Burt v Hayne - The Stats

[The Colonel]

Hayne is one of most talented players, utilize him more, play to his strengths.

So back to the wing then? ;-)

 

[Twizzle]

well open your eyes up and stop focusing on my posts, ele, HJ have also demonstrated affection for Burt.

And besides, why should it matter to you or anyone else whether i'm 'jerking off over hayne' is it not allowed? i see plenty of it on this forum in relation to various players. Hayne is one of most talented players, utilize him more, play to his strengths.

focusing ?

hardly

dont flatter yourself, I made one comment compared to your hundreds

your hero worship is mind boggling

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

But you're saying that we need Burt to run a second man play. And then you're admitting that we're unable.

I'm hinting that maybe we're unable because SuperCoach DA is a crock...

Just watch an Eels game and tell me we don't look more dangerous when he plays as a second receiver.

Hayne doesn't do the same job at fullback. He also doesn't support the ball runner as much.

These things cannot be judged by stats. You have to look at the games and see that Hayne goes missing as a second receiver and looked more at home when running the ball at centre. Fullback is a ball distributor nowadays and Burt is superior in this role. I wish 5 years ago someone would have given Burt the number 6 and let him play second receiver.

Exactly.

If, as someone said after the above quoted post, Hayne is such a great ball distributor, then where was this throughout the first 4 games of the year? One pass that led to a try from our ball-distributing five-eighth in four games? He got his hands on the ball plenty of times so where were the passes, the tries?

Burt's a bloody fullback and has thrown those passes already this year.

ffs Ron, why dont you just get down on your knees and blow him

He seriously would if he had the opportunity.

*****

Once again, the proof is in the pudding.

Burt has shown he can play second man, something HaHa had four games as an actual five-eighth to do yet failed abysmally (despite getting his hands on the ball plenty of times).

We all know Burt can kick, yet in four games HaHa put up one nice bomb and that was it. Not ever has he shown he can be a reliable kicker and we all know Burt can kick 40-20s.

Anyone who actually pays attention to our fullback when we're defending knows that Burt is a fantastic communicator - even so much that he did the talking for HaHa when HaHa was playing at the back.

HaHa has shown nothing since his first year. Nothing.

In my opinion we should be running this side:

1. Reddy
2. HaHa
3. Smith
4. Inu
5. Grothe
6. Burt
7. KK

13. Mateo

 

[Bazal]

not all, i can see why all the coaches have chosen burt at fb, to accomodate him, he's a useless centre, average winger, but his best form has been at fullback. Hayne is a super athlete with immesnse skills, hence why he's being used all over the park, DA has stated that himself, to give hayne as much ball as possible.


What I and others know, is that Hayne will be the fullback either by the end of the season or next year.

For the balance of the side Burt is fb, we all know that, however we dont wanna see another Mckinnon episode, and i'm sure you'd agree that Mckinnon was better however Burt was chosen ahead of him?

The way I see it is this...Anderson is not going to throw an untested back into the fire, Burt is in better form than most of our team, and Hayne has failed at 6 and been in worse form than Burt, Grothe and Reddy who are first three backs picked at the moment IMO. Which leaves us (without dropping Inu, which is a seperate issue) with these combinations. Which is better?

A) 1-Burt 2-Reddy 3-B Smith 4-Inu 5-Grothe
B) 1-Burt 2-Reddy 3-Hayne 4-Inu 5-Grothe
C) 1-Hayne 2-Burt 3-Reddy 4-Inu 5-Grothe
D) 1-Hayne 2-Reddy 3-Burt 4-Inu 5-Grothe

Surely it's B? The simple fact is that when the team goes well, Burt is an excellent fullback...and that at the moment who our fullback is makes absolutely no difference to our chances of winning. We need to look up front and in the halves for the areas that we can improve to help our chances of winning. Put Hayne there with our halves and forwards, and half the bandwagon calling for Burt's head will be calling for Jarryd's in 6 weeks. No fullback will do well behind what we have in front of them at the moment.

