2020 Membership

[taipan]

And Adelaide, perth, Sydney , Brisbane? I mean if you are a shark fan and live in The shire you’re a 15min Drive way from the ground! If anything given the amount of grounds in Sydney I doubt fans need to travel anywhere near as far as other cities to get to the stadium.

One word bullsh*t. If you live at Engadine, Loftus for a start on a good day with little traffic 20 minutes.If you are doing it on weekday or weekend basis good luck.I know on a weekday example, 35m from Lilli Pilli to Sylvania within the Shire. 6pm Friday night game, welcome to the mobile car park.
And there are Shark fans i know, who travel from near Penrith and Cessnock to come to Sharks games, and they tell me how time consuming and frustrating it is.And the time they get home at night.

Your lack of real understanding with traffic conditions in Sydney ,not on occasional visits but daily, shows

And as for geography ,Sydney is much bigger spread than Melbourne ,has no direct rail to ANZ or the SFS.Adelaide oval is in the centre of the city, and its traffic would be a smooth ride compared to Sydney.Perth and Brisbane gar smaller than Sydney.
And if it was so easy in Brisbane they'd be filling their stadium every time the Broncos played.The Gold Coast has traffic issues with a 600k population, and how big are their home crowds.

The bigger the geography of the city, the poorer the transport infrastructure.,the bigger the population ,the bigger the issues for people getting to sport and recreation in that city.

Some of your generalisations ,you seem to have plucked out of the air.

It's just simplistic to draw comparisons with Sydney and other mainland capitals, the comparison is flawed.

 

[Wily Ole Dog]

Taipan. You’re right to a degree as PRed is also

Yes some game times create difficulties like the 6pm on Friday, as you stated.
Throw in Thursday as well but traffic or travel time as an excuse for Saturday, Sunday & 8.30 Friday games is just a cop out

 

[franklin2323]

One word bullsh*t. If you live at Engadine, Loftus for a start on a good day with little traffic 20 minutes.If you are doing it on weekday or weekend basis good luck.I know on a weekday example, 35m from Lilli Pilli to Sylvania within the Shire. 6pm Friday night game, welcome to the mobile car park.
And there are Shark fans i know, who travel from near Penrith and Cessnock to come to Sharks games, and they tell me how time consuming and frustrating it is.And the time they get home at night.

Your lack of real understanding with traffic conditions in Sydney ,not on occasional visits but daily, shows

And as for geography ,Sydney is much bigger spread than Melbourne ,has no direct rail to ANZ or the SFS.Adelaide oval is in the centre of the city, and its traffic would be a smooth ride compared to Sydney.Perth and Brisbane gar smaller than Sydney.
And if it was so easy in Brisbane they'd be filling their stadium every time the Broncos played.The Gold Coast has traffic issues with a 600k population, and how big are their home crowds.

The bigger the geography of the city, the poorer the transport infrastructure.,the bigger the population ,the bigger the issues for people getting to sport and recreation in that city.

Some of your generalisations ,you seem to have plucked out of the air.

It's just simplistic to draw comparisons with Sydney and other mainland capitals, the comparison is flawed.

If you work weekends though that timeslot can be better especially with kids.

Maybe that timeslot you have kids free. Cheaper for students that may finish high school/Uni at 3pm but work Sat/Sunday

Newcastle has shown that you can still get decent crowds for that timeslot. I agree it is hard but there are ways around it

 

[franklin2323]

the Sydney mindset is that they couldn’t be stuffed.

they need to be incentivised

That is the big different between the fans of both codes. AFL fans need a reason not to attend NRL fans need reasons to attend

 

[taipan]

If you work weekends though that timeslot can be better especially with kids.

Maybe that timeslot you have kids free. Cheaper for students that may finish high school/Uni at 3pm but work Sat/Sunday

Newcastle has shown that you can still get decent crowds for that timeslot. I agree it is hard but there are ways around it

How many work through weekends? If you want families to go , that's the issue
Newcastle is an exception top any city in this country for rugby league.

 

[franklin2323]

How many work through weekends? If you want families to go , that's the issue
Newcastle is an exception top any city in this country for rugby league.

That is where it is up to the clubs to do their research and find why those passive fans aren’t attending. Not sure of the numbers but I know in my group of 10 we have 3 that are in Real Estate so weekends are harder then week nights.

You always get the die hard 5-6k that come regardless but where are the other 20k members and the 100,000’s on social media that are fans. There is a huge untapped market

 

[League Unlimited News]

https://leagueunlimited.com/news/34223-2020-nrl-membership-tracker/

Nothing from the Broncos, Sharks or Titans yet - still - and no changes from the Warriors or Panthers for a long while now. More than 40k behind last year and only realistically 30-35k of that would be covered by the clubs not reporting.

