Ah-kwilla You-ah-tay

[RABK]

I'd like to hear JM's opinion as i believed he played quite a bit of wing and would have a good insight into how hard it is to be spot on in defence out there. I think he also played FB a bit too so probably was covering winger errors in defence a lot too. Anyone else play wing in league or union?

I played wing in one game where my side was injury struck and let in about 3 tries in 30 minutes. To be fair every single one was the result of an overlap and my instincts kept telling me to jam up on the centre and hope i had cover coming across to take the winger into touch. Every fibre in my body told me to take the centre and not let him stroll through to score in the 5m gap my inside players had left. You feel as though forcing that extra pass and perhaps with the sideline acting as '14th defender' you may have just increased your sides chance at stopping the try by giving the cover defence an extra 3 seconds rather than staying on your winger and hoping the cover somehow stops the centre scoring a try from 10m running into a 5m gap.

I was hugely inexperienced and had no trust in anyone out there - i remember copping a bit of flack but considering i was a hooker playing on the wing not much was expected of me out there. But from uber confidence mixing it in with the big boys in the ruck i remember feeling utterly hopeless defending outwide. I hated it. It's damn hard.

 

[RABK]

I think the biggest thing is it really is a 4 man operation out there. Winger, centre, half, backrower. If one in the chain makes an error it creates a domino effect and the line is broken and someone is forced to take one of two men - as long as the ensuing passes stick a try is often going to be conceded.

The ensuing try is often scored down past the winger who cops the bums wrap for it when the try was actually conceeded by a player 3 or 4 men in falling for a decoy or missing a tackle.

 

[Nuffy]

RABK

I played wing, centre and FB in both league and Union in Newcastle and Sydney.

As a winger, the first thing you are taught in both codes is stay on your man, the practicalities of it are that if a centre misses a tackle, cover may reach him, if a winger does, its very hard for the cover to move far enough, quickly enough to catch them.

Aku lost his origin spot because he was beaten on the outside, if he stays out, then the centre needs to make the decision, not the winger.

Think about it, who is better equipped to make a good decision, a centre or winger, the centre typically will make twice as many tackles and are better readers in defence due to their positioning experience.

 

[Johns Magic]

I'd like to hear JM's opinion as i believed he played quite a bit of wing and would have a good insight into how hard it is to be spot on in defence out there. I think he also played FB a bit too so probably was covering winger errors in defence a lot too. Anyone else play wing in league or union?

I played wing in one game where my side was injury struck and let in about 3 tries in 30 minutes. To be fair every single one was the result of an overlap and my instincts kept telling me to jam up on the centre and hope i had cover coming across to take the winger into touch. Every fibre in my body told me to take the centre and not let him stroll through to score in the 5m gap my inside players had left. You feel as though forcing that extra pass and perhaps with the sideline acting as '14th defender' you may have just increased your sides chance at stopping the try by giving the cover defence an extra 3 seconds rather than staying on your winger and hoping the cover somehow stops the centre scoring a try from 10m running into a 5m gap.

I was hugely inexperienced and had no trust in anyone out there - i remember copping a bit of flack but considering i was a hooker playing on the wing not much was expected of me out there. But from uber confidence mixing it in with the big boys in the ruck i remember feeling utterly hopeless defending outwide. I hated it. It's damn hard.

I'd just like to clarify that I don't think I'm the authority on wing defence just because I've played there, but I do think there are some basic rules you can follow and since you asked I guess I'll say them. Wing defence can be very difficult for newbies but you can definitely develop an instinct for it. Even good wing defenders can be made to look like idiots at times though.

My biggest criticism of Uate's defence is that he often comes in when he doesn't have to at all, or when he does come in correctly he sometimes comes in at half-pace, which renders it useless.

The golden rule with wing defence is that you stay on your winger. Then if there is an overlap and you do have to come in to shut down the centre, you start as close to the winger as you can and jam in hard while the ball's in the air on its way to the centre. If you start on the centre, a cutout will be thrown to the winger and you're toast. Starting on the winger means the ball will be thrown to the centre first, and your job is to rush him while the ball's in the air and either hit him as he's catching it or cut down his angle for the pass to the winger.

The last try yesterday that Uate let in, there was absolutely no reason to come in. The centre was already marked by Gagai.