Ultimately, Hayne has yet to prove himself as anything more than a prodigiously talented winger, the same argument you use against Inu as centre. Hayne as never proven himself in any position other than the wing. Sure, he had one 10/10 game (as voted by judges that often make some baffling judgements, mind you) at the end of 2007...but it was against the worst Brisbane side in recent memory, behind a pack that was winning the battle with ease and a half and five-eighth who were absolutely outstanding that day. He also had a hell of a lot of problems running the ball back, one of the major criticisms of Burt. I believe that Hayne is a worse kick returner based on what he's shown thus far, he runs it back like a dancer not a fullback. At least Burt knows that it's not his strength and gives the ball to guys who are good at it, like Grothe and Reddy.

Burt has, at the end of the day, proven more in first grade for this club than Hayne has. I don't think there's anyone who denies that Hayne is an amazingly talented player (except maybe old Mr Saab, but we all know he's a dribbling idiot) and he is a great chance of being our long term fullback, but at the moment he hasn't earnt the right to oust Burt. Burt was outstanding at the back at the start of 2003 before suffering a long term injury that kept him out for the best part of that season and the next. He was good enough to keep McKinnon out at the back end of 2006 on form, and had a blinder of a year in 2007 before injury. Hayne, on the other hand, had a great half season ON THE WING in 2006, had a very good most of a year in the same position in 2007, and several good games following several poor games at fullback in the same year. They were both very average in 2008 in a very poor side, and Burt has started better than Hayne this year. So the question that needs to be asked is why should Hayne oust Burt at this stage? The team as a whole is going poorly and will for most of the year...Burt has proved more, and we need Hayne in the three quarter line at the moment, so Burt deserves to stay at 1. Hayne needs to earn the right to oust Burt, it's as simple as that, and for mine he'll get his chance to do just that next year when we have a side that looks more like a contender and we can see what they each have to offer in a good side. At the moment, we gain nothing from putting him there because the engine room and the halves are very problematic...

 

[Raudonikis]

The way I see it is this...Anderson is not going to throw an untested back into the fire, Burt is in better form than most of our team, and Hayne has failed at 6 and been in worse form than Burt, Grothe and Reddy who are first three backs picked at the moment IMO. Which leaves us (without dropping Inu, which is a seperate issue) with these combinations. Which is better?

A) 1-Burt 2-Reddy 3-B Smith 4-Inu 5-Grothe
B) 1-Burt 2-Reddy 3-Hayne 4-Inu 5-Grothe
C) 1-Hayne 2-Burt 3-Reddy 4-Inu 5-Grothe
D) 1-Hayne 2-Reddy 3-Burt 4-Inu 5-Grothe

Surely it's B? The simple fact is that when the team goes well, Burt is an excellent fullback...and that at the moment who our fullback is makes absolutely no difference to our chances of winning. We need to look up front and in the halves for the areas that we can improve to help our chances of winning. Put Hayne there with our halves and forwards, and half the bandwagon calling for Burt's head will be calling for Jarryd's in 6 weeks. No fullback will do well behind what we have in front of them at the moment.

Ultimately, Hayne has yet to prove himself as anything more than a prodigiously talented winger, the same argument you use against Inu as centre. Hayne as never proven himself in any position other than the wing. Sure, he had one 10/10 game (as voted by judges that often make some baffling judgements, mind you) at the end of 2007...but it was against the worst Brisbane side in recent memory, behind a pack that was winning the battle with ease and a half and five-eighth who were absolutely outstanding that day. He also had a hell of a lot of problems running the ball back, one of the major criticisms of Burt. I believe that Hayne is a worse kick returner based on what he's shown thus far, he runs it back like a dancer not a fullback. At least Burt knows that it's not his strength and gives the ball to guys who are good at it, like Grothe and Reddy.

