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AFL to spend $300 million on Gold Coast? Batlle with the NRL continues.

t-ba

Post Whore
Messages
58,326
No, Tasmania and Regional Victoria are included. Regional Victoria always scores suprisingly strongly on the NRL grand final for some unknown reason.
 

meltiger

First Grade
Messages
6,268
Desert Qlder said:
North Melbourne are not in the same league as South Sydney as far as history goes. But what it has done is it has created a sense of anxiety amongst supporters of other Melb. clubs about their future. They now see the AFL as doing anything it wants at the expense of clubs, including threatening them with extinction.


:lol: :lol:

NFI some of you people.

Maybe TWO at best sets of fans outside of Nth Melbourne may be worried. The AFL will ensure at least one of them survives (Melbourne) because of the MCC and the Western Bulldogs - Well they have their lives in their own hands. They are in danger of being swamped by Geelong out here (Especially after the premiership) - But if they can make a real go of it could become a powerhouse 20-30 years down the road.


The Kangaroos have been essentially dead for years, ever since their failed idea to play games in Sydney (I went to watch 'em play Richmond one year up there and there were more Richmond supporters there lol, the crowd was allegedly 7k but I thought it was about 3). The AFL pushing to kill Nth Melbourne has been expected for years. Most of the other Melbourne clubs are putting steps in place to ensure it doesn't happen.


it will fail, but they might as well give the GC a shot.
 

t-ba

Post Whore
Messages
58,326
meltiger said:
it will fail, but they might as well give the GC a shot.

Well since your pragmatic about it, how long do you think they'll keep subsidising the 'Shin Boners' on the Gold Coast?

The AFL is flush with cash at the moment as a result of 7/10 paying well above market value for the AFL rights. Once the figures reflect market reality, does the cash stop and they hand the control of the club over to Southport pokie farm?
 

meltiger

First Grade
Messages
6,268
t-ba said:
Well since your pragmatic about it, how long do you think they'll keep subsidising the 'Shin Boners' on the Gold Coast?

Depends on how important they really see it as being. They propped up the Swans for 20 years.


I'm a realist. It's the same as RL, Melbourne works, but a second Victorian side? Zero chance in hell of being viable. A second QLD side in Aussie Rules is really going to struggle.


I only say they should give it a crack because they are dead down here, at least if they go to QLD the AFL will do everything in their power to help them survive.


You RL only types should be hoping Southport isn't given the licence :)
 

t-ba

Post Whore
Messages
58,326
meltiger said:
You RL only types should be hoping Southport isn't given the licence :)

Meh. Southport Sharks are despised by most GC Natives. It'd be like giving the Seagulls an NRL license again.

Besides, if Southport gets rid of its early bird special to fund an AFL side, all the old people in Coomera will start catching the shuttle bus to the Greenbank RSL instead!
 

Coaster

Bench
Messages
3,162
Even i am a member of the Southport Sharks, and i can not stand the sport.

5 dollars to join, and that will get you into just about every other RSL, and sports club on the coast.

I wouldnt read to much into the fact they have massive member numbers
 

Quidgybo

Bench
Messages
3,054
A few thoughts...

The AFL isn't going to spend $300m on a new stadium. They might facilitate a deal and provide long term occupancy guarantees for someone else to build a 30,000 seat venue (which won't cost anywhere near $300m anyway) but no sporting competition in Australia has either the available cash or the political support of their own stakeholders to fund a project of that size for one club.

The QLD government deal requiring games for any new AFL team to be played at the Gabba until 2015 is meaningless. It is the government's deal to rip up for the right price. The AFL are prepared to pay that price. The government will examine any proposal from the point of the view of the economy. Major sporting teams equal dollars into the local economy. If enforcement of the Gabba deal is the difference between the Gabba being left with only 11 AFL games each year, and the Gabba being left with 11 but Carrara getting another 11, then the agreement is history.

The AFL isn't going to expand to 17 teams. The Kangaroos will either be forced to move to the Gold Coast for season 2010; have their special prop-up funding withdrawn after 2009, go broke and their existing identity and player list sold off to new owners (Southport) on the Gold Coast for season 2011; or have their special funding withdrawn, be allowed to die and then replaced by a new consortium playing as a new identity (ie. Sharks) on the Gold Coast for season 2011.

