2020 season

[TheFrog]

You'd be wrong.

How would you know?

 

[OldPanther]

How would you know?

Because that year is 1 anomaly out of the last 6.

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Occam's razor is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the least speculation is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation.

 

[BxTom]

That's the point. Rosters change constantly. What's different here?

The changes that you discuss are normal roster 'updates (for want of a better term) that have nothing to do with a new coach appointment. And it is not wholesale changes mid contract with us paying freight. It can also be argued that in several cases we have gone backwards in quality/experience.

 

[TheFrog]

Because that year is 1 anomaly out of the last 6.

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Occam's razor is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the least speculation is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation.

So what you are saying here, is if Coach A makes the finals once in five attempts, replacing Coach B who made the finals three times in three attempts, and given that making the finals is a goal (if not the ultimate one), then it was a poor decision to replace coach B with coach A?

 

[OldPanther]

So what you are saying here, is if Coach A makes the finals once in five attempts, replacing Coach B who made the finals three times in three attempts, and given that making the finals is a goal (if not the ultimate one), then it was a poor decision to replace coach B with coach A?

I'm saying 2015 was bad due to injuries. You've added the rest.

 

[Kilkenny]

I am not adverse to the whole re-inventing the roster thing if Ivan Cleary and Matt Cameron actually have a plan.

I would expect if you are going to release established first graders in DWZ, Blake, and perhaps RCG, Hetherington, Whare and others then surely it is reasonable to expect they have identified players to bring in to replace them. Be they established NRL players or promising youngsters / juniors.

Part of the strategy I assume is to address salary cap pressure but that would have been sorted by allowing DWZ and Blake to leave mid season.

It will be an interesting off season coming up to see exactly what the ‘plan’ was or ‘is’.

 

[OldPanther]

I am not adverse to the whole re-inventing the roster thing if Ivan Cleary and Matt Cameron actually have a plan.

I would expect if you are going to release established first graders in DWZ, Blake, and perhaps RCG, Hetherington, Whare and others then surely it is reasonable to expect they have identified players to bring in to replace them. Be they established NRL players or promising youngsters / juniors.

Part of the strategy I assume is to address salary cap pressure but that would have been sorted by allowing DWZ and Blake to leave mid season.

It will be an interesting off season coming up to see exactly what the ‘plan’ was or ‘is’.

100%

 

[Kilkenny]

It is amazing to have the depth to use 52 players this season in CC but at the same time other than a handful of obvious young talent there wasn’t a lot on show today to suggest there were many NRL players on display. Particularly in the forwards. Burns has potential but has a way to go IMO. Staines certainly. I really think Kaide Ellis has a future but not too many others do including Ivan it would appear.

Forgetting about who is NRL quality or not I thought MWZ was decent, Fuimaono had a good game, Burton obviously, Winterstein can only play 15 minutes in NRL but he seemed to play most of the game today and probably our best forward was Patrick Hollis who has been around for ever.

 

[Kilkenny]

I think going forward into 2020 my biggest concern is we invested most heavily in Nathan Cleary as the man to lead us into our next premiership and despite being a SOO player there are still doubts about his ability as a playmaker.

Given the power’s that be have brought in his father as head coach for five years it is a major concern because regardless of what Nathan brings to the side or otherwise he will be half back for entirety of the time his father remains head coach. No chance Nathan is ever going to be shopped around if we continue to underperform or Nathan goes backwards.

Gus signed Nathan to his long term reasonably big money contract but with another coach other than Ivan at least we had a back stop if Nathan didn’t work out and that coach could have been prepared to make a big decision such as move Nathan positionally or move him on all together.

Ain’t ever going to happen with his dad as head coach and we have them both for the next four years whether it works out or not.

For the record I still think Nathan Cleary will improve and will be a better player leading the side without the influence of James Maloney. At the same time even with improvement we will be relying upon improving in other areas to truly develop into a top four or better side.

 

[OldPanther]

I think going forward into 2020 my biggest concern is we invested most heavily in Nathan Cleary as the man to lead us into our next premiership and despite being a SOO player there are still doubts about his ability as a playmaker.

Given the power’s that be have brought in his father as head coach for five years it is a major concern because regardless of what Nathan brings to the side or otherwise he will be half back for entirety of the time his father remains head coach. No chance Nathan is ever going to be shopped around if we continue to underperform or Nathan goes backwards.

Gus signed Nathan to his long term reasonably big money contract but with another coach other than Ivan at least we had a back stop if Nathan didn’t work out and that coach could have been prepared to make a big decision such as move Nathan positionally or move him on all together.

Ain’t ever going to happen with his dad as head coach and we have them both for the next four years whether it works out or not.

For the record I still think Nathan Cleary will improve and will be a better player leading the side without the influence of James Maloney. At the same time even with improvement we will be relying upon improving in other areas to truly develop into a top four or better side.

I like that Nathan is our halfback but how much accountability will he have now? No risk of being dropped for a week or 2 of bad form or a good old fashioned spray.

