Bagging League

[ozbash]

I am both a fan of League and Union.

same here,
theres a lot of things about union i dont like and same goes for league.
i think to enjoy any sport (and ive yet to hear of a perfect sport) you have to learn to accept the good with the bad.

i think leagues biggest stumbling block is constantly looking over its shoulder to see what union is doing..

should worry about itself.

 

[tye]

I am a fan of the cronulla sharks, and union. if there were no sharks i wouldnt give a rats arse about league. The super 12s is a great concept great attacking footy and league fans can no longer criticise the defence. The bledisloe is uncompairable nothing beats that. I remember as a young bloke i couldnt wait for the state of origin now i find it to be very boring and a waiste of time for the players.
I dont think their has ever been a better backline in either code than the Auckland Blues backline of 2 years ago....brilliant
realy i dont understand why leagies talk down rugby there is room for both
2005 year of the Sharks and Waratahs

 

[taipan]

I am a fan of the cronulla sharks, and union. if there were no sharks i wouldnt give a rats arse about league. The super 12s is a great concept great attacking footy and league fans can no longer criticise the defence. The bledisloe is uncompairable nothing beats that. I remember as a young bloke i couldnt wait for the state of origin now i find it to be very boring and a waiste of time for the players.
I dont think their has ever been a better backline in either code than the Auckland Blues backline of 2 years ago....brilliant
realy i dont understand why leagies talk down rugby there is room for both
2005 year of the Sharks and Waratahs

The SOO is boring and a waste of time for the players ! Gee the crowds and TV ratings would suggest otherwise.Bill Slater's try brilliant,one of the best individual tries I have seen in both codes . The Cronulla Sharks had some brilliant backlines with Steve Rogers,however I agree with the Auckland Blues backline a good un.I have seen ordinary SOO games just as I have seen some ordinary Bledisloe games.
I agree there is room for both codes,then tell Fitzsimons and Carlton, etc to get the message on bagging league,they dont seem to think there is room for both judging by their ignoramus comments.

 

[tye]

Mate i think the rugby guys are just giving a little back. Union is currently in a great shape it is being played all over the world and teams at each level are getting closer while league keeps shooting itself in the foot. If you were a sponser who would you put your money in. Do you really think slaters try was that good??
I guess it was in the context of the game

 

[Thomas]

Fitzy and Carlton won't stop bagging league because as long as they do, there will be people like you who take what they say seriously.

 

[taipan]

Fitzy and Carlton won't stop bagging league because as long as they do, there will be people like you who take what they say seriously.

If I took them seriously,they wouldnt be called gooses by me.Its the listeners who know little if anything about rugby league that are sucked in,by peddling sometimes rubbish.

 

[taipan]

Mate i think the rugby guys are just giving a little back. Union is currently in a great shape it is being played all over the world and teams at each level are getting closer while league keeps shooting itself in the foot. If you were a sponser who would you put your money in. Do you really think slaters try was that good??
I guess it was in the context of the game

If the rugby union guys are giving a liitle back thats fine,then they shouldnt complain when they get bagged in return.
Union is indeed in great shape,and played in many countries agreed.League is being played in a growing number and the gap is drawing closer between GB ,NZ and Oz,as the tri series has shown apart from the one off final.League in the UK increased participation by 94% in th 2 years to 2004.there are now over 100 amateur teams in the London area alone from sweet nothing a few years back.
Well the sponsors in Oz anyway know where the bigger audience is for their sponsorship or advtg dollar money,crowds up last year,junior participation up 11% ,and rugby league in 5 of the top 10 TV programmes in Sydney last year. Sydney the largest city in Oz.
NZ a different story.
Slater's try if you didnt appreciate that try,I cant help you.Just as I appreciated the crashing try by Lomu in the RUWC in SA. Individual brilliance in a team sport .Of course if the try had been scored in a Bledisloe cup game by Slater it would have been brilliant perhaps ?

 

[rugged]

This stuff is for TFC, not the union forum.

 

[mikdalton]

You guys are all missing the point, popularity certainly does not mean which is the better sport because there is no real comparison. Union has a decent international competition (it still only has about 12 decent standard teams) while league doesn't. This isn't because of unions superiority as a game but because of circumstance. RL was a breakaway game at a time when union was well established all over. Union has money and profile, league doesn't. You'll find people tend to be set in their ways when it comes to sports they are brought up on.

A good example is in England. The Super League and the Zurich Premiership are both competitions with average crowds of about 8500 and have 12 teams in them. Super League is primarily in the north and the ZP primarily in the south. The worst attended team for SL is in London, a development team in RU territory, they get average crowds of 4000. Many London RU clubs get double or treble this. The only other place in England that has a top flight league club and a top flight union club is Leeds. The union club averages 4000 and the League club 16000. Surely if one sport is infinately better then they would have taken over in both of these cities but they havent.