The AFL are prepared to prop up a franchise on the Gold Coast and cover any effect it has on the Lions virtually indefinitely. From the vantage point at AFL HQ there is little difference between money pissed away propping up teams in Melbourne that will never again be self sufficient than there is spending that same money developing a fan base in new markets which eventually will become self sufficient - even if it does take 30. It is not a black hole. There is a pay off many years down the track but it will cost hundreds of millions of dollars in the meantime. The AFL are prepared to cop that cost for where it places them in 50 years.

No amount of wishful thinking on the part of RL or RL fans is going to prevent this from happening and once it does happen, it isn't going away after just a few years. Yes we will beat them hands down in our own markets the same way the Storm get beaten in Melbourne. But none the less the new team will carve a niche in the market over time that will eventually become profitable for the AFL at some sort of expense to RL and other sports.

The team will be successful. Not just on the field due to special concessions at the expense of other AFL teams, but also off it. That off field success might take 20 or 30 years and in the meantime the club will suffer massive losses, but the AFL doesn't care about the short term problems. It is taking a long term view and is prepared to continue to support the club as long as it takes. Given the AFL's history of supporting basket cases on the frontier until they reach a level of success and sustainability I'm amazed at the immature bravado and ridicule from some people here.

I, as a RL fan, am in no way worried or concerned by the AFL's push. I wish them luck and hope it works out for them. But RL's destiny is in its own hands, not the AFL's. We have the fortune of the naturally better game to sell. If our game keeps its own house in order and continues to expand into new markets of its own to cover any loses suffered from rival sports moving into our markets then we have nothing to fear. If on the other hand we become merely reactive, insular and conservative, only ever worried about what the other guy is up to then we don't deserve to be the top code - either across the country or in our traditional markets.

Leigh
 

In-goal

Bench
Messages
3,523
The above post is one of the most enlightened i have ever read, it's about time a balanced view was put forward.

Honestly if anyone here thinks the AFL will back down think again, the Sydney Football Club is now highly proffitable with around 30,000 members signing up each season. It took the AFL more than 20 years to achieve this, i don't think they will be worried about cach flow any time soon.
 

Lockyer4President!

First Grade
Messages
7,975
In-goal said:
The above post is one of the most enlightened i have ever read, it's about time a balanced view was put forward.

Honestly if anyone here thinks the AFL will back down think again, the Sydney Football Club is now highly proffitable with around 30,000 members signing up each season. It took the AFL more than 20 years to achieve this, i don't think they will be worried about cach flow any time soon.
I think you mean the Swans there mate, Sydney Football Club is the name of the soccer team.
 

Brutus

Referee
Messages
26,287
gho said:
They'll have to pay for part of it, it doenst matter even if she loathes AFL.

She doesn't loathe flogball - she was a regular at Lions matches when they were winning. Bandwagoner.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,968
Yes, but the Swans had the help of something called "Super League", a luxury the Kangaroos will never get.
 

ParraEelsNRL

Referee
Messages
27,694
This can only be good for RL and Soccer in Vic, the more teams they move, merge or kill off, the more people will get the sh*ts and abandon their old club and the AFL itself just like what happened to RL during the SL war.

I can't see them working up there, if it doesn't and the next TV contract isn't as big, how will they continue to fund it and how will they continue to fund the other clubs like they do now?

Could see a few clubs die out, it's not like they can put any team in Nth QLD, Newcastle, Wollongong and Canberra and we already know Tas and NT are too small, worrying times ahead for the self promoted National sport of Australia.
 

JW

Coach
Messages
12,657
ParraEelsNRL said:
it's not like they can put any team in Nth QLD, Newcastle, Wollongong and Canberra and we already know Tas and NT are too small, worrying times ahead for the self promoted National sport of Australia.

The sad thing is that they think they can. Their arrogance will be their undoing.
 

Lockyer4President!

First Grade
Messages
7,975
JW said:
The sad thing is that they think they can. Their arrogance will be their undoing.
Yep, the AFL will look back on this period and call it their golden age cause it's all downhill from here.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,729
Did you actually read Quidgybo's post? The AFL aren't worried about the next 5 years or the next 10, they are thinking the next 20-50 years. Have they been taken over by the Japanese as they have a similiar long term thinking?
 

Lockyer4President!

First Grade
Messages
7,975
Perth Red said:
Did you actually read Quidgybo's post? The AFL aren't worried about the next 5 years or the next 10, they are thinking the next 20-50 years. Have they been taken over by the Japanese as they have a similiar long term thinking?