 

[Perth Red]

I can't believe you don't think that grounds in Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth in particular are easier to access than those in Sydney. Bizarre.

I can’t believe that you don’t think that having a stadium in the same region you live in is easier to get to than travelling from Dandenong to MCG. Or Joondalup to Optus, or Salisbury to Adelaide oval. We keep hearing that the likes of penrith, manly and Cronulla couldn’t possibly move as all there fans live next door to the stadium and wouldn’t travel.

How many millions of people live within a 45min travel radius of Bankwest stadium?
Just more excuses from an apathetic RL fan.

 

[Perth Red]

One word bullsh*t. If you live at Engadine, Loftus for a start on a good day with little traffic 20 minutes.If you are doing it on weekday or weekend basis good luck.I know on a weekday example, 35m from Lilli Pilli to Sylvania within the Shire. 6pm Friday night game, welcome to the mobile car park.
And there are Shark fans i know, who travel from near Penrith and Cessnock to come to Sharks games, and they tell me how time consuming and frustrating it is.And the time they get home at night.

Your lack of real understanding with traffic conditions in Sydney ,not on occasional visits but daily, shows

And as for geography ,Sydney is much bigger spread than Melbourne ,has no direct rail to ANZ or the SFS.Adelaide oval is in the centre of the city, and its traffic would be a smooth ride compared to Sydney.Perth and Brisbane gar smaller than Sydney.
And if it was so easy in Brisbane they'd be filling their stadium every time the Broncos played.The Gold Coast has traffic issues with a 600k population, and how big are their home crowds.

The bigger the geography of the city, the poorer the transport infrastructure.,the bigger the population ,the bigger the issues for people getting to sport and recreation in that city.

Some of your generalisations ,you seem to have plucked out of the air.

It's just simplistic to draw comparisons with Sydney and other mainland capitals, the comparison is flawed.

35mins travel to a game isnt a hardship when living in a major city. How many people live in a 35min travel radius of shark park?

as you said broncos show just having the facilities that are centrally accessible doesn’t guarantee a good population % of attendance. You need to work hard to get people to buy your product.

Optus stadium is a bus and train ride for most in perth (you can’t drive to it) taking anything from 30-60mins on public transport for the majority of fans to get to yet the the clubs playing there have no problem getting 40k plus to it out of a city of 2mill. It takes a number of factors to get people to live sport but if you don’t have the population catchment within a reasonable travel time your going to struggle whatever you do. One of the reasons your clubs membership and attendance is largely stagnant.

 

[taipan]

That is where it is up to the clubs to do their research and find why those passive fans aren’t attending. Not sure of the numbers but I know in my group of 10 we have 3 that are in Real Estate so weekends are harder then week nights.

You always get the die hard 5-6k that come regardless but where are the other 20k members and the 100,000’s on social media that are fans. There is a huge untapped market

Mate , Scheduling plays a huge part for a start, and bear in mind the Sharks are hardly Robinson Crusoe attracting numbers of visitors.
Here are some examples of the biggest crowds at Shark Park.Leaving aside the Sharks V dragons games which always ensure big crowds, yet clowns want to merge these teams.Or do away with teh derby.
31/7/05 Sharks v Tigers 18,321
12/7/08 Sharks v Sea Eagles 18,217
3/7/11 Sharks v Rabbitohs 18,829
6/9/15 Sharks v Sea Eagles 19,146
2/7/16 Sharks v Eels 19,124
Now attending those games I remember decent numbers of Tigers fans,Rabbitohs fans and then Eels fans.But the overwhelming majority Sharks' fans.
As to the games against the Sea Eagles ,just a handful of their fans.
Plus the most recent was the Sharks v Raiders 1/9/19 played at 2pm Sunday.Decent numbers of Raiders but large numbers(being the biggest majority) of Sharks fans in attendance.

My point is scheduling plays a huge part in likely attendees, and there has been a noticeable drop off in visiting fans from other Sydney clubs.eg against Souths in 2011.
You are correct, there are uni students, students,shift workers, weekend workers ,part timers, working parents and of course the dreaded live coverage on Fox.Trying to schedule to please all of them is a task too far.

The economy has been tight also for a few years, wages barely risen, uncertainty,people not spending, car sales well down, stores closing.
I wish it were so simple.
That's not to excuse clubs from not offering incentives,2 for 3 adults, discount days, coupons for a free pie.Or the longer you are a member ,the bigger the discount in annual subs.

