2023 Origin I - Wed 31 May - NSW 18-26 QLD @ Adelaide

[Fangs]

Who gives a shit about the media, do what's best for the team.

I honestly think keeping Tedesco is best for the team. The off-field scrutiny would be through the roof and I don't think we would handle it well at all.

Its a good decision for game 3 if we lose the series in Queensland. Pressure valve will be released.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Teddy staying out of the way is going to be our biggest obstacle.

May 22 - Baldstrodamus!

 

[Captain Apollo]

Assistant coach doesn’t mean anything

flnaghan was assistant at the dragons and they were still bad and the guy can coach

either way Freddy is goneski

playing haas for 31 minutes is the height of stupidity

31 minutes? Don't know where you got that from. NRL's website showing Haas played 51 minutes in total. Pagni Jr played 27 minutes, Paulo 30 minutes along with Hudson Young. I think you might be confused on that point.

Source: https://www.nrl.com/draw/state-of-origin/2023/game-1/maroons-v-blues/

 

[Pumpkin]

There's no need to panic. It was only 26-18. NSW had 2 tries held up by a finger tip and the Frizell one may have been a try. Unfortunately there wasn't sufficient evidence to overturn the live decision.

Replacing Tedesco with Edwards would be idiotic. That would be his first match at Suncorp stadium with NSW down 1-0.

Qld were on the back foot with NSW camped on their try line for much of the match. NSW should win the series if that continues. Qld can't keep getting lucky with fingertips under the ball and lucky long range tries.

NSW need to capitalise on the pressure they built on the qld line. For that purpose you need a talented ball player. Cody Walker didn't seem to want to play for NSW in the one game he had, so I'm ruling him out. Nicho Hynes is the man for the job. He needs to replace Luai.

 

[SBD82]

May 22 - Baldstrodamus!

‘member when people said we were crazy for suggesting that Teddy would stifle the attack?

SBD ‘members.

 

[Saxon]

New South WAILS.

What a fun day it's been listening to talkback radio in Sydney. One loss and Blues fans start eating their own.

 

[Chimp]

A telling moment for me was post-game interview with Fitler. He was asked why the attack looked clunky, and his response was along the lines of 'I don't know, need to look at it to see what caused it and if there was anything their defence was doing to cause it'.
For me, that shows Freddie ain't a coach - he should have been able to identify mid-game if there was a QLD defensive tactic causing a breakdown, and implement plan B or C, but clearly there was only a plan A, and no consideration on what to do if that isn't working. A coaching team needs to be agile enough to make changes on the run.
I'd also say your 6 and 7 should also be able to identify it and make changes on the run. Shows a lack of natural game management talent - Luai and Cleary are structure players. Take a look at Munster and DCE, they can see what's happening in front of then and adapt.

 

[westerntiger]

He coached the roosters lol

I actually totally forgot about that.

 

[Someone2]

JAC didn’t deserve to be in the team and shouldn’t be there in game 2

the only reason he got picked was because of the way the media carried on last year when he was left out

 

[ColdWetPanther]

A telling moment for me was post-game interview with Fitler. He was asked why the attack looked clunky, and his response was along the lines of 'I don't know, need to look at it to see what caused it and if there was anything their defence was doing to cause it'.
For me, that shows Freddie ain't a coach - he should have been able to identify mid-game if there was a QLD defensive tactic causing a breakdown, and implement plan B or C, but clearly there was only a plan A, and no consideration on what to do if that isn't working. A coaching team needs to be agile enough to make changes on the run.
I'd also say your 6 and 7 should also be able to identify it and make changes on the run. Shows a lack of natural game management talent - Luai and Cleary are structure players. Take a look at Munster and DCE, they can see what's happening in front of then and adapt.

Its interesting but I think with 10mins to go the Penrith halves would have been feeling very comfortable (as a Panther fan I know I was); they had got their team to 18 points and were dominating field position. The whole game we had dominated field position which for the Panther halves that is the key KPI for winning games.

I’m not saying they couldn’t improve. The most disappointing aspect for the Penrith halves last night will have been their missed tackles in the lead up to the Cobbo and Hammer (last) tries. I also do think that they could be more adventurous in Cleary’s short kicking game around the line (the ‘22 finals series shows he has a great short kicking game which he can bring out in big, tight games) and seeing Luai swing to the right (which is going to be even more important in the second game if we, as we should, select Teddy again for Brisbane).

