2019 Discussion

[PenrithPanther45]

I don't fault the efforts of any of those you have mentioned. I love Josh, Dallin etc and I am not saying we need to go into the market for anyone, we can't anyway, but we urgently need to identify the cream of the crop from our juniors and fast track them into the top grade. Our current outside backs are not good enough compared to the better sides and accordingly we will not make the top four or go one step further in winning a competition until we find at least one superstar in this area. As I also said there are other areas as well which need addressing before we can confidently start talking about being a real top four side.

If you look at Cronulla though - their outside backs outside of Holmes and maybe Ramien aren't flashy. They do the job and are part of a well-oiled machine that starts with their halves which obviously then goes back to their pack dominating. Our backline would look better if our team in general had more direction and purpose in attack. Ultimately, I think we can work with what we have - we just need to get our set plays far better. The better teams have them - we currently don't. I see where you are getting at though but no need for any changes to start 2019.

 

[Kilkenny]

If you look at Cronulla though - their outside backs outside of Holmes and maybe Ramien aren't flashy. They do the job and are part of a well-oiled machine that starts with their halves which obviously then goes back to their pack dominating. Our backline would look better if our team in general had more direction and purpose in attack. Ultimately, I think we can work with what we have - we just need to get our set plays far better. The better teams have them - we currently don't. I see where you are getting at though but no need for any changes to start 2019.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points. I just think we have to be bold and brave in 2019. Just doing more of the same is not going to cut it for us as we are simply two the three quality players short of being a real top four side.

 

[PenrithPanther45]

I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points. I just think we have to be bold and brave in 2019. Just doing more of the same is not going to cut it for us as we are simply two the three quality players short of being a real top four side.

I think it's important we get the choice of coach right in order to be a top four side. We need to pick someone who will fix up our discipline. We have the potential no doubt, it is now about finding someone who can get the most out of it, including our backline. We really do need to finish in the four though to be any chance as you said.

 

[Kilkenny]

I think it's important we get the choice of coach right in order to be a top four side. We need to pick someone who will fix up our discipline. We have the potential no doubt, it is now about finding someone who can get the most out of it, including our backline. We really do need to finish in the four though to be any chance as you said.

I really struggle with the whole discipline thing.

I watch our games, most of which are at the game, then occasionally if I can stomach it I will watch replays of our games recorded on our foxtel IQ.

Week in week out I don't really see that we are that much more ill disciplined than any other side. We seem to get penalised more that is a given.

What I really hate is the fact we seem to incur penalties, rightly or wrongly, late in the tackle count while the penalties we seem to benefit from are meaningless ie on the first or second tackle while already on the attack.

We concede plenty of penalties on the last tackle, it happened on friday night but unless I am mistaken we rarely benefit from getting piggy back penalties late in the tackle count coming out of our own end.

It's not how many you get, it when you concede them and where that counts and we don't seem to get them when it matters.

 

[PenrithPanther45]

I really struggle with the whole discipline thing.

I watch our games, most of which are at the game, then occasionally if I can stomach it I will watch replays of our games recorded on our foxtel IQ.

Week in week out I don't really see that we are that much more ill disciplined than any other side. We seem to get penalised more that is a given.

What I really hate is the fact we seem to incur penalties, rightly or wrongly, late in the tackle count while the penalties we seem to benefit from are meaningless ie on the first or second tackle while already on the attack.

We concede plenty of penalties on the last tackle, it happened on friday night but unless I am mistaken we rarely benefit from getting piggy back penalties late in the tackle count coming out of our own end.

It's not how many you get, it when you concede them and where that counts and we don't seem to get them when it matters.

Yeah no the discipline thing is broader than just penalties - it's the errors, the stupid plays and as you said, the fact that we always seem to do them at the wrong time.

 

[Kilkenny]

Yeah no the discipline thing is broader than just penalties - it's the errors, the stupid plays and as you said, the fact that we always seem to do them at the wrong time.

Your 100% correct. I was only referring to the penalty component.

We do some dumb things, dumb plays as a consequence of not really have a proper offensive game plan. This has been an issue for us over the course of the last three seasons and nothing has really changed over the course of this period. When attacking deep inside opposition territory we are basically clueless and this ultimately leads to mistakes, poor execution and an inability to convert good field position into points.

 

[PenrithPanther45]

If merrin does leave and we make no other signs other than securing current players, this is the kind of side I'd eventually like to see run out. Ellis is solid, I just think we need to try for more off the bench.

