2019 Discussion

[umina panther]

Should be Tamou's too but both have school aged kids in the area. No certainty they decide to leave. Will be good for the cap wise but have we factored in they stay?

If Aussie Jim takes a pay cut id like to see him stay for a few more years, never thought I'd say that but he was pretty good last year

 

[mxlegend99]

If Aussie Jim takes a pay cut id like to see him stay for a few more years, never thought I'd say that but he was pretty good last year

If he were a $300k player it would completely change what is expected of him IMO. That's not elite money or close to it. So you woupdnt compare him to those guys anymore.

Just as RCG and Cleary on their new massive deals should have higher expectations. Cleary is no doubt on triple his previous contract and while being 3 times as good is damn near impossible. He needs to improve considerably and be more consistent.

We have too many guys paid for potential and not enough delivering on what they're earning.every year we lose guys to upgrade others. Those guys getting the upgrades better f**king prove they were worth it.

 

[franklin2323]

If Aussie Jim takes a pay cut id like to see him stay for a few more years, never thought I'd say that but he was pretty good last year

I agree but we will probably have some kid that may possibly be good in 2025 to use that money on

 

[franklin2323]

We have too many guys paid for potential and not enough delivering on what they're earning.every year we lose guys to upgrade others. Those guys getting the upgrades better f**king prove they were worth it.

You make this point better then me. As was the Case with Bryce and Moylan. We are paying RCG, Cleary etc what they should be worth in 2 or 3 years time. Not what they are worth now.

 

[BxTom]

You make this point better then me. As was the Case with Bryce and Moylan. We are paying RCG, Cleary etc what they should be worth in 2 or 3 years time. Not what they are worth now.

We are paying what management thinks is needed to get them to sign a contract with us instead of somebody else. I am sure management are better prepared to make that decision than any of us are. Get over it.

 

[Kilkenny]

We are paying what management thinks is needed to get them to sign a contract with us instead of somebody else. I am sure management are better prepared to make that decision than any of us are. Get over it.

100%,

In the first instance none of us know the amounts our players are being paid and frankly I suspect some are not being paid the massive amounts being speculated upon.

This forum would have been unbearable if we had not been able to resign the likes of Cleary, Blake and a host of others.

For some it really doesn’t matter what our management do, it is never going to be good enough.

 

[mxlegend99]

For some it really doesn’t matter what our management do, it is never going to be good enough.

And for others it really doesnt matter what our management do, they will defend it as if it were impossible to have done a better job.

.

This forum would have been unbearable if we had not been able to resign the likes of Cleary, Blake and a host of others.

You mean like releasing/losing the likes of Matt Moylan, Tyrone Peachey, Te Maire-Martin, Corey Harawira-Naera, Trent Merrin, Peta Hiku, Bryce Cartwright, Leilani Latu etc. To make it happen?

Along with forced retirements in Peter Wallace and Tim Browne. Losing half a dozen players a year to be able to re-sign a few is something every team is capable of doing at an absolute minimum.

The decisions are defended today, as will the decision to offload some of the guys we're resigning now to keep a bunch of new guys in 12 months time.

 

[Abacus]

Its amusing that so many think salary cap management is "set and forget". Every year clubs will try to put together the best roster they can, within the salary cap and based on the best information they have at a point in time. Player form and team chemistry is dynamic meaning last week's, or even yesterday's, decisions may no longer be the best strategy for the future - let alone decisions from previous seasons.

From a certain point in time, players will develop into stars (Kikau, Blake, JFH, etc) and go past other players already contracted (e.g. Peach, CHN, Merrin). Other players will have meltdowns (Bryce), personality clashes (Moylan), allegedly sleep with other players partners (TMM) or generally regress (Hiku, Latu).

When this happens, its time for the club to exhibit their salary cap management skill to recruit replacements, re-sign, negotiate releases, monitor junior development, etc.

Its also in the player's (& importantly in the negotiations, the player manager's) interests for the player not to be playing reserve grade, or extended selection on the bench (again, CHN, Peach). This reduces the player's bargaining power for future deals in the longer term. So when release negotiations start in respect of a tradeable player, there is often mutual benefit. And sometimes players will move to clubs where they have opportunity to start and consequently earn more. The club just needs to determine who is tradeable and who is off-limits.