But the Panthers are a team built on strangulation rather than brilliance. If we want a game when one team scores 30 and the other one score 32 and it is a role of the dice who wins, then a Hynes/Walker halves pairing is the way to go. But if you want to dominate field position and tilt the odds in your favour, then Cleary and Luai is the obvious (yet maybe slightly frustrating) choice.

 

[sharkie23]

Listening to Brandy on 360, he has no idea.

 

[Woody90]

A telling moment for me was post-game interview with Fitler. He was asked why the attack looked clunky, and his response was along the lines of 'I don't know, need to look at it to see what caused it and if there was anything their defence was doing to cause it'.
For me, that shows Freddie ain't a coach - he should have been able to identify mid-game if there was a QLD defensive tactic causing a breakdown, and implement plan B or C, but clearly there was only a plan A, and no consideration on what to do if that isn't working. A coaching team needs to be agile enough to make changes on the run.
I'd also say your 6 and 7 should also be able to identify it and make changes on the run. Shows a lack of natural game management talent - Luai and Cleary are structure players. Take a look at Munster and DCE, they can see what's happening in front of then and adapt.

And on the flip side it also highlights what a good coach Ivan Cleary is to be able to create structures that allow players like Cleary and Luai to thrive. Good coaches create a system that suits the players.

I sometimes wonder if a player like Cleary would have gone on to be considered the generational talent he widely is if he had come through at say the Tigers for example instead. I’m not sure he would have the natural game management and vision to thrive in a team without the structure he has at Penrith to perform. It really highlights how lucky or unlucky a young player can be depending on the team they come into and whether the structure suits their game. There are some players though obviously (Munster is a good example) that can adapt to any environment.

Bellamy is another one that is able to create a system that allows all of his players to know their role within their system and suddenly become a world beater regardless of their natural ability.

I’m not saying Cleary isn’t a great player either. It takes a different type of skill do your role within a system, and not all players can do that. Those type of players don’t tend to thrive at Origin though.

I feel like Cleary is going to be remembered in the same vain as Cooper Cronk rather than say Joey, Thurston, Lewis, etc. Before the Penrith fans come at me, that’s not a criticism either, as players like Cronk are just as valuable for their club team. They’re just different.

 

[Chins get the wins]

And on the flip side it also highlights what a good coach Ivan Cleary is to be able to create structures that allow players like Cleary and Luai to thrive. Good coaches create a system that suits the players.

I sometimes wonder if a player like Cleary would have gone on to be considered the generational talent he widely is if he had come through at say the Tigers for example instead. I’m not sure he would have the natural game management and vision to thrive in a team without the structure he has at Penrith to perform. It really highlights how lucky or unlucky a young player can be depending on the team they come into and whether the structure suits their game. There are some players though obviously (Munster is a good example) that can adapt to any environment.

Bellamy is another one that is able to create a system that allows all of his players to know their role within their system and suddenly become a world beater regardless of their natural ability.

I’m not saying Cleary isn’t a great player either. It takes a different type of skill do your role within a system, and not all players can do that. Those type of players don’t tend to thrive at Origin though.

I feel like Cleary is going to be remembered in the same vain as Cooper Cronk rather than say Joey, Thurston, Lewis, etc. Before the Penrith fans come at me, that’s not a criticism either, as players like Cronk are just as valuable for their club team. They’re just different.

Cleary is a better Cronk. That's a perfect example

 

[Pumpkin]

I'm just glad I'm not a Qld supporter. I'd be panicking after that performance.

Imagine having a game plan where the opposition is camped on your line for much of the match and they have most of the possession. How you going to stop tries? Oh, we'll just put a couple of fingers under the ball everytime they cross over. Then what? Oh well, we will be behind on the scoreboard with ten minutes to go, but don't worry, we'll score a freaky long range try and have a foreward out leap the best fullback in the game.

Doesn't sound like a winning formula to me. Qld are in a lotta lotta trouble unless they can fix their game.

 

[soc123_au]

I'm just glad I'm not a Qld supporter. I'd be panicking after that performance.