One of the tries down Uate's wing in Origin, Uate came in when there was an overlap but he didn't really commit and only came in at half-pace. If you do come in you've got to do it with the intention of cutting down the centre's time by as much as possible. Coming in slowly so they still have time to comfortably catch and pass achieves nothing and leaves an overlap.

There can definitely ve times on the wing when you're just stranded, but Uate makes a few too many bad calls when the numbers are there in defence.

 

[RABK]

RABK

I played wing, centre and FB in both league and Union in Newcastle and Sydney.

As a winger, the first thing you are taught in both codes is stay on your man, the practicalities of it are that if a centre misses a tackle, cover may reach him, if a winger does, its very hard for the cover to move far enough, quickly enough to catch them.

Aku lost his origin spot because he was beaten on the outside, if he stays out, then the centre needs to make the decision, not the winger.

Think about it, who is better equipped to make a good decision, a centre or winger, the centre typically will make twice as many tackles and are better readers in defence due to their positioning experience.

Did you always stay on your man - instinct to take the centre never occured? How much did the position of the sideline relative to the current passage of play, if at all, affect your decision making?

Seems to me in the day and age of 100kg+ centres that just as many tries are going to be let through if the winger chooses to stay out on his man and hope, considering we are talking overlaps creating space, that the centre is going to be able to slide and prevent the try. It'd require immense strength to be able to stop the try force when your body weight and movement is moving laterally to halt a 100kg bloke running straight.

A winger jamming up when the centre is covering his man without letting space appear is another matter. Try and keep in mind that we are talking about a winger seeing a centre receiving the ball with his opposing centre a good 5m infield from him 10-15m out from the line. I really can't blame wingers for jamming up in such a case occasionally. Split second instinct tells you to.

 

[RABK]

Nicely said JM. Especially the part about how to most effectively defend a 2 on 1 overlap by cutting the centres time as much as possible.

So it's obvious although wing is hard to defend there are methods and rules that can help out there and Uate doesn't apply these methods/rules enough or at the right time.

 

[Johns Magic]

RABK

I played wing, centre and FB in both league and Union in Newcastle and Sydney.

As a winger, the first thing you are taught in both codes is stay on your man, the practicalities of it are that if a centre misses a tackle, cover may reach him, if a winger does, its very hard for the cover to move far enough, quickly enough to catch them.

Aku lost his origin spot because he was beaten on the outside, if he stays out, then the centre needs to make the decision, not the winger.

Think about it, who is better equipped to make a good decision, a centre or winger, the centre typically will make twice as many tackles and are better readers in defence due to their positioning experience.

Yeah that all applies as well. You see plenty of tries where a defending winger comes in and lets his opposite winger score in the corner, where had he stayed on the winger and forced the opposite centre to run, the cover defence would have been able to come across and make the tackle on him. Some of those tries where the winger just plants the ball inside the cornerpost as the cover defender is throwing themselves at him highlight this.

Obviously there is a judgement call in cases like that though in terms of where the cover defence is and the proximity to the try line.

 

[Nuffy]

Did you always stay on your man - instinct to take the centre never occured? How much did the position of the sideline relative to the current passage of play, if at all, affect your decision making?

Seems to me in the day and age of 100kg+ centres that just as many tries are going to be let through if the winger chooses to stay out on his man and hope, considering we are talking overlaps creating space, that the centre is going to be able to slide and prevent the try. It'd require immense strength to be able to stop the try force when your body weight and movement is moving laterally to halt a 100kg bloke running straight.

A winger jamming up when the centre is covering his man without letting space appear is another matter. Try and keep in mind that we are talking about a winger seeing a centre receiving the ball with his opposing centre a good 5m infield from him 10-15m out from the line. I really can't blame wingers for jamming up in such a case occasionally. Split second instinct tells you to.

My experience may not have been atypical but I played my first game of rugby as a 14 year old against Singleton and I was Aku like in coming in early in the game and getting beaten on the outside. We had a hard bitten Kiwi coach who gave it to me after the game and at training the next week and I learnt a lesson.

If you stay on your man, there's a chance the try might be scored or successfully defended, if you come in like Aku did then you don't stand a chance, the try will be scored.

In junior footy, pace might save you sometimes, moving through grade its less likely and in the NRL you will get murdered.

