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The Game 2021 Judiciary Charges

How many weeks for Mitchell

  • 2

    Votes: 1 3.3%
  • 3

    Votes: 2 6.7%
  • 4+

    Votes: 27 90.0%

  • Total voters
    30

lockyno1

Post Whore
Messages
53,348
Yep, it was all planned, had to get that superstar out of the game. The injury isn't relevant, if you break ribs with your shoulder should you get charged?

He has left him with broken ribs and a punctured lung and put him out of the game. It’s a send off offence was reckless at best
 

Delboy

First Grade
Messages
7,545
Doesn't matter he hit him in the head - falling or not - same as if the arm bounces of the shoulder and hits the players head - you can't do this anymore as any contact with a players head will be penalised -Taukeiaho was fined for a high tackle - arm bouncing of the shoulder and hitting the players head not for a lifting tackle.

Niukore was placed on report with this and all games reviewed by the MRC who then decide on the charges and gradings - naught to do with the media
You are kidding, the onslaught from the Roosters friendly media tarts on the radio and tv, coupled with Robbo’s clever and intentional remarks ensured that the MRC came down hard.

Tedesco even commented there was nothing in it, and he was lowering himself as he does to get below tackles and make ground. Takehaho picked up and dropped a player on his news, by your thinking that could have been a broken neck, but a Roosters player gets a fine. Not arguing with Brown, although I don’t believe it was intentional, just done at 100 mph in a very quick game. If you believe some clubs don’t get treated differently, then you are in for a shock.

With tongue in cheek, there is a saying that NRL stands for National Roosters League, perhaps explain why after ensuring the play the balls were slow and copping 6 again numerous times in the first half ,no one from the media darlings were in the bin.

Anyway, it’s all done now and the Roosters will have to cope with fielding only 8 Origin and Intl players next week, by the way the Roosters forwards were terrific last night.
 

SDM

First Grade
Messages
7,600
It was extremely reckless and Hutchinson was already essentially in the in goal

What was Brown trying to do ?

I'm not trying to absolve him, he f**ked up, just questioning if media sentiment and the injury has influenced the grading.
 

SDM

First Grade
Messages
7,600
Knees ain't shoulders though and there was no need to do what he did as Hutchinson was over the try line - should be a longer suspension for sure as i have seen him do this a number of times so not a one off

Im not comparing knees to shoulders, it was an illegal action, just trying to point out that injury doesn't have to equal suspension.
If he knees him in the back and it hits on a slightly different angle and there is no significant injury, should he get no charge? I say no, he should get the same.
 

SDM

First Grade
Messages
7,600
Also worth noting that Delboy and Locky are equally geniused on opposite ends of the spectrum, not worth replying to.
 
Messages
15,479
The following articfe was published yesterday by the Sydney Morning Herald (source: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/in...en-agree-with-each-other-20210506-p57ph9.html) -

Inside the NRL’s match review committee and why they don’t even agree with each other
By Adam Pengilly

May 7, 2021

It’s only an hour after daybreak and four old footballers are poring over a video which has been circulating in their WhatsApp group.

They’ve watched the clips over and over again, looking at bodies and limbs contorting in every direction, working out where the contact is, the force involved, and then finally deciding if the video is enough for the player to be in trouble.

But let’s not scare the integrity unit.

This is the inner workings of the NRL’s match review committee, a favourite punching bag of angry coaches, confused players and irate fans.

What they hell were they watching? How on earth did Latrell Mitchell get four weeks for that? Where did they pluck this hip drop tackle from? Did Josh Curran really get charged for a head clash? How soft do they want the game to become? Don’t they know he’s got a State of Origin game to play next week!

Last weekend the Herald was given exclusive access to the NRL’s match review process, from watching matches in real time to debating the merits of dozens of incidents arising from eight games.

