2019 Top 30

[franklin2323]

Why don’t the Gus haters (the minority) start their own thread, that way you can all speculate together.

Personally, I’m neither here nor there on old Gus. I do love what he’s done for the club, but sometimes I cringe at shit he says.

I’m really happy with the players he’s managed to extend with us, I’m sad to see Peach and CHN go, but, Kikau, Cleary, Blake, Leota and hopefully Luai

Imagine if Kikau or Blake had of gone to the open market. Sounds like good cap management to me.

Our 2019 roster is the thread like it or not Gus is part of that.

Re-signing a guy 15 months out from the contract expiring shouldn't mean we have to get let guys go that finish that same year.

When Cowboys re-signed Morgan they were about to not have to release guys. They are about the same level as us with location and corporate support

 

[Kilkenny]

Happy for Trent Merrin backing himself and deciding to stay but it is huge gamble that may backfire if he is not able to rediscover his best form. The deal on the table with Leeds was four years and probably similar or more money than he is on now. Anything less than a really good 2019 and there is unlikely to be similar offers available to him this time next year.

 

[Luke Bowden]

Our 2019 roster is the thread like it or not Gus is part of that.

Re-signing a guy 15 months out from the contract expiring shouldn't mean we have to get let guys go that finish that same year.

When Cowboys re-signed Morgan they were about to not have to release guys. They are about the same level as us with location and corporate support

Cleary, Kikau, Blake, Leota, they all have been re-signed, the offers have attractive enough to prevent the player from going to open market. As our squad improves, it costs more. It’s not rocket science.

 

[Luke Bowden]

Happy for Trent Merrin backing himself and deciding to stay but it is huge gamble that may backfire if he is not able to rediscover his best form. The deal on the table with Leeds was four years and probably similar or more money than he is on now. Anything less than a really good 2019 and there is unlikely to be similar offers available to him this time next year.

Re-make or break for Trent. Good on him, I love it.

 

[umina panther]

Re-make or break for Trent. Good on him, I love it.

Yeah he really does seem like a good dude.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Yeah he really does seem like a good dude.

Totally agree.

 

[Kilkenny]

Explain it then. No one has despite several people asking. We have a young team locked up long term. Wouldn't the 1st Interest be keeping that top squad together for as long as possible? The more people on min wage the easier that is

I think we used 28 players in season 2018 so the top squad is just more than the first choice 17.

There's a saying along the lines of, "You get what you pay for"

The minimum $100,000 applies to the clubs top 26 contracted players. The remaining four in 2018 only had to be paid the minimum of $70,000. It is my understanding our 27-30 received no less than $100,000 so the cost to the salary cap in the vicinity of $120,000.

The immediate benefits I would have thought were obvious probably including morale, motivation and performance.

The long terms benefits include the potential to recruit or retain fringe players, young or otherwise.

The most significant benefit to the club is when one or more of the 27-30 goes from being on the fringes, improves and becomes a regular first grader he is more likely to remain loyal, stay with the club and perhaps for less money than he could have received by leaving the club. I would suggest we have a number of players who would fit into this category. Jerome Luai is one that springs to mind.

For a relatively modest investment the benefits are obvious and this list is not exhaustive. Twitter the same question to Phil Gould I'm sure he could give the full list of benefits.

 

[franklin2323]

Cleary, Kikau, Blake, Leota, they all have been re-signed, the offers have attractive enough to prevent the player from going to open market. As our squad improves, it costs more. It’s not rocket science.

There is big difference between a strong top 17 and strong squad. We have a strong 17 but a weak squad overall

 

[franklin2323]

I think we used 28 players in season 2018 so the top squad is just more than the first choice 17.

There's a saying along the lines of, "You get what you pay for"

The minimum $100,000 applies to the clubs top 26 contracted players. The remaining four in 2018 only had to be paid the minimum of $70,000. It is my understanding our 27-30 received no less than $100,000 so the cost to the salary cap in the vicinity of $120,000.

The immediate benefits I would have thought were obvious probably including morale, motivation and performance.

The long terms benefits include the potential to recruit or retain fringe players, young or otherwise.