No doubt the tragics will travel for their team and attend, but even then I've seen absentees of members when there is a sh*thouse scheduled match at the home games.6pm a classic example.

You only have to drive around the Shire and see literally hundreds of cars/SUV/utes with Shark's numberplates and car stickers.There is support built up over 50+. years, evidenced by the 16 G/F

 

[Timmah]

I can’t believe that you don’t think that having a stadium in the same region you live in is easier to get to than travelling from Dandenong to MCG. Or Joondalup to Optus, or Salisbury to Adelaide oval. We keep hearing that the likes of penrith, manly and Cronulla couldn’t possibly move as all there fans live next door to the stadium and wouldn’t travel.

How many millions of people live within a 45min travel radius of Bankwest stadium?
Just more excuses from an apathetic RL fan.

You are very good at shooting the messenger and going ad hom about stuff, aren't you?

I'm playing devils advocate, trying to help you understand various reasons why things are the way they are. Labelling me apathetic or insulting me doesn't help your cause because this isn't about me.

I'm not doing this to supply reasons why I don't attend (being interstate is a fairly good one though) - when I lived in NSW I lived further away than 45 minutes (more than an hour actually) and I rarely missed a game. I'm simply trying to help others understand. Having lived in both Sydney and Melbourne I'm very confident accessing sporting events down here is easier. That's my point. And given the proximity, location and transport options of Adelaide and Perth's stadia, and how the clubs have centralised to them - it absolutely is easier for AFL fans to get to games than it is for NRL fans in Sydney. Taipan's already pointed out his difficulty, and a number of other factors.

You seem to continue to insist this is all an easily fixed issue with X and Y, when it's a much larger issue that requires a whole bunch of initiatives, and probably a lot of money too.

 

[taipan]

35mins travel to a game isnt a hardship when living in a major city. How many people live in a 35min travel radius of shark park?

as you said broncos show just having the facilities that are centrally accessible doesn’t guarantee a good population % of attendance. You need to work hard to get people to buy your product.

Optus stadium is a bus and train ride for most in perth (you can’t drive to it) taking anything from 30-60mins on public transport for the majority of fans to get to yet the the clubs playing there have no problem getting 40k plus to it out of a city of 2mill. It takes a number of factors to get people to live sport but if you don’t have the population catchment within a reasonable travel time your going to struggle whatever you do. One of the reasons your clubs membership and attendance is largely stagnant.

That's 35 minutes from a near suburb Sylvania to Lilli Lilli I used as an example.It's hardly a radius to the perimeters of the Shire not by a long shot.
I've also taken 45 minutes to get from Engadine to Caringbah.The Shire is not all within spitting distance.Today filled up at Taren Point took 15 minutes to get to not far away suburb Sth Caringbah.
Virtual neighbours.It all hinges on traffic conditions, tied in with scheduling. You don't know the Shire very well, guessing is not reality.
I attend local games usually rain hail or shine, because I can.

But you just contradicted yourself where I gave examples of big catchment areas ,not getting the crowds they should, and they are one team cities.So the catchment argument holds true for the likes of Newcastle, but doesn't hold true for Brisbane/GC/Melbourne,and even more so with Perth in a smaller city than Melbourne.
Then you admitted the Broncos should be doing better.I agree.This is a club the most profitable, with all the marketing nous ,and business support ,yet should be averaging close to 40k.

The Sharks are hardly solely responsible for the lack of growth in the NRL in the Sydney market.

You can argue what's the catchment area of NQLD huge, yet distance and scheduling to date can affect their crowds substantiallyTitans ask their fans the problem with GC traffic.
Whats the Roosters catchment area?
Seriously you can go through most clubs and not pick for negatives.And don't kid yourself Perth will have their share.Some of the junior leagues are less than he Eels,Panthers and Sharks.

if a club is averaging 12-13,000 in a Sydney NRL club ,others 15-17k and 19k in Melbourne it's hardly mind blowing differences.Especially as some of these clubs require substantial backing from Leagues clubs private input.
When I see clubs make efforts to grow their asset base, grow their junior league, have new Leagues clubs and not rely on poker machines as a big backstop, then I'll lead the cheer squad.Perth at least doesn't rely on pokies, but long term financial guarantees who knows.
You can go on about Sydney clubs, relocation ,who have their faults, but unless they look like going belly up, it "ain't going to happen.The NRL have repeatedly stated so.

How many games are played at Optus on a Friday night 6pm?Even comparing Sydney traffic conditions and topography/geography with Perth ,is chalk and cheese.Like comparing New York with Miami.