Four mornings a week match review committee chair Michael Robertson, the former Canberra and Manly winger who scored a grand final hat-trick and has a busy day job as the chief executive of an apparel company, speaks to fellow panel members Michael Hodgson, Luke Patten and Anthony Quinn over Webex.

It’s usually at a time when footballers of yesteryear would be stumbling home after a night at Northies.

But these guys risk popularity in their own households as they delay breakfast with their families to help keep the game clean.

You might not agree with them. Most have had scratched their head and thought, ‘how did they arrive at that?’ But watching how the MRC work gives a clear insight into how thorough their process is – and that they don’t always agree with each other.

By the time the quartet have logged on this morning, they’ve requested multiple medical reports from clubs about potential injuries to players. If they find there’s enough to sustain a charge against a player, then the medical report will come into play with regard to grading.

Each member is assigned to a game and flags incidents in the next day’s review, seeking opinions of his fellow reviewers. There’s debate, and plenty of it. They can instantly recall similar tackles to ones they’re assessing, and within seconds can watch incidents from previous years to help guide them.

The problem for the match review committee is also rugby league’s greatest strength: tribalism. If you’re a Tigers fan, it’s hard to look at the match review committee through anything other than a Tigers lens and so on.

When the Herald sat in on the review, the panel is interrogating a tackle from a match on Saturday night.

One panel member can’t see enough to lay a dangerous contact charge.

“I don’t see [player] doing a helluva lot wrong here,” he says. “I don’t see him putting him in a dangerous position. He’s making a genuine attempt at a tackle. I just think this is OK. I don’t see a lot wrong with this.”

It’s quickly countered, while the replays keep rolling.

“He made forceful contact with a player in a vulnerable position,” says another. “We can’t use an injury to make it a charge, but if we deem his actions careless we can consider the injury. I’ve got this as a charge.”

Adds the next panel member: “Applying the code, I think we can support a grade one charge. The more we talk through it the more confident I am it ticks all the boxes to sustain a charge.”

But it doesn’t end there.

“I just don’t see enough for it to be a charge. I’m still below a charge, but I take everyone’s points on board.”

The panel often debate through differing views, says Robertson.

“That happens often,” he says . “There is difference in opinions a lot of the time.”

In just under an hour, the panel has wrapped up the matches from the previous night. The player is charged.

Hodgson started on the match review committee more than seven years ago. He would sit down in his lounge room with his Foxtel remote and would see what everyone else did. He would pause, rewind, play, stop, stare, over and over again, but he was always at the mercy of the TV match director.

One of the first games he was rostered to review was an early season match in Melbourne on a Monday night. Newcastle’s rangy red-headed back-rower, Alex McKinnon, carted the ball into the Storm defence before being lifted in a tackle.

Later, McKinnon would be diagnosed a quadriplegic.

Hodgson had to watch the tackle many times to help the panel decide how it should be handled. The matter was referred straight to the NRL judiciary, where Jordan McLean was found guilty of a grade two dangerous throw. He was suspended for seven matches, after McKinnon’s life-changing injury was taken into account.

Back in those days, the panel would make a phone call to Fox Sports on a Monday morning and ask for any extra angles to help them decide on a controversial incident. The tapes would be swiftly couriered across the Harbour Bridge.

(TBC)....
 
Messages
15,479
Part 2 of the article from the Sydney Morning Herald (source: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/in...en-agree-with-each-other-20210506-p57ph9.html) -

Part 2

On a cool autumn night in 2021, Hodgson is now sitting in the NRL’s modern day central command centre in inner-city Eveleigh.

Todd Greenberg’s facility was derided in its early days because it cost $2 million and punters still thought it stuffed up more than it should, but nothing which happens on an NRL field these days escapes Big Brother in the Bunker.

It’s not only used for on-field rulings and to spot potential in-game concussions, but it also has space for match review officials to “tag” potential foul play in a little room which misses nothing.