The most significant benefit to the club is when one or more of the 27-30 goes from being on the fringes, improves and becomes a regular first grader he is more likely to remain loyal, stay with the club and perhaps for less money than he could have received by leaving the club. I would suggest we have a number of players who would fit into this category. Jerome Luai is one that springs to mind.

For a relatively modest investment the benefits are obvious and this list is not exhaustive. Twitter the same question to Phil Gould I'm sure he could give the full list of benefits.

Realistically how much FG is someone like Pua going to play? Or how much FG for us fullstop?

If we offer say minimum. Someone else offers $150k and he goes. Does it affect our chances this year?

The stage of our squad now makes such things stupid. Luai is different as he will go to being 5/8th once Maloney goes.

That is the difference between us and the top few teams.

 

[franklin2323]

So you’re speculating.

You’re also speculating that he was the one that sacked Hook.

I’ve heard his axing was driven by the board of directors.

You asked a figure I said one. Point is hook and his manager would push for their full entitlement for the 2 years left.

 

[BxTom]

Realistically how much FG is someone like Pua going to play? Or how much FG for us fullstop?

If we offer say minimum. Someone else offers $150k and he goes. Does it affect our chances this year?

The stage of our squad now makes such things stupid. Luai is different as he will go to being 5/8th once Maloney goes.

That is the difference between us and the top few teams.

Jerome Luai didn't play much FG last year. If he was only on minimum salary, we may have lost him...

Think about it.

 

[franklin2323]

Jerome Luai didn't play much FG last year. If he was only on minimum salary, we may have lost him...

Think about it.

We still have Maloney for 2 more years.

No amount of money we can offer gives him a starting jersey.

Also he is 4 games in. What if someone else is better than him by the time Maloney goes?

Aside from Egan/Katoa that is the situation across the squad. 8 of our expected starters are under 25 so bar a Moylan or Carty meltdown. That won't change so paying overs has no purpose

 

[Luke Bowden]

There is big difference between a strong top 17 and strong squad. We have a strong 17 but a weak squad overall

Disagree

 

[Luke Bowden]

You asked a figure I said one. Point is hook and his manager would push for their full entitlement for the 2 years left.

Point is. You’re guessing. About the whole situation.

 

[Abacus]

We still have Maloney for 2 more years.

No amount of money we can offer gives him a starting jersey.

Also he is 4 games in. What if someone else is better than him by the time Maloney goes?

Aside from Egan/Katoa that is the situation across the squad. 8 of our expected starters are under 25 so bar a Moylan or Carty meltdown. That won't change so paying overs has no purpose

Trawling back looking for the reference from Gus saying the club doesn't pay minimum salary and found the following from Big Mick:

Mate...come on...be real. Do you really believe Egan and May re-signed for the minimum "Just to be in our top 30". Both were being chased by multiple clubs last year. Soon as May debuted you add at least 100-120k to his contract because that's the business. If you don't, you lose them. Same goes for CHN...in fact for CHN it was add 200k.

Egan was in NYC team of the year and in this age of hookers being vitally important to build around...he was a hot property. I know at least 3 clubs offering him 175k+ last year before re-signing with us.

Jed was chased by Manly so he'd be on just above Minimum while Kaide Ellis is off contract this year along with Oliver Clark and Liam Martin and those will be tough to re-sign as other clubs are already sniffing around them - Especially if any of them debut and go ok on debut. You'd assume of those Ellis will debut at some stage.

But thing is...if we lost these guys...these young prospects that you feel aren't valuable right now or should be only the minimum....then you'd be the first one here blaming Gus losing those guys at the expense of keeping guys like Browne and Tamou. Be honest with yourself for a second...and tell me you wouldn't?

Now, the reality of the situation is that we have a lot of guys off contract this year and next that will need to be kept. Waqa, RCG, Cleary top the list while guys like Ellis, CHN, May, Egan etc will be all due extensions soon enough after as they signed 2 year deals mostly. Obviously the priorities will be Cleary, RCG and Egan in that list due to spine/middle forward priority.

We had saved some money by getting rid of Carty while Peach's 300k will go towards Cleary also.

I think we need to realise that Mansour, unless something changes, will likely not be here next year. I'd love him to stay but I don't think it's fair for him to sacrifice any more money. If he does though...along with getting long service discount if Sam retires...then great.