The problem of London is essentially the problem of RL. We have forever been a development sport in places where RU is well established, and due to lack of money, drive and interest they fail to get off the ground. Take South Africa for example, big RU territor with a big international team. If you set up 8 amateur clubs there, people are hardly going to abandon their RU team allegience and go follow these amateur league clubs.

I personally think RL is better and consistently by some way. However I don't see why people bag RU as a game so often as it is so similar to league in many respects. As for this fascinating contest for the ball or whatever it is you can keep it to the traditionalists. The France vs Wales RU game was a great game but people weren't talking about the fascinating contest for possession the next day.

People say RL should just ignore union etc but for most league fans it is the fact that union is bigger that causes the grievance because it is a poorer version of league. Everyday I'll introduce RU loving friends to league and they say league is better. RU has inevitably improved recently but for those who think it is bigger because it is better should look at the games in 1989/90. There was a vast difference in skill and entertainment. I dare any diehard union fan to say union was better then but it was still bigger then.

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

I am a fan of the cronulla sharks, and union. if there were no sharks i wouldnt give a rats arse about league. The super 12s is a great concept great attacking footy and league fans can no longer criticise the defence. The bledisloe is uncompairable nothing beats that. I remember as a young bloke i couldnt wait for the state of origin now i find it to be very boring and a waiste of time for the players.
I dont think their has ever been a better backline in either code than the Auckland Blues backline of 2 years ago....brilliant
realy i dont understand why leagies talk down rugby there is room for both
2005 year of the Sharks and Waratahs

The SOO is boring and a waste of time for the players ! Gee the crowds and TV ratings would suggest otherwise.Bill Slater's try brilliant,one of the best individual tries I have seen in both codes . The Cronulla Sharks had some brilliant backlines with Steve Rogers,however I agree with the Auckland Blues backline a good un.I have seen ordinary SOO games just as I have seen some ordinary Bledisloe games.
I agree there is room for both codes,then tell Fitzsimons and Carlton, etc to get the message on bagging league,they dont seem to think there is room for both judging by their ignoramus comments.

Yes Taipan I'll agree with you on that one . There is room for both codes on this planet .
Carlton and Fitz don't represent the whole rugby union community just like that idiot who is now the CEO of South Sydney doesn't represent league .

I like the Auckland Blues backline of two years ago but the best backline I've seen ever was the Blues backline of 1996-97-98 when Jonah Lomu , Spencer , Clacke , Cashmore , Tonu'u , Stensness , Joeli Vidiri and Brian Lima .

 

[rugged]

RU has inevitably improved recently but for those who think it is bigger because it is better should look at the games in 1989/90. There was a vast difference in skill and entertainment. I dare any diehard union fan to say union was better then but it was still bigger then.

I'll agree with that point that RU is better today than it was in 1989/90 (I've watched old footage and RU in the early part of last century was an absolute snorefest) but IMO in a lot of respects RL was better then too (in the 80's).

IMO the blights on the RL game today are the 5 tackles and kick predictability, the farcical scrums, the joke stripping rule and too many head high tackles.

And IMO the blights on RU are too many penalties and lack of involvement of the backs.

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

RU has inevitably improved recently but for those who think it is bigger because it is better should look at the games in 1989/90. There was a vast difference in skill and entertainment. I dare any diehard union fan to say union was better then but it was still bigger then.

I'll agree with that point that RU is better today than it was in 1989/90 (I've watched old footage and RU in the early part of last century was an absolute snorefest) but IMO in a lot of respects RL was better then too (in the 80's).

IMO the blights on the RL game today are the 5 tackles and kick predictability, the farcical scrums, the joke stripping rule and too many head high tackles.

And IMO the blights on RU are too many penalties and lack of involvement of the backs.

Oh you beat me to it . I agree that rugby union is alot better now because of its RWC and its now a Pro game with lots of money involve .
I like watching rugby league back in the 80s and early 90s . The new league game is not as good as it was back then .
I'll wan't to see Lewis , Price , Sterling , Pearce , Roach etc battling it out for 80 minutes .
Don't like to see forwards coming on for ten minutes and then having a 20 minute spell .

 

[rugged]

At least they would contest the rucks occasionally and try to go for the ball, not "ooh sir, they took the ball off me".

 

[taipan]

Thats why more people are playing league and watching it(even bloody Victorians in the G/F) because its worse than it was in the 80s and 90s.
yeah right.
BTW Roach was replaced in the 1989 G/F against Canberra by Warren Ryan -80 minutes huh ?

