Aus v Tonga sold out - Aus v NZ struggling to sell tickets

[Jim from Oz]

Shows how badly this was organised, the Kiwi game should have been played outside Auckland, and played as a Tri Series. Meninga is happy to cash in on the Tonga game at the expense of the Kiwi game, typical RL, NZ don't sell out anymore so bugger them we'll focus on Tonga now.

NZ have been weakened by the Tonga game going up against it, the Aussies would never make the same sacrifice or put in place rules to weaken themselves which is what should be done for the benefit of the international game because they want the Pacific eligible players playing origin eg. Radradra.

Had these games been organised correctly, it should have been a tri series:

Australia v NZ - Christchurch

NZ v Tonga - Whangarei

Australia v Tonga - Auckland

Exactly my thoughts … makes total sense … which is why it isn't happening … this is RL !!

 

[Walter sobchak]

Exactly my thoughts … makes total sense … which is why it isn't happening … this is RL !!

Maybe if the kiwis weren’t playing a 3 test series against England in England and a test against France on French soil it could have happened.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I know people disagree with me when I say this but is anyone now going to deny now that the bulk of the NZ Rugby League public are from the Tongan and Samoan communities? These Tongan fans are probably mostly NZ born and are happy to follow the Kiwis if that is all that is on offer but if Tonga are an option for them they will switch alegiances without a question.

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

Agreed.

 

[Matua]

I don't think that's true. I have a bunch of league mates who aren't Samoan or Tongan. There's been a large PI influence in NZ league for a while now, but I don't think last year has changed it completely to dominance (fans-wise not player-wise). In fact, I was surprised at how many Pakeha NZers there were supporting the Warriors v Penrith in the Warriors supporters section.

Also, my Tongan cousin who went bonkers over the Tongan league team last year barely watches league normally.

 

[Springs09]

I know people disagree with me when I say this but is anyone now going to deny now that the bulk of the NZ Rugby League public are from the Tongan and Samoan communities? These Tongan fans are probably mostly NZ born and are happy to follow the Kiwis if that is all that is on offer but if Tonga are an option for them they will switch alegiances without a question.

Maybe but not too sure. The Kiwis should have got bigger crowds in the past if all these Tongan fans followed them.

What is likely is that a good percentage of the Tongan crowd are usually union fans, but follow their country closer than their chosen sport, while in Australia most league fans couldn't give a shit about the Wallabies and vice versa. I know Facebook was filled with Tongans after the semi last year complaining about not going to the 'TMO'. Among the Islanders I know there is much less of a divide between league and union and many play both.

 

[morningstar]

I know people disagree with me when I say this but is anyone now going to deny now that the bulk of the NZ Rugby League public are from the Tongan and Samoan communities? These Tongan fans are probably mostly NZ born and are happy to follow the Kiwis if that is all that is on offer but if Tonga are an option for them they will switch alegiances without a question.

I will. There are only 200k people who identify as Samoan & Tongan in NZ. 7.4% of the population as Pacific Islands people.

RL might appear niche in NZ next to the juggernaut of the All Blacks but its not that small time.

 

[playdaball]

I drove through Otahuhu (Sth AUCKLAND) earlier this week and the Tongan flags are back again. You can see them on cars and houses. This will only get bigger over the next few weeks.

The few radio adverts for the NZ vs Aust games are all centered around ‘ 3 tests in one day’ ( Kiwis; woman’s and juniors) .... this is wrong!

The promos should be based around the NRL sides that all fans are familiar with, both Aussies and Kiwis. I’d be using the Kiwi - Aussie rivalry, targeting star players and also run on the back of the Warriors successful season to promote this game.

 

[ouryears]

I don’t think the Tongan fans will be hostile. Very vocal but not hostile.

True, the times I’ve been to a Tongan match the their supporters are vocal, very passionate .....but every single one were polite, nice and a happy bunch
Great supporters, lovely people

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Believe it or not there are only about 60,000 people who identify as "Tongan" in New Zealand, and probably between 40,000-50,000 in the greater Auckland region

http://archive.stats.govt.nz/Census...ckstats-culture-identity/pacific-peoples.aspx

The Tongan rugby league supporter base literally consists of almost the entire Tongan population attending these games as sort of a show of nationalistic pride

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

By comparison there are around 150,000 Samoans in NZ....

