after Jarrod played hide the sausage with his daughter, That was the end of his chances at Penrith.

Whoa!! Never heard that rumour.

No wonder he was sent packing, if indeed it was true

 

[The Realist]

Elliott got pissy after Jarrod played hide the sausage with his daughter, That was the end of his chances at Penrith.

Holy Smokes! I don't blame Sammut though, Elliot's daughter was stunningly beautiful.