Tamou wont be re-signed post current deal which runs out 2020 I believe and likely shipped 1 year early and possibly Merrin and Maloney also. This will be to clear the decks for Cleary contract for 2020 and beyond.

The question is this - Will all of this movement and cap management be worth it? Because if Cleary doesn't re-sign...then we may have set our team back 5 years.

Seems a pretty thorough explanation that the market prevents the club paying the minimum to the current batch of juniors in the NRL squad.

 

[franklin2323]

Point is. You’re guessing. About the whole situation.

You guessing too. Most of us on here do. This is taken from Gus when he sacked Ivan. He said it was his call. That was the start of the decline for me

 

[franklin2323]

Trawling back looking for the reference from Gus saying the club doesn't pay minimum salary and found the following from Big Mick:



Seems a pretty thorough explanation that the market prevents the club paying the minimum to the current batch of juniors in the NRL squad.

No. In one of the 6 tackles with Gus podcasts when Manly got done. He was speaking about the cap he said we don't pay minimum wage. His own mouth possibly that is where others heard it from.

This is the thing though. Sharks and Parra for example have an aging team so getting youth may be their priority. Gus himself has mentioned we need older guys.

I am not saying we turn off the juniors cap but why pay overs for a backup guy because x club does? That is why we are in this problem. Tim Grant is the style of guy we should go for when x player is too expensive

 

[Luke Bowden]

You guessing too. Most of us on here do. This is taken from Gus when he sacked Ivan. He said it was his call. That was the start of the decline for me

I’m not guessing at all. I’m basing my opinions on what I know for sure. What I know for sure is, the club is in a much better place now, then it was before Gus.

We have a team full of players that I love to watch and hopefully we now have a coach that will get the best out of them.

No guessing.

 

[Abacus]

No. In one of the 6 tackles with Gus podcasts when Manly got done. He was speaking about the cap he said we don't pay minimum wage. His own mouth possibly that is where others heard it from.

This is the thing though. Sharks and Parra for example have an aging team so getting youth may be their priority. Gus himself has mentioned we need older guys.

I am not saying we turn off the juniors cap but why pay overs for a backup guy because x club does? That is why we are in this problem. Tim Grant is the style of guy we should go for when x player is too expensive

My interpretation of minimum payments in the Top 30 from Big Mick's post is that the club is having to pay extra to retain its talented juniors due to competition from other clubs.

Its the result of having a successful juniors program - other clubs want Panthers juniors. And remember it is only our elite juniors that are promoted to Top 30. So if there is interest in Liam Martin from another couple of clubs wanting to pay him $150k, Panthers may be able to keep him for $120k-$130k, but not the minimum.

Alternatively you let him go and if he does have a successful NRL career (which our club thinks he will), you rue not paying him an extra $20k-$30k to retain him.

The other point is you may also have to then go and recruit someone else's junior or a player with little opportunity elsewhere. So you end up spending the $120k-$130k, if not more, anyway.

I like TG, but I don't think he necessarily makes our roster stronger based on his past few seasons. And I don't think he's here on $150k. For what he brings, you may get the same from Lui Toso or Ellis for less.

 

[franklin2323]

My interpretation of minimum payments in the Top 30 from Big Mick's post is that the club is having to pay extra to retain its talented juniors due to competition from other clubs.

Its the result of having a successful juniors program - other clubs want Panthers juniors. And remember it is only our elite juniors that are promoted to Top 30. So if there is interest in Liam Martin from another couple of clubs wanting to pay him $150k, Panthers may be able to keep him for $120k-$130k, but not the minimum.

Alternatively you let him go and if he does have a successful NRL career (which our club thinks he will), you rue not paying him an extra $20k-$30k to retain him.

The other point is you may also have to then go and recruit someone else's junior or a player with little opportunity elsewhere. So you end up spending the $120k-$130k, if not more, anyway.

I like TG, but I don't think he necessarily makes our roster stronger based on his past few seasons. And I don't think he's here on $150k. For what he brings, you may get the same from Lui Toso or Ellis for less.

May being the key word. A knock out semi and we need a prop to come in. You are saying you'd rather someone on debut then an ex origin player with 150 odd games?