Imagine having a game plan where the opposition is camped on your line for much of the match and they have most of the possession. How you going to stop tries? Oh, we'll just put a couple of fingers under the ball everytime they cross over. Then what? Oh well, we will be behind on the scoreboard with ten minutes to go, but don't worry, we'll score a freaky long range try and have a foreward out leap the best fullback in the game.

Doesn't sound like a winning formula to me. Qld are in a lotta lotta trouble unless they can fix their game.

You can make an argument he isn't even the best fullback in his team anymore.

 

[SLRBRONCOS]

I'm just glad I'm not a Qld supporter.

I'm really glad that you aren't too

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

I actually totally forgot about that.

We didn’t

 

[Canard]

I'm just glad I'm not a Qld supporter. I'd be panicking after that performance.

Imagine having a game plan where the opposition is camped on your line for much of the match and they have most of the possession. How you going to stop tries? Oh, we'll just put a couple of fingers under the ball everytime they cross over. Then what? Oh well, we will be behind on the scoreboard with ten minutes to go, but don't worry, we'll score a freaky long range try and have a foreward out leap the best fullback in the game.

Doesn't sound like a winning formula to me. Qld are in a lotta lotta trouble unless they can fix their game.

Oh yeah, all of Queensland is shitting themselves.

 

[Billythekid]

Its interesting but I think with 10mins to go the Penrith halves would have been feeling very comfortable (as a Panther fan I know I was); they had got their team to 18 points and were dominating field position. The whole game we had dominated field position which for the Panther halves that is the key KPI for winning games.

I’m not saying they couldn’t improve. The most disappointing aspect for the Penrith halves last night will have been their missed tackles in the lead up to the Cobbo and Hammer (last) tries. I also do think that they could be more adventurous in Cleary’s short kicking game around the line (the ‘22 finals series shows he has a great short kicking game which he can bring out in big, tight games) and seeing Luai swing to the right (which is going to be even more important in the second game if we, as we should, select Teddy again for Brisbane).

But the Panthers are a team built on strangulation rather than brilliance. If we want a game when one team scores 30 and the other one score 32 and it is a role of the dice who wins, then a Hynes/Walker halves pairing is the way to go. But if you want to dominate field position and tilt the odds in your favour, then Cleary and Luai is the obvious (yet maybe slightly frustrating) choice.

This is yet another typical example of Cleary and Luai getting credit for the work of others. Cleary controls the game well and has a good kicking game but the reason Penrith are able to strangle teams out so well is in large part because of their forward pack. Have a look at how dominant they have been in the metres gained this year.

Giving the halves the credit for that (especially Luai) is bullshit IMO.

Also Hynes is hardly some defensive liability that will suddenly cause NSW to start leaking points, that’s just nonsense.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Its interesting but I think with 10mins to go the Penrith halves would have been feeling very comfortable (as a Panther fan I know I was); they had got their team to 18 points and were dominating field position. The whole game we had dominated field position which for the Panther halves that is the key KPI for winning games.

I’m not saying they couldn’t improve. The most disappointing aspect for the Penrith halves last night will have been their missed tackles in the lead up to the Cobbo and Hammer (last) tries. I also do think that they could be more adventurous in Cleary’s short kicking game around the line (the ‘22 finals series shows he has a great short kicking game which he can bring out in big, tight games) and seeing Luai swing to the right (which is going to be even more important in the second game if we, as we should, select Teddy again for Brisbane).

But the Panthers are a team built on strangulation rather than brilliance. If we want a game when one team scores 30 and the other one score 32 and it is a role of the dice who wins, then a Hynes/Walker halves pairing is the way to go. But if you want to dominate field position and tilt the odds in your favour, then Cleary and Luai is the obvious (yet maybe slightly frustrating) choice.

One player who I was surprised at his relatively quiet performance was Isaac Yeo. I read somewhere he only had 12 touches of the ball in the whole game last night. If that is accurate, it would have blunted any ball skills he has and nullified any attacking contributions.

On a different note, it was also very noticeable that many NSW players were not running in support of the ball carrier let alone running onto the ball. Passes were quiet often going to a player standing flat footed more often than not who then would try to run into the defence. As a team, they did not have bodies in motion to create any confusion in the defence for the ball players to try and exploit.