Lewis,Price etc are a little old to be playing so instead you have the SBW,Orfords,Lockyers,Bowens,Kimmorleys,Wessers,Slaters,Webke,Wing etc to take their place in a faster, more exciting game.Watching ET in full flight there was no greater sight for me in either code and he could tackle.
The days of collapsed scrums and raking the ball in the play the ball scrappy ,untidy for penalties are over-they can see that in union.The ball is in play much longer now than it was in league in the 80s and 90s so with b..all stoppages,forwards are interchanged - great.
More women watch league live about 43%- more than before,guess they must find it enjoyable.
The game/scrum is not stopped whilst a Sth African forward ties up his shoelaces.
Union has improved as a spectacle(and it damn well needed to)and had to as part of the TV negotiations with SANZAR and the Fox TV organisation.You still get the collapsed scrums 3 in a row at Canberra last weekend, and the scratch your head technical penalties nothing has changed.
league has improved by the sheer fitness,speed of the game, and the full time professionalism that is needed these days.Comments are being made by the likes of Arthur Beetson and others like him,of the ball skills of kids 15 and 16 years of age,which players of 18-20 years of age years ago would be lucky to possess.

 

[rugged]

Australia's population has increased by a third since 1980, so it's only natural that more people watch and play RL now.

League today has become too sanitized and artificial IMO, which is why I like to balance my rugby watching with some RU.

 

[taipan]

Australia's population has increased by a third since 1980, so it's only natural that more people watch and play RL now.

League today has become too sanitized and artificial IMO, which is why I like to balance my rugby watching with some RU.

Population increase has nothing to do with up to 500,00 Vics watching the G/F compared to a couple of years earlier.It has also nothing to do with the increase of women fans as a percentage of fans watching rugby league.Being sanitised in fact may have helped attract women.
The population increase was assisted to a great extent by immigration in those years ,as the Oz birth rate fell..Many of those immigrants would be soccer followers.Probably why soccer at kids level leaves all codes for dead in numbers.
It has more to do with the NRL/ARL getting off their backsides ,and increasing the number of development officers in all states and country areas.The population increase was only part of the equation.
Itry to get a different perspective watching a little union,after seeing Rogers score in South Africa from an obvious forward pass ,nothing has changed,the ref either wants to keep the game flowing or he needs specs, and no one dare criticise after the event.

 

[rugged]

Australia's population has increased by a third since 1980, so it's only natural that more people watch and play RL now.

Actually, I should have said it has increased by 50% as it was 14 mill in 1980 and is now 20 mill.

As for all the rest you said, that is all true. I'll just add that lots of other sports have increased to the same extent.

 

[gaterooze]

League today has become too sanitized and artificial IMO, which is why I like to balance my rugby watching with some RU.

Dude, seriously, in what way has RU not become "sanitized and artificial?"

I know what you're saying with League, and I agree to part of it -- though personally I reckon the higher skill and better action makes up for it.

But modern Union, or at least Super 12, is basically what Super League would have become if Murdoch had won. I mean, what could be more artificial than awarding "bonus points" for scoring 4 or more tries?

 

[rugged]

I mean, what could be more artificial than awarding "bonus points" for scoring 4 or more tries?

Der, I mean the gameplay itself.

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

Australia's population has increased by a third since 1980, so it's only natural that more people watch and play RL now.

League today has become too sanitized and artificial IMO, which is why I like to balance my rugby watching with some RU.

Population increase has nothing to do with up to 500,00 Vics watching the G/F compared to a couple of years earlier.It has also nothing to do with the increase of women fans as a percentage of fans watching rugby league.Being sanitised in fact may have helped attract women.
The population increase was assisted to a great extent by immigration in those years ,as the Oz birth rate fell..Many of those immigrants would be soccer followers.Probably why soccer at kids level leaves all codes for dead in numbers.
It has more to do with the NRL/ARL getting off their backsides ,and increasing the number of development officers in all states and country areas.The population increase was only part of the equation.
Itry to get a different perspective watching a little union,after seeing Rogers score in South Africa from an obvious forward pass ,nothing has changed,the ref either wants to keep the game flowing or he needs specs, and no one dare criticise after the event.

I wasn't using Roach so you could spent a whole weekend to see if he was sub off or not .
I use Roach , Price and gang to show you what sort of athlete they were compare to the current crops .
I still enjoy watching the 80s league more . Than to see guys been sub on and off like a game of touch rugby .
All sports are increasing thanks to the large populations , televisions , money and all your reasons above .
Alot of immigrants are also from NZ , Pacific Islands , South Africa and UK and most of them are not into soccer .

So Mat Rogers scoring a try from a forward pass is a conspiracy from the IRB to let the game flow ?
I've seen worse forward pass in the NRL games than from S12 games and if anyone needs specs .
I suppose the NRL can afford to buy some for their video refs who seem to make Stevie Wonder look better .