I am no expert on Pacific cultures but I think that Tongan identity is quite singular in that they are a kingdom, and pretty much the only Island nation that was never colonised. As a result the culture is intensely nationalistic.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

bring this game on already. looking forward to more of this:

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

The people of pacific island ethnicity have long participated in rugby league in NZ whether its on the field or off it. You will DESTROY rugby league in NZ if they somehow all ditched the game here in NZ.

The Kiwis is a representation of rugby league in NZ, always has been. David Kidwell tried to 'maorify' the team for whatever reason and this is the reason we lost the Tongans. Its a good thing we hadn't lost the Samoan players because guys like RTS and NAS would up and leave as well. Kidwell didn't even fully understand his own motto - 'the key is we' because if he did he would know that in our team, we are Tongan, we are Maori etc...

As a kiwi and a non-Tongan, I'm happy for the Tongans and for their people to watch their team play here in NZ. They've participated immensely to the success of NZ rugby league over the years.

 

[deluded pom?]

bring this game on already. looking forward to more of this:

When I attended the Samoa v Tonga WC game the crowd would spontaneously start singing a hymn. It didn't matter whether it was a Samoan or a Tongan who started the singing they all knew the words and joined in. Great to witness.

 

[shinobi]

I know people disagree with me when I say this but is anyone now going to deny now that the bulk of the NZ Rugby League public are from the Tongan and Samoan communities? These Tongan fans are probably mostly NZ born and are happy to follow the Kiwis if that is all that is on offer but if Tonga are an option for them they will switch alegiances without a question.

You know there are a lot of maori and pakeha supporters right? 2 thirds of the team were maori

 

[Matua]

The people of pacific island ethnicity have long participated in rugby league in NZ whether its on the field or off it. You will DESTROY rugby league in NZ if they somehow all ditched the game here in NZ.

The Kiwis is a representation of rugby league in NZ, always has been. David Kidwell tried to 'maorify' the team for whatever reason and this is the reason we lost the Tongans. Its a good thing we hadn't lost the Samoan players because guys like RTS and NAS would up and leave as well. Kidwell didn't even fully understand his own motto - 'the key is we' because if he did he would know that in our team, we are Tongan, we are Maori etc...

As a kiwi and a non-Tongan, I'm happy for the Tongans and for their people to watch their team play here in NZ. They've participated immensely to the success of NZ rugby league over the years.

Do we have any evidence of this? 'Maori-fying' a team doesn't necessarily lead to this situation. The Chiefs were Maori-fied, with a decent number of Tongans, and it was a successful strategy that saw them win two titles and be a regular finalist.

I find it odd that it would drive away JT, Fusitua and Taukeiaho. I thought it was more tied into the coaching (the misuse of JT in the ANZAC test) and an intense recruitment campaign from the Tongans. None of the Samoan's in the team have shown any inkling of wanting to leave. I wouldn't think it was anymore than possibly one of many symptoms.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

The Kiwis is a representation of rugby league in NZ, always has been. David Kidwell tried to 'maorify' the team for whatever reason and this is the reason we lost the Tongans.

I have noticed dating back to when Kearney was coach that the team has become increasingly Maori despite the well-known demographics of who actually plays rugby league in NZ. It may have been a subconscious or unintended consequence of trying to create a certain "culture". It may even have simply been a coincidence that certain "types" of players seem to come from certain groups. One example that always pissed me off was that Kearney spent the better part of 5 years repeatedly trying to phase out Manu Vatuvei for whatever plodder he could come up with to replace him. It seems to relate to wanting "tough, gritty" players rather than "flamboyant, talented" players.

Yeah this is very murky territory but it's also interesting AF and largely goes unmentioned.

However, I don't really know if that's actually what happened with Kidwell, or if it was simply some combination of bad coaching and the unstoppable force of Tongan pride.

As a kiwi and a non-Tongan, I'm happy for the Tongans and for their people to watch their team play here in NZ. They've participated immensely to the success of NZ rugby league over the years.

To me this seems contradictory with the rest of your post.

As you say, New Zealanders (NZ born, NZ raised, NZers through and through) of Tongan ethnicity have played a big part in NZ rugby league.

As a Kiwi, I want these guys, who are my fellow Kiwis, to play for our team. Something has gone wrong along the way that these guys don't want to play for THEIR country.

tbh, if these guys want to be Kiwis in every way except playing rugby league for us, it kinda makes sense for us to stop selecting them and ultimately, stop putting NZRL resources into them?