1 Dylan Edwards 2 Josh Mansour 3 Waqa Blake 4 Dean Whare 5 Dallin Watene-Zelezniak 6 James Maloney 7 Nathan Cleary 8 James Tamou 9 Wayde Egan 10 Reagan Campbell-Gillard 11 Viliame Kikau 12 Isaah Yeo 13 James Fisher-Harris 14 Jarome Luai 15 Moses Leota 16 Nick Lui-Toso 17 Liam Martin/Corey Waddell

As much as I wanted to include Katoa on the bench (as I think he'd be better coming on after 30 minutes against a tiring pack, it was too hard to leave Luai out). Katoa could just as easily slot in there. Not sure where Luai would come on though given I don't think he plays hooker, which is an issue. I just think we really need him in there somewhere.

 

[OldPanther]

I've been saying in for a couple of seasons now, we lack size, power and above all pace in our three quarter line. Billy pointed out similar opinions a very good recent post highlighting similar concerns.

If we are honest our three quarters are a long way behind the better sides in the competition.

Josh Mansour was a beast a couple of seasons back but there has to be doubts he is ever going to rediscover his best form.

Dallin is Dallin, ever dependable at either fullback or on the wing but let's face it he is not known for his try scoring record and that is what the better wingers do in the modern game, score tries and lot's of them.

Dean Whare similar to DWZ hasn't played a lot in recent years but when fit he is solid at a time when we need more. We need another strike weapon in the centres to compliment Waqa Blake. Blake is the closest thing we have to a powerful, fast attacking weapon but he suffers from our teams game plan and our halves inability to create opportunities for him.

Given we have issues in our outside backs, halves, hooker and are lacking a top quality front rower then I don't see top 4 in 2019 unless we address some or all of our deficiencies.

I don't fault the efforts of any of those you have mentioned. I love Josh, Dallin etc and I am not saying we need to go into the market for anyone, we can't anyway, but we urgently need to identify the cream of the crop from our juniors and fast track them into the top grade. Our current outside backs are not good enough compared to the better sides and accordingly we will not make the top four or go one step further in winning a competition until we find at least one superstar in this area. As I also said there are other areas as well which need addressing before we can confidently start talking about being a real top four side.

Wingers get tries because thwy are on the end of backline set plays. It's catch and fall over the line. We don't seem to play like that with our plays going to the second rower most of the time. You said Egan doesn't have a running game and now DWZ isn't good enough. I'm not sure what games you're watching.


I doubt we want to start again with some more maybe promising juniors. It takes 50 games to become a first grade footballer apparently. That's 2 seasons we'd be setting ourselves back.

 

[tripster]

I keep harping on about it but I really hope we announce long term signings of JFH and Blake soon. Both of their contracts expire at the end of 2019.

Blake is the only player in our back line with blistering pace, and is finally getting enough experience under his belt that there are more and more diamonds and less rocks in his game.

JFH is, I think, our most important forward after Yeo and Kikau. I don’t think he has had a bad game all season. He gets through a ton of work, makes great yards, hits incredibly hard and rarely gives away any penalties. He doesn’t get the same accolades but is more important to the team than RCG.

 

[Tronald Crump]

1 Appoint the best coach for the job. Whoever that is. Do the interviews and see who is out there and what their opinions are on how they can improve us. If its Ciraldo so be it. But get him some experienced help in a good assistant.

2 Sorry but piss Merrin off. He is either passed it or needs a change.

3 Use his money to get a Experienced prop. Doesn't have to fancy but a mongrel who won't take a step back and leads the forward pack with RCG.

4. Bring in an experienced Hooker. Again doesn't have to be fancy but someone that has experience that can get the forward pack moving and knows when to pass and when to run. Something Katoa and Egan struggle with.
Wallace and Kingston have been ok but we haven't really had a decent hooker since Priddis, and he left 10 years ago.
If Daz is right and there are stupid clubs ready to throw big money at Egan for 2020. We may need someone anyway.
An experienced hooker would be an asset going forward should we lose Maloney end of next year and we could end up with an inexperienced spine come 2020 of Edwards, Luai and Cleary.
If Egan stays he can teach him.

As the most of the decent players are already signed up for next year (contracts mean shit) there are a lot of ifs and buts and the right pieces have to fall into place for some of the above to happen.
Its worth trying though.
If we stick with the same squad next year with Grant and MWZ I can't see much improvement.
Sure there are some good young guys coming through and they will get better but we need experience in the middle right now to lay a platform. So we can cut this shit out of trying to win a games by only playing half a game.
We have a premiership window open and with some smart squad tinkering I believe we can win it.