Hodgson’s old Foxtel remote is replaced by a can of Red Bull (no doubt to help him on the late night drive home to Newcastle), and he has so many controls it’s hard to know which one does what. Instead of relying on the broadcaster to show him what he needs to see, these days he has 11 different camera angles to scrutinise every raised knee, hair pull, swinging arm, grapple tackle, hip drop, shoulder charge or whatever the latest fad is.

There are 17 different pieces of white paper stuck on the wall to his left, each with a detailed breakdown of what constitutes a charge under the NRL’s judiciary code. Hodgson barely looks at them because he’s done this so many times before. He’s talking through the different grips and tackling techniques which he’s mastered identifying.

Having watched the match, it’s easy to assume he might as well put the feet up. There is little spite in the game, and certainly nothing which will keep sports editors grinning about back page fodder for days.

But by the time 15 minutes has elapsed, Hodgson has already found four incidents he’s marked in a central log.

For each one, he stops his feed, rewinds it and watches it numerous times from all manner of angles before the incident is cut up by an assistant and sent to the other members of the match review panel almost instantaneously.

Is it usual for so many tackles and collisions to be under the microscope each game?

“We might usually tag anywhere between 16 to 20 incidents in a game,” Hodgson says. “I’ve got to be honest, some things look quite innocuous sometimes. You speak to people and they say, ‘well, what was in that?‘

“And you wouldn’t say we do this for job satisfaction. For us, it’s governance of the game and player welfare and safety. That makes me want to do it. We can be perceived differently, and I understand that. To follow these trends in terms of wrestling and issuing concerning acts that can potentially stop an injury, I find that really rewarding.”

By the end of the game, Hodgson has identified 15 different incidents to be sent to his fellow MRC members.

The next morning they issue only one charge from the match.

‘Why aren’t the match review committee accountable?’
The day after Mitchell was slugged with a four-game ban for a stray arm which collected Tigers winger David Nofoaluma in the head, his South Sydney coach Wayne Bennett went nuclear.

Mitchell was charged three times from the one match, including for an innocuous looking slide into Luke Garner after he scored a try. Before Mitchell fronted the judiciary, the Rabbitohs had been quietly peddling images of other incidents out of the weekend which they thought were worse than the Garner collision.

They might have had a point.

But Bennett was furious the Nofoaluma contact cost him his most mercurial player for a month, and thundered to the Herald: “We’re all accountable. I’m accountable. Players are accountable. Referees are. Why aren’t the match review committee?”

It was only the start of the caning.

Phil Gould claimed he was an astronaut if Mitchell deserved that suspension. The public stoning finished with the Perry Mason for NRL clubs, Nick Ghabar, calling for sweeping changes to the judiciary process.

The NRL had had enough.

Head of football Graham Annesley used more than half-an-hour of his weekly football briefing to launch into a spirited defence of the integrity and credentials of the match review committee members and judiciary panel.

He gave the impression it was hard to convince them to do a job that was about to become easy to walk away from.

“It’s not a job for everybody,” Annesley now says. “A lot of former players, once they’ve finished their on-field career, they don’t want to be in a position where they’re making decisions that adversely affect their former colleagues.

“One of the problems we have is the perception of the whole judicial process, from match review right through to hearing, is that there’s not a lot of understanding of the amount of detail which goes into reviewing matches, preparing charges and cases that might go to the judiciary.

“But this is not a tick-and-flick exercise. There is a lot of time and effort that goes into it. These guys are trying to be as consistent as possible and nothing escapes their attention.”

But should it only be former players who sit in judgment of their peers, rather than a wider cross section of representatives?

“The environment is constantly changing,” Annesley says. “There’s new coaching methodologies that come into play that these guys have got to be aware of. That’s the whole logic behind using former players because they’ve been there.”

Mitchell is only spending four weeks on the sidelines because of his poor record and the fact he fought the charge at the judiciary and lost, adding another week to what is usually a two-game charge. Whether he should have been charged at all for that incident, few will agree on.