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Do we have any evidence of this? 'Maori-fying' a team doesn't necessarily lead to this situation. The Chiefs were Maori-fied, with a decent number of Tongans, and it was a successful strategy that saw them win two titles and be a regular finalist.

I find it odd that it would drive away JT, Fusitua and Taukeiaho. I thought it was more tied into the coaching (the misuse of JT in the ANZAC test) and an intense recruitment campaign from the Tongans. None of the Samoan's in the team have shown any inkling of wanting to leave. I wouldn't think it was anymore than possibly one of many symptoms.

Did you forget that some of the players were made to sleep on marae floors and that Kidwell favoured Maori players over the in-form players in certain positions (e.g. DWZ over Fusitua)? This is basic knowledge if you TRULY follow the kiwis. The misuse of JT and so many other stuff ups from Kidwell in trying to maorify the team was a proven failure. I predicted the exodus of players before it happened as many on the NZ board of this forum know and that was based on reports coming out of the camp.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

I have noticed dating back to when Kearney was coach that the team has become increasingly Maori despite the well-known demographics of who actually plays rugby league in NZ. It may have been a subconscious or unintended consequence of trying to create a certain "culture". It may even have simply been a coincidence that certain "types" of players seem to come from certain groups. One example that always pissed me off was that Kearney spent the better part of 5 years repeatedly trying to phase out Manu Vatuvei for whatever plodder he could come up with to replace him. It seems to relate to wanting "tough, gritty" players rather than "flamboyant, talented" players.

Yeah this is very murky territory but it's also interesting AF and largely goes unmentioned.

However, I don't really know if that's actually what happened with Kidwell, or if it was simply some combination of bad coaching and the unstoppable force of Tongan pride.



To me this seems contradictory with the rest of your post.

As you say, New Zealanders (NZ born, NZ raised, NZers through and through) of Tongan ethnicity have played a big part in NZ rugby league.

As a Kiwi, I want these guys, who are my fellow Kiwis, to play for our team. Something has gone wrong along the way that these guys don't want to play for THEIR country.

tbh, if these guys want to be Kiwis in every way except playing rugby league for us, it kinda makes sense for us to stop selecting them and ultimately, stop putting NZRL resources into them?

I had no issues with Kearneys selections as Kiwi coach because he picked the best available. If the best is all Maori, then cool pick them, thats fine by me but don't go teaching them Maori culture when they should be learning rugby league. Maybe he tried to get rid of Manu but he picked Manu because he was the best available. If you're born in NZ and you truly are a kiwi, why the hell are you being taught to be a kiwi.

What you interpreted as a contradiction, allow me to clear it up for you. NZRL is rich in Auckland more so than anywhere else in NZ. In Auckland there is a huge number of Polynesians that keep the pulse beating for the sport. If there is NO participation from them, league will be dead in this country. Tongans, Samoans, Rarotongans, Niuans, Fijians have participated to make the game better on and off the field. That is how much they've given to league in NZ. Its not just the Taumalolos, Fusituas, Vatuveis, their participation goes far deeper. Because they've given so much to us, I'm not so greedy and so selfish not to let them have a good team as well. Are you?

Just because we gave them the resources, it doesnt mean they owe us 50 years of their everything because in actual fact we use them more than they use us.

 

[Matua]

Did you forget that some of the players were made to sleep on marae floors and that Kidwell favoured Maori players over the in-form players in certain positions (e.g. DWZ over Fusitua)? This is basic knowledge if you TRULY follow the kiwis. The misuse of JT and so many other stuff ups from Kidwell in trying to maorify the team was a proven failure. I predicted the exodus of players before it happened as many on the NZ board of this forum know and that was based on reports coming out of the camp.

Stop being so shrill. So you're not a Kiwi fan if you're not so close to the team that you know exactly why the Tongans left. Bahahahaha.

That Kidwell was hopeless is not in question, but I doubt he favoured players on their ethnicity, he's just not a good selector or coach.

As I said, no doubt it was a symptom of a dysfunctional team (like it was a symptom of a successful team with the Chiefs) but only one of many. Kidwell not being up to the job is the main reason. If Kidwell had instituted another system of bonding that would have been picked apart as well.

* On being made to sleep on marae floors you sound like you're trying to make it sound like they'd be on the actual floor and not on mattresses. Furthermore if JT, Fusitua and SST quit the Kiwis at the prospect of sleeping on a marae than they need to hand in their man cards.