 

[franklin2323]

Mate , Scheduling plays a huge part for a start, and bear in mind the Sharks are hardly Robinson Crusoe attracting numbers of visitors.
Here are some examples of the biggest crowds at Shark Park.Leaving aside the Sharks V dragons games which always ensure big crowds, yet clowns want to merge these teams.Or do away with teh derby.
31/7/05 Sharks v Tigers 18,321
12/7/08 Sharks v Sea Eagles 18,217
3/7/11 Sharks v Rabbitohs 18,829
6/9/15 Sharks v Sea Eagles 19,146
2/7/16 Sharks v Eels 19,124
Now attending those games I remember decent numbers of Tigers fans,Rabbitohs fans and then Eels fans.But the overwhelming majority Sharks' fans.
As to the games against the Sea Eagles ,just a handful of their fans.
Plus the most recent was the Sharks v Raiders 1/9/19 played at 2pm Sunday.Decent numbers of Raiders but large numbers(being the biggest majority) of Sharks fans in attendance.

My point is scheduling plays a huge part in likely attendees, and there has been a noticeable drop off in visiting fans from other Sydney clubs.eg against Souths in 2011.
You are correct, there are uni students, students,shift workers, weekend workers ,part timers, working parents and of course the dreaded live coverage on Fox.Trying to schedule to please all of them is a task too far.

The economy has been tight also for a few years, wages barely risen, uncertainty,people not spending, car sales well down, stores closing.
I wish it were so simple.
That's not to excuse clubs from not offering incentives,2 for 3 adults, discount days, coupons for a free pie.Or the longer you are a member ,the bigger the discount in annual subs.

No doubt the tragics will travel for their team and attend, but even then I've seen absentees of members when there is a sh*thouse scheduled match at the home games.6pm a classic example.

You only have to drive around the Shire and see literally hundreds of cars/SUV/utes with Shark's numberplates and car stickers.There is support built up over 50+. years, evidenced by the 16 G/F

Was it 2-3 years ago when NRL said the aim was to ave 20k across games? Here we are still no closer and tbh I haven’t seen any club trying to

 

[Perth Red]

You are very good at shooting the messenger and going ad hom about stuff, aren't you?
.

there’s the pot calling the kettle lol

 

[Perth Red]

Was it 2-3 years ago when NRL said the aim was to ave 20k across games? Here we are still no closer and tbh I haven’t seen any club trying to

Smith realised as soon as he came in the need to grow crowds, not surprisingly little has been done since. The nrl sacrificed fan convenience for tv $’s with two of the eight fixtures a weekend but instead of then investing some of that money to help counter balance the poor fixture times they just gave it all to clubs. All we have ever heard is new stadiums will sort the problem out, only issue is it will only help a few clubs.

 

[taipan]

Was it 2-3 years ago when NRL said the aim was to ave 20k across games? Here we are still no closer and tbh I haven’t seen any club trying to

Yep and they have a responsibility in addition to the clubs.Clubs who have improved facilities or are trying to do so are making an effort.

 

[franklin2323]

Smith realised as soon as he came in the need to grow crowds, not surprisingly little has been done since. The nrl sacrificed fan convenience for tv $’s with two of the eight fixtures a weekend but instead of then investing some of that money to help counter balance the poor fixture times they just gave it all to clubs. All we have ever heard is new stadiums will sort the problem out, only issue is it will only help a few clubs.

Penrith 2 games at Bankwest crowds were no better then the old venues

 

[franklin2323]

Yep and they have a responsibility in addition to the clubs.Clubs who have improved facilities or are trying to do so are making an effort.

So what have the Sharks done to get fans to come to the new home ground for this season? Prices look the same. No move in numbers so far

 

[taipan]

Smith realised as soon as he came in the need to grow crowds, not surprisingly little has been done since. The nrl sacrificed fan convenience for tv $’s with two of the eight fixtures a weekend but instead of then investing some of that money to help counter balance the poor fixture times they just gave it all to clubs. All we have ever heard is new stadiums will sort the problem out, only issue is it will only help a few clubs.

Smith at times made statements let us say, were well meaning, but he did not know rugby league as rugby league people know rugby league.
It would be akin to Gallop making predictions or proposals in rugby union, if he were CeO.

 

[Perth Red]

Yep and they have a responsibility in addition to the clubs.Clubs who have improved facilities or are trying to do so are making an effort.

well they did give them $3mill a year extra, I guess they foolishly thought the clubs would use some of it to build their customer base?