Looking at our 1 to 13, IMO we're strong across the park. We also have sufficient depth down to player 25 (there's a few guys I've yet to see first-hand) to cover our seemingly inevitable injuries. In particular our spine coverage looks good with DWZ, Aekins, Luai, May & Katoa. McKendry may also give the club room to move.

Unlike a few on here, I think we are focused on 2019 and 2020 for a concerted premiership shot. While the squad is young, they have experience in finals and at rep level. The skill level of our depth players is improving every year. As is the case every year, the premiership will come down to which club can keep their critical players on the field for the majority of the year &/or at the right time of the year. IMO we're well placed to challenge the Top 4 and the premiership.

 

[betcats]

And for others it really doesnt matter what our management do, they will defend it as if it were impossible to have done a better job.


You mean like releasing/losing the likes of Matt Moylan, Tyrone Peachey, Te Maire-Martin, Corey Harawira-Naera, Trent Merrin, Peta Hiku, Bryce Cartwright, Leilani Latu etc. To make it happen?

Along with forced retirements in Peter Wallace and Tim Browne. Losing half a dozen players a year to be able to re-sign a few is something every team is capable of doing at an absolute minimum.

The decisions are defended today, as will the decision to offload some of the guys we're resigning now to keep a bunch of new guys in 12 months time.

Tmm, Bryce and Moylan all had some kind of personal issues behind their releases, it’s not the same as Merrin or Chn being moved on. Peachey chose to leave, he was off contract.

You guys just keep saying we f**ked up, tell us what the squad should look like, cause it’s a fact that we cannot keep them all, so if we didn’t release all the players you just mentioned mx who should have not re-signed? Waqa? Kikau? Then we could’ve held onto Hiku and Merrin and we’d be much better off yeah? Lol.

Any comment that uses Hiku and Merrin being released as an example of bad cap management is pretty silly imo.

 

[franklin2323]

And for others it really doesnt matter what our management do, they will defend it as if it were impossible to have done a better job.

You mean like releasing/losing the likes of Matt Moylan, Tyrone Peachey, Te Maire-Martin, Corey Harawira-Naera, Trent Merrin, Peta Hiku, Bryce Cartwright, Leilani Latu etc. To make it happen?

Along with forced retirements in Peter Wallace and Tim Browne. Losing half a dozen players a year to be able to re-sign a few is something every team is capable of doing at an absolute minimum.

The decisions are defended today, as will the decision to offload some of the guys we're resigning now to keep a bunch of new guys in 12 months time.

If history has shown anything. If those like Martin, Blore etc get to FG several guys will go to re-sign them. The same guys will be applauding the situation

 

[betcats]

If history has shown anything. If those like Martin, Blore etc get to FG several guys will go to re-sign them. The same guys will be applauding the situation

And if we had of not re-signed any one of Waqa, Kikau, CLeary etc you would be using that as an excuse to bag our management.

I really don't understand this idea that because we have released players in the past we are just going to keep doing it. Turning over all these players is how we have rebuilt the club and got the salary cap into a good spot after it being completely f**ked. The squad will be managed and there will be changes but the player turnover is going to slow down, it already has.

You are just predicting the future in order to bag our management now.

Gus wants to win and he has spoken numerous times about the need for an experienced squad to compete for a premiership, he knows what it takes but that doesn't mean he is going to keep bad contracts just because the players are experienced and every club in the game plans ahead and releases players in order to keep the players they need to.

 

[franklin2323]

Its amusing that so many think salary cap management is "set and forget". Every year clubs will try to put together the best roster they can, within the salary cap and based on the best information they have at a point in time. Player form and team chemistry is dynamic meaning last week's, or even yesterday's, decisions may no longer be the best strategy for the future - let alone decisions from previous seasons.

From a certain point in time, players will develop into stars (Kikau, Blake, JFH, etc) and go past other players already contracted (e.g. Peach, CHN, Merrin). Other players will have meltdowns (Bryce), personality clashes (Moylan), allegedly sleep with other players partners (TMM) or generally regress (Hiku, Latu).

When this happens, its time for the club to exhibit their salary cap management skill to recruit replacements, re-sign, negotiate releases, monitor junior development, etc.

Its also in the player's (& importantly in the negotiations, the player manager's) interests for the player not to be playing reserve grade, or extended selection on the bench (again, CHN, Peach). This reduces the player's bargaining power for future deals in the longer term. So when release negotiations start in respect of a tradeable player, there is often mutual benefit. And sometimes players will move to clubs where they have opportunity to start and consequently earn more. The club just needs to determine who is tradeable and who is off-limits.