 

[BxTom]

I am not adverse to the whole re-inventing the roster thing if Ivan Cleary and Matt Cameron actually have a plan.

I would expect if you are going to release established first graders in DWZ, Blake, and perhaps RCG, Hetherington, Whare and others then surely it is reasonable to expect they have identified players to bring in to replace them. Be they established NRL players or promising youngsters / juniors.

Part of the strategy I assume is to address salary cap pressure but that would have been sorted by allowing DWZ and Blake to leave mid season.

It will be an interesting off season coming up to see exactly what the ‘plan’ was or ‘is’.

Or was/is not.

 

[Abacus]

2020 spine:

1. Burton
6. Luai
7. Cleary
9. Egan or buy someone

Not trying to insult Edwards but Burton would be our version of Ponga.

Nup, Edwards at 1. Fullback is 1 of the tougher positions to "ease into" NRL. Also guaranteed to get whacked a fair bit on kick returns. What's he like under high balls? What decisions to Edwards, Staines and Laurie make about their longer term at the club?

We have a need for a centre. At centre, Burton can still ballplay, kick when needed and, most importantly, get used to defending in the front line. If he later moves to 5/8, then his defending 1 further in and doew more ballplaying and kicking.

 

[OldPanther]

Nup, Edwards at 1. Fullback is 1 of the tougher positions to "ease into" NRL. Also guaranteed to get whacked a fair bit on kick returns. What's he like under high balls? What decisions to Edwards, Staines and Laurie make about their longer term at the club?

We have a need for a centre. At centre, Burton can still ballplay, kick when needed and, most importantly, get used to defending in the front line. If he later moves to 5/8, then his defending 1 further in and doew more ballplaying and kicking.

Pass to the winger on an overlap isn't playmaking though it's more than we get now so maybe it is a good thing.

People saying put him at centre are also betting on him being the 6 long term over Luai. Is that guaranteed though?

 

[Dave's mate]

Pass to the winger on an overlap isn't playmaking though it's more than we get now so maybe it is a good thing.

People saying put him at centre are also betting on him being the 6 long term over Luai. Is that guaranteed though?

Like ive already said go watch some old Jamie Lyon footage. A centre can be a massive part of playmaking and yes im 100% backing him over Luai

 

[OldPanther]

Like ive already said go watch some old Jamie Lyon footage. A centre can be a massive part of playmaking and yes im 100% backing him over Luai

I'm not saying it can't be done at all and if it's used to develop him into the 6 I'm fine with that. I'm just talking from the perspective of him and Luai in the same team.

 

[franklin2323]

I am not adverse to the whole re-inventing the roster thing if Ivan Cleary and Matt Cameron actually have a plan.

I would expect if you are going to release established first graders in DWZ, Blake, and perhaps RCG, Hetherington, Whare and others then surely it is reasonable to expect they have identified players to bring in to replace them. Be they established NRL players or promising youngsters / juniors.

Part of the strategy I assume is to address salary cap pressure but that would have been sorted by allowing DWZ and Blake to leave mid season.

It will be an interesting off season coming up to see exactly what the ‘plan’ was or ‘is’.

This why I haven't commented on if it was good to get rid of these guys yet

 

[Pomoz]

Like ive already said go watch some old Jamie Lyon footage. A centre can be a massive part of playmaking and yes im 100% backing him over Luai

He can look closer to home. Girds was also a good playmaker in the centres. He could play 5/8th.

 

[Fangs]

He can look closer to home. Girds was also a good playmaker in the centres. He could play 5/8th.

Its forgotten by most. But he was our starting 6 in 2003. If he didn't hurt his shoulder in the first round then who knows when Preston Campbell would have featured there. Rest is history.

Girds was also excellent kicking off his left foot. Damn talented player.

 

[Buzzard Breath]

There is talk around town that Josh Mansour’s days as a winger are numbered. An off-season move to the back row could be on the cards as the coaching staff look to maximise his contribution to the team. It’s no secret that Mansour has struggled on the wing this season and his low try scoring tally is a real concern for coach Ivan Cleary. Mansour is on good money and the club wants to get the best return for their investment.
Anyone who thinks the idea is crazy need only look at 1996 when Matt Adamson made the successful move from fullback to second-rower. Stranger things have happened.

https://westernweekender.com.au/2019/08/masked-panther-mansour-set-for-shock-switch/

 

[Dave's mate]

There is talk around town that Josh Mansour’s days as a winger are numbered. An off-season move to the back row could be on the cards as the coaching staff look to maximise his contribution to the team. It’s no secret that Mansour has struggled on the wing this season and his low try scoring tally is a real concern for coach Ivan Cleary. Mansour is on good money and the club wants to get the best return for their investment.
Anyone who thinks the idea is crazy need only look at 1996 when Matt Adamson made the successful move from fullback to second-rower. Stranger things have happened.

https://westernweekender.com.au/2019/08/masked-panther-mansour-set-for-shock-switch/

Issue is we are stacked in the backrow. Worth a try for Sauce but probably not at Penrith