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A Draft?

Messages
42,652
A draft works where the players have no other options.

AFL - They're not going to another sport or League if they get drafted to somewhere they don't want to go, so it works.

NRL players have ESL and Union as options if they're put into that position.

Apart from that is that it's been challenged twice and both times the player beat it.

No draft, stupid idea. Anyone who seriously brings it up for the NRL needs a lobotomy.
 

Card Shark

Immortal
Messages
32,237
f**k a draft, much prefer watching local kids come thru the grades.

Here Here!

Why would a club try & produce good juniors only to see them go to an arch enemy because they are a shit organization that can't manage their club / coach their players to maximum potential.

It will ruin junior development.
 
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Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
62,165
As a Raiders supporter the idea of a draft ESPECIALLY for juniors is outright terrifying. One of the advantages the Raiders has is in junior identification and promotion. Plus it takes away some of the fun for me. I like Josh Dugan not just because he is a really good fullback. There are plenty of good fullbacks floating about but its the fact he is a local junior.

Its fun to watch a promising junior either kick on or not. To watch him grow. Whats the point in junior development if your Josh Dugans of the world just get drafted off to the side that comes last. Totally lame.
 

hutch

First Grade
Messages
6,810
Who cares what the afl are doing, a draft will not work in the nrl. What happens to the junior kids growing up in Auckland, are they expected to move to another country? Stupid idea, cannot believe it has even been discussed! Just leave the trade period as it is, it is really not that big a deal!
 

undertaker

Coach
Messages
11,018
As a Raiders supporter the idea of a draft ESPECIALLY for juniors is outright terrifying. One of the advantages the Raiders has is in junior identification and promotion. Plus it takes away some of the fun for me. I like Josh Dugan not just because he is a really good fullback. There are plenty of good fullbacks floating about but its the fact he is a local junior.

Its fun to watch a promising junior either kick on or not. To watch him grow. Whats the point in junior development if your Josh Dugans of the world just get drafted off to the side that comes last. Totally lame.

Exactly. You nailed another important point there. Clubs like St George/Illawarra (moreso the Illawarra region of the JV), Canberra, Newcastle, North Queensland etc., which are renowned for having a large number of junior players in their local comps, are the ones that will suffer the most. Teams like Canberra will have absolutely no incentive to spending money on the local comps there if there is only a 1 in 16 chance (1 in 18 when the comp expands to 18 teams) of being able to get these players from their own local areas if a draft is implemented. Why would they want to spend money nurturing talent if they know another team is going to benefit from it?
 
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TimmyB

Juniors
Messages
2,332
Can someone tell me the citation for the High Court Case in which Hill challenged the draft? After watching Ray Hadley's bombastic explanation of the law of the land, I'd like to have a read of the case. I'm wondering if the operation of the draft could be recasted to bring it with the bounds of legality.
 

The AXXXMAN

Guest
Messages
67
This 'draft' solution for mid season signings has shown many journalists up for what they are - idiots. People don't understand what the AFL and other sports draft is, its not a solution to anything, especially mid season.

The question for people to send in answers to on the back page of The Courier Mail yesterday was "Should the NRL introduce a mid-season draft?" What the hell?

Even worse were the answers (probably written by the editor)
- the AFL has it and it seems to work so yes

exactly. what a ridiculous answer. do those fools even know why it works in the AFL? all the leagues with drafts have significant differences to the NRL.

1. they have strong player unions/associations to collectively represent the player group effectively, and so negotiate generous CBA's knowing that a draft is restraint of trade;
2. those leagues are the highest paying and/or there are no other real options in their sport;
3. the pathway for new players into these leagues are different to the club based juniors structure of Australian rugby league. In the USA, it's through the college system. IN the AFL, it's via Vic u/18s comp, or through the state leagues in other states.

The NFL and NBA only utilise a draft for the distribution of new players into the league.

The AFL is much more restrictive in its recruiting mechanisms and have 2 drafts - 1 for new players into the league and 1 including established players in the league (if an established player couldnt be traded, is out of contract and wants to leave a club). The AFL have now only developed a restricted Free Agency system starting this season for the top 10 paid players at each club who have played a minimum of eight (yes 8!) seasons at the one club, or unrestricted FA for players outside of the top 10 paid players and have played at least eight seasons with the one club. Good luck getting players in the NRL to support such conditions without the presence a decent collective player representative.