What is clear is the NRL won’t tolerate any form of contact with the head or neck, and its match review committee treat the judiciary code like The Bible.

Asked about the Mitchell decision, Robertson says: “There was a long discussion in that one. I don’t take [the criticism] personally. I would like it if people went into the code, read it and understand what our decisions are based on. They’re the rules we stick to.

“I’ve told all the coaches and football managers there’s an open line if they’ve got any issues. Some take me up on it, and some don’t. They don’t necessarily agree with how we come to our decisions, but I’ll explain how we did.

“But this is not just four blokes jumping on the phone and saying,‘what do you reckon? Grade one?’ Then just move onto the next one. We don’t just pluck these charges out of the air.

“I would rather no one get suspended, but I’d much prefer a safer working environment be created so we don’t have an injury from foul play.”
 

Apey

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,273
The people who were complaining about the Mitchell charge are also insane so it's a weird example to use in that article. It's just because he's popular and people want to see him play. In reality he was lucky he didn't get binned/sent.
 

blaza88z

Coach
Messages
15,186
The fact old mate suffered a suspected punctured lung (as reported last night) definitely motivated them to put Dylan Brown on report

It's like the week before, Corey Oates gets clocked in the back of the head as he tries to get up after scoring a try, any sort of head injury and the bloke who got him is gone for weeks, it's a joke
 

no name

Referee
Messages
20,123
MRC will spend hours reviewing mundane incidents after the refs/bunker decided that anything near a penalty should be a reportable offence. All because they missed an absolute howler last night.
 

Sphagnum

Coach
Messages
13,072
Browns one was bad, regardless of the nature of the injury you can’t just slide across a blokes back with your knees. Niukore should fight. His right arm was wrapping but Tedesco fell over after he passed it. Not much he could do and the contact was incidental in the end.
 
Messages
8,480
Think it was more clumsy than intentional

Agreed. There is rarely anything that’s “intentional” about fouls in the modern game. The only one imo this year that was clearly intentional was the rooster (can’t recall his name) who punched Jai Arrow in the back of the head. It didn’t do much damage but the act was intentional and just poor..

The vast majority of fouls are simply tackles gone wrong, a split second where an arm/elbow/shoulder ends up in the wrong spot..

The thing different about browns incident is that, while not intentional, Brown had a conscious decision in deciding to lead with his knees into Hutchison. Why? Who knows but he stuffed up and Hutchison copped an awful injury as a result.

I initially thought 6 weeks would be appropriate, watching the game live. 4 does seem appropriate to me after the dust settled. Happy to admit that.

A hit to the head can cause big damage, but the overwhelming majority of incidents of head contact are purely accidental in a split second as players are running into each other. And have little/no effect on the ball-carrier..

Knees into a player imo are a conscious decision to head into contact with the opponent...not intentional necessarily but always just dumb. They are much rarer than head contact but Friday shows that when it happens, the danger to a ball carrier can be severe.

I can’t see the Eels contesting it so looks like 3 games out if I’m not mistaken.
 
Messages
8,480
...Brown made a conscious decision...
So, intentional then?

No, but understand the query...

To (try and) explain myself better...

Intentional to me is the intent to harm, injure, and/or “foul” the opponent... which I don’t believe the case here..

Here, rather than a split-second decision of tackling an opponent running at you, a “reflex” action etc.... In the Brown scenario, Hutchison was clearly out of reach (would “score”) with Brown in pursuit... and had a conscious decision (ie more time) in how to take the action he did....

He could have pulled out in any number of ways. He didn’t and we all saw the end result..

So - my interpretation of “Intentional” is a deliberate act to illegally hurt, injure an opponent. For brown, I don’t think this was the case but he could/should have easily avoided the scenario...

Like running a red light... whether you see the amber/red light and drive through regardless, or you aren’t paying attention and run the red... the intention differs but the end result either way can be catastrophic - the onus is with the driver and there are no excuses for it..
 

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