Burt has, at the end of the day, proven more in first grade for this club than Hayne has. I don't think there's anyone who denies that Hayne is an amazingly talented player (except maybe old Mr Saab, but we all know he's a dribbling idiot) and he is a great chance of being our long term fullback, but at the moment he hasn't earnt the right to oust Burt. Burt was outstanding at the back at the start of 2003 before suffering a long term injury that kept him out for the best part of that season and the next. He was good enough to keep McKinnon out at the back end of 2006 on form, and had a blinder of a year in 2007 before injury. Hayne, on the other hand, had a great half season ON THE WING in 2006, had a very good most of a year in the same position in 2007, and several good games following several poor games at fullback in the same year. They were both very average in 2008 in a very poor side, and Burt has started better than Hayne this year. So the question that needs to be asked is why should Hayne oust Burt at this stage? The team as a whole is going poorly and will for most of the year...Burt has proved more, and we need Hayne in the three quarter line at the moment, so Burt deserves to stay at 1. Hayne needs to earn the right to oust Burt, it's as simple as that, and for mine he'll get his chance to do just that next year when we have a side that looks more like a contender and we can see what they each have to offer in a good side. At the moment, we gain nothing from putting him there because the engine room and the halves are very problematic...

Yep well said Bazil,Hayne burst onto the scene,got his contract,and hes done very little since...When he has played 10 yrs at the top like burt i will rate him,but at the moment he is a winger who thinks he is better than he is and his coaches think he is better than he is.prob cos he tells them lol.

 

[Stagger eel]

just out of interest, Hayne scored a couple of intercept tries this year but can anyone actually remember any line breaks that he's made so far?

 

[hineyrulz]

Burt 10 years at the top LOL, what is being a honest first grader at the top?????? 10 years and no rep games, FACT!! Hayne has played 5 origin games and a test for Australia before his 21st birthday, FACT!!

 

[yy_cheng]

just out of interest, Hayne scored a couple of intercept tries this year but can anyone actually remember any line breaks that he's made so far?

Yup last week. Made a bust.

 

[Raudonikis]

Burt 10 years at the top LOL, what is being a honest first grader at the top?????? 10 years and no rep games, FACT!! Hayne has played 5 origin games and a test for Australia before his 21st birthday, FACT!!

Luke has played first grade for 10 yrs is what i meant,and yes that means at the top levell,what is it that you dont understand about that?

 

[hineyrulz]

Luke has played first grade for 10 yrs is what i meant,and yes that means at the top levell,what is it that you dont understand about that?

Mate the top in your sport is playing for your country and your state, something Burt has never done all has ever got close in doing. Something Hayne has done before his 21st birthday. Burt hasn't even cracked it for Country, this year he has played pretty well. But i just feel we could be so much a better footy side with Hayne at the back.

 

[Raudonikis]

\so what are they? only stats i care about are win/loss as welll defense/offense, last i saw Hayne was far superior?

ele join the brigade quickly cause like a porno u know whats happning in the end

You were up till the early hours thinking about Jarryd, Ron i hope you werent thinking about him when u hopped into bed and looking at his posters on your ceiling..

 

[lingard]

kinda funny then in that Hayne has almost as many wins as burt in half the games dont you think? also funny how we also score and conceade less points, add that to the fact that Hayne is generally a more gifted fullback and has performed in finals at that position for Parramatta and played rep football, there simply is no comparison.

So in this instance, yes, stats dont lie!

I`m not saying one is better than the other at fullback, but Hayne has only played fullback when Parramatta has been playing well; but Burt has played fullback when the whole team has been playing sh*t-house as well.
Yes, Hayne is probably the better player (well, he`s a lot younger and bigger for a start), but this whole idea that Hayne was amazing at the end of `07, is a myth. He wasn`t any better than Burt. Burt had a fantastic year, before being injured. The media certainly built Hayne up and called him the next big thing, and some Parra fans got carried away with it. But they do that, don`t they? They built Finch up recently, too. Hayne is a good player, but was slightly over-rated in `07, I think.

 

[Stagger eel]

Yup last week. Made a bust.

that's right, late in the game...i thought that was a half break tbh...

any others??

 

[lingard]

As I've already said, put Burt to five-eighth. We can still use his other invaluable skills there - kicking and second man play (which no one else in the team can do).

Get rid of Burt and you get rid of our only second man, our only chance for a 40-20 and a decent back up kicker, not to mention our #1 goalkicker. He can still do all of these things at 6.