Your right about the comment regarding 100kg centres, the difference is that wingers jamming in, leaving their opposite with a clear run to the line is just ordinary. Missed tackles happen and bad decisions are made, but wingers need to stay on their man otherwise they are asking to be burnt.

Some NRL wingers like Mcmanus seem very adept at making great decisions on when to jam in and when to stay out. He has a skill in that area.

Aku isnt so gifted, so he needs to simplify his game and stay out.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Coming in and helping out your centre is sometimes necessary but it needs to be done like JM said, jamming in from close to your opposing winger and only when the centre inside of you has made contact and needs help shutting the ball carrier down.

Aku often makes the mistake of starting inside well before there is any contact and leaves his man unmarked. That's murder close to the line

BTW I played plenty of centre in both Union and League and if my winger did what Aku does so often, I would have given them a huge spray.

 

[Bring it home Knights]

Alex; so far in this thread you've come up with a bunch of things that are definitely 'out there'. You said that opinions can't be wrong. You also said that Uate needs a good centre to create things for him as he's just a finisher. Both comments make no sense at all, that's if if evidence is used as a criteria for reality.

Your statements on the above, I'm more than willing to ignore, but you were asked a question based on another statement of yours. That statement being that there are a few wingers out there that are better than Uate. JM has asked you to clarify who these wingers are. Howerver there is nothing but silence on your behalf to date.

Any chance of you actually giving an answer to the question?

 

[Alex28]

It's killing you that I'm not participating on your game of 'big man on the forum' isn't it?

Just for shits and giggles, I'll participate. It's going to be a long off-season. One of them plays for the very same club Aku does.

Do your worst big man.

 

[Bring it home Knights]

It's killing you that I'm not participating on your game of 'big man on the forum' isn't it?

Just for shits and giggles, I'll participate. It's going to be a long off-season. One of them plays for the very same club Aku does.

Do your worst big man.

Killing me? Please.... You came out with a statement that you can name wingers that are better than Uate. When others asked you who, you didn't reply, so I thought I'd try and get the answer out of you... :roll:

I talk up Mcmanus on here more than most, but to say he is better than Uate is laughable.. Speaking personally, there's no need to mention the other winger you rate higher, as the one you have already mentioned is crazy talk :crazy:

 

[Alex28]

Failed your first test big man. Not referring to McManus.

If you are going to talk the talk big man, at least be smart about it.

 

[Joker's Wild]

You cant be talking about Kev "hands like feet" Naiqama Alex?

 

[Jono078]

He's talking about the guy that's been considered the next big thing for about 10 years now. PETE MATA'UTIA.

 

[Johns Magic]

Pretty sure he means Boyd, which is a bit of a stretch on a few levels in my opinion.

 

[Bring it home Knights]

Pretty sure he means Boyd, which is a bit of a stretch on a few levels in my opinion.

Surely he can't mean Boyd. He's a fullback after all. When was the last time Boyd played wing at club level?

I guess if evidence isn't the criteria and blind faith is, then I guess Boyd can be said to be a better winger :?

BTW, is the only reason that you have mentioned one come down to the fact that you can't split the other winger between Matt Bowen, Billy Slater and Brett Stewert?

 

[Alex28]

Who well and truly outplayed Aku in Origin 1 and 2?

Boyd is a better winger than Aku. Just because he plays fullback does not mean he isn't a better winger than Aku. It just means he is the best fullback AND winger in the club.

It's going to be a long offseason. Can't have all the fun straight away. Leave you guys to your bitching and moaning.

 

[Bring it home Knights]

Who well and truly outplayed Aku in Origin 1 and 2?

Boyd is a better winger than Aku. Just because he plays fullback does not mean he isn't a better winger than Aku. It just means he is the best fullback AND winger in the club.

It's going to be a long offseason. Can't have all the fun straight away. Leave you guys to your bitching and moaning.

Do you know that Mundine outplayed Daley and Fittler in a few games. Does this mean that Mundine is a better 5/8 than the 2 mentioned?

Your reasoning skills leave a lot to be desired imo.

 

[The Showstopper]

Boyd had Inglis creating room off superb decoy runs Alex. Even Darbs would laugh at your assertion he is a better winger than Aku.