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Burt v Hayne - The Stats

Stagger eel

Stagger eel

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Staff member
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65,494
lewiscook said:
no i wouldn't
id say that he's an outstanding winger,
who will if given the chance flourish at fullback.
Click to expand...

yeah, but the question still remnains are we a poorer team without Burt there? given that he's played over 150 fg games and has played first grade under 4 fg coach's??

I still scratch my head at people who blame him for our downfall and yet he's continually picked.
 
bartman

bartman

Immortal
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41,022
1. Burt
4. Hayne

Best combination for the team at the moment, regardless of the individual stats. Our defence has been strong this season (Jarryd in teh front line, and Burt talking in the back) - why change it when we don't need to?

With inexperience in the halves again, we need an experienced head at the back. Jarryd's attacking talent can play as much of a role at centre as it did at five-eighth, or would at fullback.
 
lewiscook

lewiscook

Juniors
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1,045
Stagger eel said:
yeah, but the question still remnains are we a poorer team without Burt there? given that he's played over 150 fg games and has played first grade under 4 fg coach's??

I still scratch my head at people who blame him for our downfall and yet he's continually picked.
Click to expand...


i agree with you 100%
i just think from what we have seen of hayne at fullback, hes probably the better option...
but the question does still remain, whats burt doing wrong? and the answer to that is not alot, but along with that he isn't really producing the kind of opportunities as hayne would.
 
Stagger eel

Stagger eel

Moderator
Staff member
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65,494
lewiscook said:
i agree with you 100%
i just think from what we have seen of hayne at fullback, hes probably the better option...
but the question does still remain, whats burt doing wrong? and the answer to that is not alot, but along with that he isn't really producing the kind of opportunities as hayne would.
Click to expand...


I don't think anyone is questioning who's a better a fullback, I just think that it's a better balanced side with both in there.
 
C

caylo

Bench
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4,870
Hollywood Jesus said:
Hahahahahahahaha - the stats don't lie!
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In 2008 Hayne played 6 games and burt played 18 games at fullback. from those 18 games, the stats averages are:

Burt; 7.5 runs, 68.6 meters, 1.9 tackles, 34 kick return meters, and 3 tackle breaks per game. Burt did kick 1 40/20 in 18 games.

Hayne; 15.8 runs 139.5 meters, 5.3 tackles, 50 kick return meters and 6 tackles breaks per game. Hayne did not kick a 40/20 in 6 games.

realistically Hayne ran the ball back more than twice as much, and made more than twice as many meters, also beat defenders twice as much. Hayne made more tackles per game and actually missed less tackles then Burt. Yes stats don't lie

BUT

I will agree that ATM Burt at fullback and Hayne in the centres is the best thing for the team. When Richardson is fit, I would liek to see anderson elevate him into the centre and given a go. Burt has played well enough atm, I though his game against the dragons he actually ran the ball back well and so is doing enough not to get dropped. If his performances do waver thou and Richardson can play well then I would not hesitate to drop Burt.
 
Hollywood Jesus

Hollywood Jesus

Coach
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11,677
lewiscook said:
but along with that he isn't really producing the kind of opportunities as hayne would.
Click to expand...

I disagree. His second man play produces more opportunities than HaHa would - anywhere. This has nothing to do with Burt or HaHa, but more that a fullback gets to run the ball back once per set whereas a second man can chime in repeatedly during a set.

Put Burt on the wing and there goes our best second man. Get rid of him altogether and it's the same deal.

People say HaHa should be put where he wants to be - at the back. I disagree and say our play should be structured more around those who have shown they can play ball - Burt and KK, with Mateo up the middle.
 
Hollywood Jesus

Hollywood Jesus

Coach
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11,677
caylo said:
realistically Hayne ran the ball back more than twice as much, and made more than twice as many meters, also beat defenders twice as much. Hayne made more tackles per game and actually missed less tackles then Burt. Yes stats don't lie
Click to expand...

People who rely on this stat show they don't understand football. A fullback can be much more valuable to a team than a simply a kick returner.

The way we have been coached this year has produced almost zero attacking structure. This needs to be changed and our game needs to be more focused around those who have shown they can actually play ball and not just run it i.e. Burt, KK and Mateo.
 
parra-matters

parra-matters

Coach
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13,874
Burt is a true clubman but as stated earlier since his knee injury he has not been as effective. 1. He doesn't follow the forwards looking for offloads like he once did.
2. His defence is not as solid, he seems to hang back and wait instead of moving in to shut it down. 3. lets too many kicks bounce when he could take them on the full.
4. Doesn't join in the backline on tackle 3 or 4 when the backs are deep and looking to run around the defence, meaning we get hammered where he he joined in made the extra man we could have created a overlap.
I'm not saying Hayne is a better option i'm just saying what I have noticed has changed in Burt's game and things that would help the team if he brought them back into his game.
 
Hollywood Jesus

Hollywood Jesus

Coach
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11,677
I guess he lied then if he did.

If that was true and HaHa got shafted from five-eighth, why isn't he at the back? Maybe because Burt deserves to be there?
 
L

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,319
Stagger eel said:
I don't think anyone is questioning who's a better a fullback, I just think that it's a better balanced side with both in there.
Click to expand...

Yep. That`s the answer to the question posed at the start of this thread. Who would be the better full-back? Probably Jarryd Hayne. But, of course, that`s not really the issue. The issue is: if Hayne were to play fullback now, Burt would not be the answer at wing or centre (too small.) So we`d have to drop him. And THAT would weaken the team, because we don`t have another outside back at present to take that other wing or centre position. Hence, keep Burt where he is; keep Hayne in the centres for now, and handle it.
And I`ll say it again - the experiment with Hayne at five-eight was inconclusive. It needs to be done again with Hayne outside a far better half than Brett Finch.
 
L

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,319
caylo said:
In 2008 Hayne played 6 games and burt played 18 games at fullback. from those 18 games, the stats averages are:

Burt; 7.5 runs, 68.6 meters, 1.9 tackles, 34 kick return meters, and 3 tackle breaks per game. Burt did kick 1 40/20 in 18 games.

Hayne; 15.8 runs 139.5 meters, 5.3 tackles, 50 kick return meters and 6 tackles breaks per game. Hayne did not kick a 40/20 in 6 games.

realistically Hayne ran the ball back more than twice as much, and made more than twice as many meters, also beat defenders twice as much. Hayne made more tackles per game and actually missed less tackles then Burt. Yes stats don't lie

BUT

I will agree that ATM Burt at fullback and Hayne in the centres is the best thing for the team. When Richardson is fit, I would liek to see anderson elevate him into the centre and given a go. Burt has played well enough atm, I though his game against the dragons he actually ran the ball back well and so is doing enough not to get dropped. If his performances do waver thou and Richardson can play well then I would not hesitate to drop Burt.
Click to expand...

Do you have the stats on tries for that year? I seem to recall Burt scoring a few tries with his support play.
 
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