Looking at our 1 to 13, IMO we're strong across the park. We also have sufficient depth down to player 25 (there's a few guys I've yet to see first-hand) to cover our seemingly inevitable injuries. In particular our spine coverage looks good with DWZ, Aekins, Luai, May & Katoa. McKendry may also give the club room to move.

Unlike a few on here, I think we are focused on 2019 and 2020 for a concerted premiership shot. While the squad is young, they have experience in finals and at rep level. The skill level of our depth players is improving every year. As is the case every year, the premiership will come down to which club can keep their critical players on the field for the majority of the year &/or at the right time of the year. IMO we're well placed to challenge the Top 4 and the premiership.

Players going past others is great. It means the team is growing the problem is the moment that happens the player that has been overtaken is out the door. Nothing wrong with finding a similar player 1st so we still have the depth.

Our top 13 was going to be our top 13 BUT how much better depth wise would we be in Peachey, Merrin and CHN were on the bench.

The 4 teams that finished in front of us who has gone backwards? I don't think we look enough at what our competition is doing. Only the Broncs out of the top 8 teams look weaker and Cows and Knights seem stronger. We don't look bad but look no better or worse then we were the previous 2 seasons

 

[franklin2323]

And if we had of not re-signed any one of Waqa, Kikau, CLeary etc you would be using that as an excuse to bag our management.

I really don't understand this idea that because we have released players in the past we are just going to keep doing it. Turning over all these players is how we have rebuilt the club and got the salary cap into a good spot after it being completely f**ked. The squad will be managed and there will be changes but the player turnover is going to slow down, it already has.

You are just predicting the future in order to bag our management now.

Gus wants to win and he has spoken numerous times about the need for an experienced squad to compete for a premiership, he knows what it takes but that doesn't mean he is going to keep bad contracts just because the players are experienced and every club in the game plans ahead and releases players in order to keep the players they need to.

No one is saying to keep the bad contracts but just because you release a bad deal doesn't mean you can't bring a cheap replacement in to fill the void. Greg Eastwood for example is playing for Newtown for less then minimum wage he could do the same for us and be able to be used if needed.

On that Penrith day on Fox sports. There was the warriors game from round 10 in 2017. from the 17 that took the field for us only 8 still are here. That's not a rebuilding team?

You have DWZ fullback this year. You don't think Edwards will go a season early if that is the case?

Maloney and Tamou most think we go 12 months early.

One of the 2 hookers is off contract

I don't know if Aekins will do another season in just NSW Cup.

Tim Grant. Fuimaono and Sele are only for one season.

Phillips off contract end of this year.

So that is 9 there almost 1/3 of the squad that rebuilding numbers there on the back of similar numbers in the past season.

Any you think off that list that shouldn't be?

 

[betcats]

No one is saying to keep the bad contracts but just because you release a bad deal doesn't mean you can't bring a cheap replacement in to fill the void. Greg Eastwood for example is playing for Newtown for less then minimum wage he could do the same for us and be able to be used if needed.

On that Penrith day on Fox sports. There was the warriors game from round 10 in 2017. from the 17 that took the field for us only 8 still are here. That's not a rebuilding team?

You have DWZ fullback this year. You don't think Edwards will go a season early if that is the case?

Maloney and Tamou most think we go 12 months early.

One of the 2 hookers is off contract

I don't know if Aekins will do another season in just NSW Cup.

Tim Grant. Fuimaono and Sele are only for one season.

Phillips off contract end of this year.

So that is 9 there almost 1/3 of the squad that rebuilding numbers there on the back of similar numbers in the past season.

Any you think off that list that shouldn't be?

The idea is the cheap replacements will be developed internally for the most part and we have brought in cheap replacements for merrin so I don't really know what you are complaining about.

If Edwards wants out then we are best off letting him go. Is it now managements fault when a player wants out because he doesn't get his preferred position? I don't think so.

There will always be these situations its unavoidable, you are bagging our management for things that happen at every club. Making these decisions is part of the game and managing your cap effectively, it is not a sign that it is being managed poorly.

 

[betcats]

Players going past others is great. It means the team is growing the problem is the moment that happens the player that has been overtaken is out the door. Nothing wrong with finding a similar player 1st so we still have the depth.

Our top 13 was going to be our top 13 BUT how much better depth wise would we be in Peachey, Merrin and CHN were on the bench.