 

[ashton]

I've been saying in for a couple of seasons now, we lack size, power and above all pace in our three quarter line. Billy pointed out similar opinions a very good recent post highlighting similar concerns.

If we are honest our three quarters are a long way behind the better sides in the competition.

Josh Mansour was a beast a couple of seasons back but there has to be doubts he is ever going to rediscover his best form.

Dallin is Dallin, ever dependable at either fullback or on the wing but let's face it he is not known for his try scoring record and that is what the better wingers do in the modern game, score tries and lot's of them.

Dean Whare similar to DWZ hasn't played a lot in recent years but when fit he is solid at a time when we need more. We need another strike weapon in the centres to compliment Waqa Blake. Blake is the closest thing we have to a powerful, fast attacking weapon but he suffers from our teams game plan and our halves inability to create opportunities for him.

Given we have issues in our outside backs, halves, hooker and are lacking a top quality front rower then I don't see top 4 in 2019 unless we address some or all of our deficiencies.

I agree 100% with your post about our outside backs. Mansour is too slow and too small.
DWZ at fullback failed to get a finger on Townsend and Lewis for 2 of the Cronulla tries.
We need a try scoring machine like we had with Wesser for a couple of years because Dylan Edwards is steady at best.

 

[OldPanther]

We need a try scoring machine like we had with Wesser for a couple of years because Dylan Edwards is steady at best.

Bit harsh. He's had less than a full season. Our backline is fine we just couldn't keep it on the field this year. Every single one of them was out for long periods of time.

 

[franklin2323]

If merrin does leave and we make no other signs other than securing current players, this is the kind of side I'd eventually like to see run out. Ellis is solid, I just think we need to try for more off the bench.

1 Dylan Edwards 2 Josh Mansour 3 Waqa Blake 4 Dean Whare 5 Dallin Watene-Zelezniak 6 James Maloney 7 Nathan Cleary 8 James Tamou 9 Wayde Egan 10 Reagan Campbell-Gillard 11 Viliame Kikau 12 Isaah Yeo 13 James Fisher-Harris 14 Jarome Luai 15 Moses Leota 16 Nick Lui-Toso 17 Liam Martin/Corey Waddell

As much as I wanted to include Katoa on the bench (as I think he'd be better coming on after 30 minutes against a tiring pack, it was too hard to leave Luai out). Katoa could just as easily slot in there. Not sure where Luai would come on though given I don't think he plays hooker, which is an issue. I just think we really need him in there somewhere.

That starting team would match this year.. Not sure it gets us a Prelim or further and we'd struggle when injuries hit

 

[franklin2323]

Bit harsh. He's had less than a full season. Our backline is fine we just couldn't keep it on the field this year. Every single one of them was out for long periods of time.

No guarantee he gets better though. That is thing with unproven spines

 

[OldPanther]

No guarantee he gets better though. That is thing with unproven spines

No guarantee he doesn't. This attitude we have to make mass changes is weird. People are calling for our entire backline to be purged when really all we need is Merrin to get good or leave, switch Katoa/Egan and stop getting so many injuries.

 

[ashton]

No guarantee he gets better though. That is thing with unproven spines

Bit harsh. He's had less than a full season. Our backline is fine we just couldn't keep it on the field this year. Every single one of them was out for long periods of time.

He is not in the top 10 fullbacks in the NRL.......and he may never be.

 

[OldPanther]

He is not in the top 10 fullbacks in the NRL.......and he may never be.

I'd say he is.

 

[Big Mick]

Still a bit perplexed why we re-signed Mansour tbh. Would have rather kept Sivo and then had a contest between Too, Sivo and Aitkens in pre-season. I love sauce...but he's not exactly going to out-jump or out-sprint anyone now and sometimes has a turning circle of a cruise ship to chase a kick.

I hope we don't live to regret letting Sivo go.

 

[OldPanther]

Still a bit perplexed why we re-signed Mansour tbh. Would have rather kept Sivo and then had a contest between Too, Sivo and Aitkens in pre-season. I love sauce...but he's not exactly going to out-jump or out-sprint anyone now and sometimes has a turning circle of a cruise ship to chase a kick.

I hope we don't live to regret letting Sivo go.

We absolutely will regret it.

 

[ashton]

I'd say he is.

Slater No
Tom T No
Moses Mbye No
Ponga No
Boyd No
RTS No
Holmes No
Dufty No
Wighton No
James Tedesco No
Johnson No
Hoppa No