These f**kin nuffies in the media who crap on about the draft solving the mid-season problems are making themselves look like absolute f**kwits. Andrew Webster lost any credibility he had after his positive stance and weak argument for the draft in the NRL on TFS last night which showed a total lack of understanding on issues in the game. Obviosuly doesnt take much to become a chief rugby league writer at News.
 

In-goal

Bench
Messages
3,523
The AFL came to terms with junior development, and took this away from the clubs, much like the ARLC should do. The NRL is a proffesional league for proffesionally driven clubs, that don't need to be nurseries for juniors, that belongs to the commission.
 
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carlosthedwarf

First Grade
Messages
8,189
Why all this calamity over juniors? No one has suggested a junior draft, and I doubt it would ever pass. Presuming this draft is only for over 20s/senior players.
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
The draft concepts proposed most frequently is for players that are off contract only.
 

The AXXXMAN

Guest
Messages
67
What problem is a draft of any kind the solution for? Of? At?

The objective of a player draft is to facilitate on field parity by giving all teams equal access to an emerging player pool (new players to the league).

Pre NFL draft origins, the argument from a less well-off team owner of the NFL in the 1930s was that the better college players would sign with teams that gave them more money, or if 2 teams offered a player the same money, the college players would sign with a pro-team that had more prestige. This meant that good college players would end up at the same clubs each year and continue to dominate the league. This affected on-field parity, and hence the financial viability of the other teams.

This is hardly the problem the NRL experience and a draft is not the appropriate remedy for mid-season signings. A free agency period is.
 

carlosthedwarf

First Grade
Messages
8,189
The objective of this media proposed NRL draft though is to make sure no one can sign with a specific team before the end of the season. Has nothing to do with parity.

It's not the solution for this issue.
 

seanoff

Juniors
Messages
1,207
Can someone tell me the citation for the High Court Case in which Hill challenged the draft? After watching Ray Hadley's bombastic explanation of the law of the land, I'd like to have a read of the case. I'm wondering if the operation of the draft could be recasted to bring it with the bounds of legality.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/si...ms=0&query=AFL

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journal...wJl/2006/5.pdf

these are pretty much all of the applicable law.

"the Australian High Court followed Eastham v Newcastle United Football Club
(Eastham) in the United Kingdom. In Eastham, the court acknowledged that the governing association had a ‘special and legitimate’ interest in ensuring that the football remained of a high quality by having competitive evenness between rival teams, and therefore imposing restraints to facilitate that objective."


and the NSWRL system probably would have survived if it had been less restrictive.
"While Gummow J’s overall conclusion was that the internal draft was in restraint of trade, his Honour did add that the NSWRL could reconsider the rules, implying that different, less restrictive draft rules could be considered a reasonable restraint of trade."

The ARLC have to do something, the current situation is untenable with players leaving clubs 18 months in advance.

whether it's a trade period, pre-season draft or both, something has to happen.
 

Quidgybo

Bench
Messages
3,054
The ARLC have to do something, the current situation is untenable with players leaving clubs 18 months in advance.
Why is it untenable? I'm sorry, but I still don't see the problem. These are career professionals plying their profession. What arrangements they make to advance their career outside of game day (when I pay my hard earned to watch them) are really none of my business or concern.

Leigh
 

hellteam

First Grade
Messages
6,536
Oh my god. Did anyone see that f**khead Rebecca Wilson's article this morning . She haS no idea

http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/leagues-chaos-theory/story-fn7r8ye7-1226302077080

I HAVE spent the best part of the last week smack bang in the middle of AFL territory, a place that is so far removed from rugby league as you can get.

In Western Australia at present, only one thing obsesses this footy-mad place. Pre-season previews are two inches thick and local television news bulletins feature interviews with coaches that last the duration of the sports break.

It is a weird feeling being in a place where this season's footy is all that matters. Whether the West Coast Eagles can win the flag is the only thing being discussed, aside from speculation about the under-performing Fremantle Dockers.

Not a soul is looking to the off-season, the draft or, heaven forbid, 2013. It is pretty much how all footy codes should go about their business. Live in the moment and enjoy it.

Rugby League needs desperately to send some of its new commissioners west for an educational experience. There they will glean pretty quickly that league is in a crisis of sorts that can only be solved with some dramatic changes.

The AFL draft ensures that there is a single window each year when player movements and manager power plays create headlines. With the possible exception of Gary Ablett junior two seasons ago, the media and fans simply do not entertain the notion that anything but the current season matters.

The signing this week of Beau Scott by the Newcastle Knights for 2013 , just a fortnight into 2012 , underlines just how out of control player movements have become.