If you get too caught up in looking into the future then you'll trip over something you didn't see coming in the present.

What do you think will happen if the AFL's next tv deal doesn't increase or even decreases? How will they possibly prop up 7 teams (that's almost half the comp!)? How on earth do they expect to fund a $300m stadium with help from the government when the current venue rarely breaks 2/3's full? How many more premierships can they give to expansion teams before the fans start to lose interest in a rigged comp?
 

Fightin' Irish

Juniors
Messages
50
Quidgybo said:
A few thoughts...

The AFL isn't going to spend $300m on a new stadium. They might facilitate a deal and provide long term occupancy guarantees for someone else to build a 30,000 seat venue (which won't cost anywhere near $300m anyway) but no sporting competition in Australia has either the available cash or the political support of their own stakeholders to fund a project of that size for one club.

The QLD government deal requiring games for any new AFL team to be played at the Gabba until 2015 is meaningless. It is the government's deal to rip up for the right price. The AFL are prepared to pay that price. The government will examine any proposal from the point of the view of the economy. Major sporting teams equal dollars into the local economy. If enforcement of the Gabba deal is the difference between the Gabba being left with only 11 AFL games each year, and the Gabba being left with 11 but Carrara getting another 11, then the agreement is history.

The AFL isn't going to expand to 17 teams. The Kangaroos will either be forced to move to the Gold Coast for season 2010; have their special prop-up funding withdrawn after 2009, go broke and their existing identity and player list sold off to new owners (Southport) on the Gold Coast for season 2011; or have their special funding withdrawn, be allowed to die and then replaced by a new consortium playing as a new identity (ie. Sharks) on the Gold Coast for season 2011.

The AFL are prepared to prop up a franchise on the Gold Coast and cover any effect it has on the Lions virtually indefinitely. From the vantage point at AFL HQ there is little difference between money pissed away propping up teams in Melbourne that will never again be self sufficient than there is spending that same money developing a fan base in new markets which eventually will become self sufficient - even if it does take 30. It is not a black hole. There is a pay off many years down the track but it will cost hundreds of millions of dollars in the meantime. The AFL are prepared to cop that cost for where it places them in 50 years.

No amount of wishful thinking on the part of RL or RL fans is going to prevent this from happening and once it does happen, it isn't going away after just a few years. Yes we will beat them hands down in our own markets the same way the Storm get beaten in Melbourne. But none the less the new team will carve a niche in the market over time that will eventually become profitable for the AFL at some sort of expense to RL and other sports.

The team will be successful. Not just on the field due to special concessions at the expense of other AFL teams, but also off it. That off field success might take 20 or 30 years and in the meantime the club will suffer massive losses, but the AFL doesn't care about the short term problems. It is taking a long term view and is prepared to continue to support the club as long as it takes. Given the AFL's history of supporting basket cases on the frontier until they reach a level of success and sustainability I'm amazed at the immature bravado and ridicule from some people here.

I, as a RL fan, am in no way worried or concerned by the AFL's push. I wish them luck and hope it works out for them. But RL's destiny is in its own hands, not the AFL's. We have the fortune of the naturally better game to sell. If our game keeps its own house in order and continues to expand into new markets of its own to cover any loses suffered from rival sports moving into our markets then we have nothing to fear. If on the other hand we become merely reactive, insular and conservative, only ever worried about what the other guy is up to then we don't deserve to be the top code - either across the country or in our traditional markets.

Leigh

One of the better more level headed posts i've seen.
 

Fightin' Irish

Juniors
Messages
50
Lockyer4President! said:
If you get too caught up in looking into the future then you'll trip over something you didn't see coming in the present.

What do you think will happen if the AFL's next tv deal doesn't increase or even decreases? How will they possibly prop up 7 teams (that's almost half the comp!)? How on earth do they expect to fund a $300m stadium with help from the government when the current venue rarely breaks 2/3's full? How many more premierships can they give to expansion teams before the fans start to lose interest in a rigged comp?

Too right, they should maroon a team behind enemy lines with no help and let it prosper on its own.

If you want to gain a foothold in a foreign market then you need to pump some serious dollars and take some hits early. What do you think News limited is doing with my mob the storm?
 
Messages
42,632
Don't the Storm have the same salary cap as everyone else?

The Swans and the Lions didn't have the same salary cap as everyone else for the last 6 or 7 years...
 

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