The 4 teams that finished in front of us who has gone backwards? I don't think we look enough at what our competition is doing. Only the Broncs out of the top 8 teams look weaker and Cows and Knights seem stronger. We don't look bad but look no better or worse then we were the previous 2 seasons

What are you on about?? If we had Merrin, CHN and PEachey on the bench we would not have all of Cleary, Waqa, JFH and Kikau in the squad, we'd have lost one or two of them for sure. You are literally complaining because we aren't stockpiling players which is what the salary cap is designed to prevent. Merrin was on rep money, Peachey got rep money on his new deal being an origin player. You are complaining because we cant afford to keep two guys on big rep money contracts on the bench, its ridiculous.

 

[TheFrog]

The 4 teams that finished in front of us who has gone backwards?

Sharks for sure. Gallen is just a figurehead, Holmes and Lewis are gone and so is Flanno, and Graham is out half the season. Storm appear to be on the decline since their 2017 peak. Slater is irreplaceable and Smith is getting on. Rabbitohs have lost Crichton and remains to be seen how S Burgess goes after his dramas, GI isn't what he once was, also Cook might prove to be a one season wonder. The Roosters were blessed with injuries in the latter stages, apart from Cronk in the GF and the Storm were unable to take advantage of him being a passenger. Their forwards are bog average and they are notorious for following good seasons with bad.

So I'd say all of them. But we've lost a couple of topliners as well, and we have question marks over the props and hooker.

 

[betcats]

Sharks for sure. Gallen is just a figurehead, Holmes and Lewis are gone and so is Flanno, and Graham is out half the season. Storm appear to be on the decline since their 2017 peak. Slater is irreplaceable and Smith is getting on. Rabbitohs have lost Crichton and remains to be seen how S Burgess goes after his dramas, GI isn't what he once was, also Cook might prove to be a one season wonder. The Roosters were blessed with injuries in the latter stages, apart from Cronk in the GF and the Storm were unable to take advantage of him being a passenger. Their forwards are bog average and they are notorious for following good seasons with bad.

So I'd say all of them. But we've lost a couple of topliners as well, and we have question marks over the props and hooker.

Its hard to argue that the roosters got worse, but I see what you mean with their injuries. IF they have an injury run like ours last season they don't get to the GF.

 

[franklin2323]

Sharks for sure. Gallen is just a figurehead, Holmes and Lewis are gone and so is Flanno, and Graham is out half the season. Storm appear to be on the decline since their 2017 peak. Slater is irreplaceable and Smith is getting on. Rabbitohs have lost Crichton and remains to be seen how S Burgess goes after his dramas, GI isn't what he once was, also Cook might prove to be a one season wonder. The Roosters were blessed with injuries in the latter stages, apart from Cronk in the GF and the Storm were unable to take advantage of him being a passenger. Their forwards are bog average and they are notorious for following good seasons with bad.

So I'd say all of them. But we've lost a couple of topliners as well, and we have question marks over the props and hooker.

Some would say Flanno being gone is a good thing. Johnson and Morris come in
Bennett is a better coach then Seibold and no too many player loses
Roosters had the same bog average pack this year. Add Crichton and Morris hell even that pom is better then Ferguson.

 

[franklin2323]

What are you on about?? If we had Merrin, CHN and PEachey on the bench we would not have all of Cleary, Waqa, JFH and Kikau in the squad, we'd have lost one or two of them for sure. You are literally complaining because we aren't stockpiling players which is what the salary cap is designed to prevent. Merrin was on rep money, Peachey got rep money on his new deal being an origin player. You are complaining because we cant afford to keep two guys on big rep money contracts on the bench, its ridiculous.

All those guys you mentioned were under contract for 2019. Next season would of been the issue

 

[franklin2323]

The idea is the cheap replacements will be developed internally for the most part and we have brought in cheap replacements for merrin so I don't really know what you are complaining about.

If Edwards wants out then we are best off letting him go. Is it now managements fault when a player wants out because he doesn't get his preferred position? I don't think so.

There will always be these situations its unavoidable, you are bagging our management for things that happen at every club. Making these decisions is part of the game and managing your cap effectively, it is not a sign that it is being managed poorly.

If we replace Edwards with someone like Crichton then that the club can help. Not the letting them go it is replacing with guys that are still a bit off being FGwea.

I have said I don't think we are any better or worse then in 2016. If you aren't improving how can the cap be managed well? We are doing an ok job but can be better