Later in the week, major league headlines were grabbed by two Manly stars whose managers are now shopping them around for next year. Forget that round three of the footy has not even been played, or that fans have paid good money to watch their beloved teams run around with a belief that their favourite players actually liked playing together.

NRL boss David Gallop will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into a draft system. He has stuck steadfastly to the line for many years that pulling young men away from their families via a draft is tantamount to torture.

His belief is that local clubs or schools who develop players deserve to reap the benefits by seeing players progress locally. He also insists that league would lose its advantage over AFL by shipping its young stars all over the country.

All of this is a nonsense. I am yet to meet a single young man who would pass up the chance to fulfil his sporting ambitions because he wanted to stay home with mum and dad. The allegedly dysfunctional young athletes running around in the AFL will tell you in a heartbeat that, after 24 hours of pain, they absolutely love being with their new family of mates, mentors and coaches.

One young bloke transferred from Melbourne to the Sydney Swans several years ago told me he spent his days "living the dream". This was a kid raised as a rabid Essendon fan. He played all of his junior footy in the local district, but the moment his name came up in the draft, he was off. His teammates at the Swans will now tell you he is a true Blood.

Gallop believes there are legal ramifications that would prevent the introduction of the draft. A successful court challenge several years ago by Manly's Terry Hill has sufficiently spooked league officials to the point that nobody has been assigned to working a way around the law by simply changing NRL rules.

Commentators, too, see overtones of fascist regimes in a draft system. They argue that clubs deserve to blood local stars who have spent years coming up through junior ranks. The hard facts are, though, that salary cap rules prevent clubs holding on to more than a handful of those players. If you win a competition with a stable of local stars, they will not be locals next year or the year after. Just ask Manly or Melbourne about holding on to juniors. The fact is that league must act to stop players signing up to other clubs earlier and earlier in the season. Player managers have been given carte blanch to hawk players in a system that verges on anarchy.

When a side like Manly is trying to defend a premiership while managers are holding them to ransom, something is desperately wrong.

Clubs are coaxed into acts of desperation and coaches like Manly's Geoff Toovey are left looking a decade older within a week of the season starting.

The commission has a chance to make a change that would have a genuine long term impact on the game. It is the first big test of its mettle, and one that will pit the commission's members against their chief executive. It is a fight worth having
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,766
Main issues here are

1 - players signing for other clubs 2 years in advance - something the fans hate

2 - clubs hording juniors

Salary Cap - hand in hand with # of players (eg 32 today) like it or not has been a good way to balance playing rosters

Anyone out of that 32 can negotiate for a transfer. When they can do this is the main issue

Other Issue I see is that clubs can actually sign players 33-3000 without restriction

So we need a rule that covers RG, U20, U18 and U16's

By adding a national RG we can then implement a appropriate structure

So every club can sign

32 FG players
20 RG players
25 U20 players
25 U18 players
25 U16 players

All managed by appropriate Salary Cap rules at each level

You also need to have Salary Cap concessions for players remaining loyal for their club - or playing a junior district club for 5 years prior to making the junior reps

You also need to setup $500 K grants for NSW Cup and QLD Cup teams with a $1 mil Salary Cap in thos competitions

Transfer windows are needed

For in-season transfers - May 15 to May 30

For post season transfers - Sep 1 is the start date - ending on Oct 31. With the current club able to override any potential offer up until Sep 1

Everyone one else is a free agent to sign with NSW or QLD Cup teams

After that everyone can sign with country teams or A grade clubs

And of course there needs to be a national NZ Cup developed
 

BunniesMan

Immortal
Messages
33,733
I'd like to see a draft, but more importantly is a Trade Week/Month.

A draft would be nice, but limiting player movement to a week in late October/November is important.

I'm sick of the media and fans talking about this shit all year instead of this weeks games. I'm sick of players signing 12-16 months in advance. I'm sick of players not focused on what fans are focused on.

With a trade week the players will know, they play hard all year, the offers will come in when the time comes and they will get paid.

Make a trade week, when we get that sorted out then we can look at a draft.
 

gUt

Coach
Messages
16,935
I highly doubt the fans really give a rat's arse any more. Sure there are still plenty of old schoolers left who miss the days of local juniors bleeding for their local team but those days are long gone and won't be coming back. We're used to seeing our clubs signing the best available talent (except for Parra fans).

A draft is the red headed step child of talent equalisation measures. The day an NRL team tanks is the day I stop watching it.
 

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