We can then put Mateo into 13 and shove him up the middle in heavy traffic or just off the fringes where his offloads work best and where he can start the second phase.

Worried about defense? Chuck Hindmarsh next to him on one side and another decent defender on the other. Happens with a lot five-eighths so no problem there.

Well, Keating is good at second man play; Inu is a reliable goal-kicker (and it might boost his confidence if he had another role to play); and 40-20`s are a fairly rare play anyway. But my main objection to Burt playing five-eight, is not his defence, but his attack. Your five-eight needs to be able to take the line on - and to occasionally break the line and then offload or kick. I can`t see Burt doing that at all.

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

Well, Keating is good at second man play; Inu is a reliable goal-kicker (and it might boost his confidence if he had another role to play); and 40-20`s are a fairly rare play anyway. But my main objection to Burt playing five-eight, is not his defence, but his attack. Your five-eight needs to be able to take the line on - and to occasionally break the line and then offload or kick. I can`t see Burt doing that at all.

Your five-eighth doesn't need to be able to take the line on so much if the half does - so that depends on who we end up with at 7.

Still, giving Burt the line after offloads might be different to him taking the line on coming back from a kick, you never know.

I mean, DA gave Hayne 4 terrible games at five-eighth. Could Burt be any worse? Throwing Burt into 6 would also mean Mateo could move back the middle and do what he does best - offload in traffic and create second phase play for the likes of Burt to work with. We saw last year how much better our forward pack is with Mateo running around in the 13.

that's right, late in the game...i thought that was a half break tbh...

any others??

Didn't he drop the ball, though? Or was that another one?

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

Something Hayne has done before his 21st birthday.

And if Hayne never does it again (that's my guess) he'll be nothing but a flash in the pan and will not compare to someone like Burt who has held strong for a decade.

 

[lingard]

No. Not at all.

People consistently put him in the cro of next superstars - the Folaus, the Ingliss, the Jenningss, etc. when he has proven on a consistent basis he is nothing more than a good winger.

Sure, he had a 10 out of 10 performance at fullback a few years ago.

(1) Against who was it? A really, really bad Broncos team.

(2) How long did it take him to finally pull the finger out and do well there?

(3) If he's so 'super talented' how come he couldn't make a fist of it at centre? You can use the 'he never got good ball' excuse if you like, but he did get quality ball on plenty of occassions and did nothing.

He's talented, sure. But super talented? No way.

That`s it in a nut-shell. I reckon Parramatta fans - perhaps more than any other fans - build their young players up so much, so early, to be the 'next superstars', and either want to hold on to the myth for grim death, or crucify the player concerned for not living up to that impossible expectation. Leave poor old Hayne alone. He`s a pretty good player, who will probably get better as the team gets better. But he aint no 'super-star.'

 

[hineyrulz]

And if Hayne never does it again (that's my guess) he'll be nothing but a flash in the pan and will not compare to someone like Burt who has held strong for a decade.

Strong and Burt in the same sentence LOL.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

I`m not saying one is better than the other at fullback, but Hayne has only played fullback when Parramatta has been playing well; but Burt has played fullback when the whole team has been playing sh*t-house as well.
Yes, Hayne is probably the better player (well, he`s a lot younger and bigger for a start), but this whole idea that Hayne was amazing at the end of `07, is a myth. He wasn`t any better than Burt. Burt had a fantastic year, before being injured. The media certainly built Hayne up and called him the next big thing, and some Parra fans got carried away with it. But they do that, don`t they? They built Finch up recently, too. Hayne is a good player, but was slightly over-rated in `07, I think.

i stopped reading after that, if you did your research Hayne was made fb BOTH TIMES when we were struggling, and coincidently we played alo better when he was moved there.

Hayne is not overrated, he's being used all over the place apart from his prefered position.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

And if Hayne never does it again (that's my guess) he'll be nothing but a flash in the pan and will not compare to someone like Burt who has held strong for a decade.

Burt, up until 2006 was a struggling to maintain his spot on the wing:lol: