Can we all agree Brian Smith didn't do a very good job with the rebuilding

[reginald.p]

So after 3 years of hearing Brian Smith is "rebuilding" and "we are a young team" and "next year we will be premiership contenders" etc. Brian Smiths "rebuilt" team is now one of the oldest in the NRL and favourites for the spoon. Lets take a look at all his signings back in 2007.


Luke MacDougall Played what 1 game in 3 years? would have to be one of the worst signings in NRL history

Chris Houston - Enough said.
Danny Wicks - Enough said.
Cameron Ciraldo - Ordinay backup player
Keith Lulia - Ordinay backup player
Wes Naiqama - Ordinay backup player
Cooper Vuna - Ok fringe first grade player.
Ben Cross - Played about 7 games each year, Has been good when he has played but not good value for money.

Richard Fa'aoso - Bench player who drops the ball a lot. One of our best signings
Matt Hilder - Pretty good but really just a bench player.
Junior Sau - Solid without being brilliant
Zeb Taia - Pretty good probably our best signing But still hasn't even made a rep side.

Now lets look at the "deadwood" they replaced.

Matthew Gidley
Danny Buderus
Josh Perry - Went on to win a premiership and play for Australia. How many of our new signings have played for Australia again?

Anthony Quinn - Went on to play for NSW. Sure am glad we got rid of all these rep players.

Clint Newton - Good enough to make the Melbourne Storms starting lineup and win a premiership but apparently not good enough to get a bench spot here over Cameron Ciraldo and Wes Naiqama.

Kade Snowden - yeah Sure am glad we got rid of this guy. Will Probably end up playing for Australia

Todd Lowrie - Yeah thats right Todd Lowrie. I remember when i first came hear a few years Ago people would not shut up about Todd Lowrie and Reegan Tanner people acted like Hagan picking tanner and lowrie was the most disgraceful thing to ever happen. apparently the player clean out was entirely justified because Hagan dared to pick Tanner and Lowrie. Brian Smith was automatically a better Choice then Hagan because he would never pick hacks like lowrie right? hahaha well now Lowrie is in the starting line up at the Melbourne storm and playing better then almost every one of our new recruits haha.


Oh and i haven't even gotten to the worst thing Brian Smith has done. in 2007 his job was to prepare for life after Joey. Four years later and who do we have playing halfback? Scott Dureau.

 

[Baron Vo Mandor]

I have to disagree on paper we have a good enough team to comfortably make the top 8, and under Smith we saw how good they could be.

Unfortunately under our current regime....... Well the results speak for themselves.

 

[Misanthrope]

You lost what little credibility your post had when you mentioned Todd Lowrie. A turd looks half decent playing for the Storm, and Lowrie hasn't looked that great.

 

[roopy]

Some of our recruits seem to be players who need firm guidelines to play well.
Some players like Scotty, Pato, Simmo and Uate have thrived without Smith's 'yoke' around their necks, but Taia, Faas, Mullo, Vuna all seem a bit lost now that they are not being micro managed by the coach.
I think Kurt will take control and get guys moving when he comes back.

 

[Hanscholo]

So after 3 years of hearing Brian Smith is "rebuilding" and "we are a young team" and "next year we will be premiership contenders" etc. Brian Smiths "rebuilt" team is now one of the oldest in the NRL and favourites for the spoon. Lets take a look at all his signings back in 2007.


Luke MacDougall Played what 1 game in 3 years? would have to be one of the worst signings in NRL history

Chris Houston - Enough said.
Danny Wicks - Enough said.
Cameron Ciraldo - Ordinay backup player
Keith Lulia - Ordinay backup player
Wes Naiqama - Ordinay backup player
Cooper Vuna - Ok fringe first grade player.
Ben Cross - Played about 7 games each year, Has been good when he has played but not good value for money.

Richard Fa'aoso - Bench player who drops the ball a lot. One of our best signings
Matt Hilder - Pretty good but really just a bench player.
Junior Sau - Solid without being brilliant
Zeb Taia - Pretty good probably our best signing But still hasn't even made a rep side.

Now lets look at the "deadwood" they replaced.

Matthew Gidley
Danny Buderus
Josh Perry - Went on to win a premiership and play for Australia. How many of our new signings have played for Australia again?

Anthony Quinn - Went on to play for NSW. Sure am glad we got rid of all these rep players.

Clint Newton - Good enough to make the Melbourne Storms starting lineup and win a premiership but apparently not good enough to get a bench spot here over Cameron Ciraldo and Wes Naiqama.

Kade Snowden - yeah Sure am glad we got rid of this guy. Will Probably end up playing for Australia

Todd Lowrie - Yeah thats right Todd Lowrie. I remember when i first came hear a few years Ago people would not shut up about Todd Lowrie and Reegan Tanner people acted like Hagan picking tanner and lowrie was the most disgraceful thing to ever happen. apparently the player clean out was entirely justified because Hagan dared to pick Tanner and Lowrie. Brian Smith was automatically a better Choice then Hagan because he would never pick hacks like lowrie right? hahaha well now Lowrie is in the starting line up at the Melbourne storm and playing better then almost every one of our new recruits haha.


Oh and i haven't even gotten to the worst thing Brian Smith has done. in 2007 his job was to prepare for life after Joey. Four years later and who do we have playing halfback? Scott Dureau.

Firstly, Let me address your deadwood.

Gidley, was already going.
Buderus, clearly states in his book his intentions of leaving to play in England well before Smith ever came along.
Quinn signed with Melbourne while Hagan was here.
Kade Snowden will have "was going to play for australia" as his epitpah.
Clint Newton left of his own accord because he wasnt getting enough attention.
Josh Perry needed to be moved on. Never did anything for the club, played a few decent games for manly, and has done noting since. I dont think i am alone in wishing he'd gone sooner.

By the way, those superstars precided over the worst period in the clubs history. The longest losing streak, and a wooden spoon.

They werent the only ones that left either. Lets not forget Kirk Reynoldson and his 250k a year uberness.

As for who he brought in, sure a lot of them didnt work out, but they didnt all need to work out. The side made the semi finals last season, and narrowly missed the season prior. We were wooden spooners before Smith arrived.

Of the players he brought in only Wicks and Macdougall were a huge let down. MacDougall was injured for the entire time and Wicks was a gamble on a talented youngster that didnt pay off, it happens. Houston was a huge success for the club, its not smith's fault the guy got caught up in what he did. Cross was constantly injured, and in terms of what we needed at the time - he was the right person to buy. It hasnt worked out with him either, but that is largely due to injuries.

Richard Fa'aoso, Matt Hilder, Junior Sau, Zeb Taia and Cooper Vuna have all been oustanding. I think your reaching if you want to suggest they havent worked out, or arent that great because they have all put in for the club and deserve kudos for it.

Cameron Ciraldo snapped his f**king leg in half, and up until that point was coming on well.

Get used to hearing "rebuilding", "we are a young team", "next year we will be premiership contenders". you can add "Rookie Coach" to the list. You will be hearing those words over and over for the next 10 years because we undertook a rebuilding phase, and got out of it at the cheapest and earliest point possible.

As for Todd Lowrie, he was a huge talent as a youngster and was totally mishandled by the club and turned out to be a very ordinary first grader. It took him two seasons to come on at parramatta, and it took daniel Anderson to do it. The parra fans wanted to kill the bloke when Hagan was there. So giving Hagan a wrap for Lowrie is drawing one hell of a long bow mate. Perhaps if he'd of had the kind of coaching required back in his early years at Newcastle he would still be here. Its certainly no wrap to Hagan that the bloke struggled under his coaching year in and year out, then suddenly massively developed under Anderson. You can add him to Ennis and Bird as players that went nowhere in that era that went on to become fantastic footballers.

The results imo, speak for themself. We were last, we became semi finalists. On the field visually, the change in the side was remarkable. We went from a nothing style of football to a bright, open, hard running style of football.

Of all the criticisms labelled at Smith I can really only say that Dureau and our lack of replacement for Johns was the biggest issue. In saying that, did Smith get the opportunity to do something about it when it became apparent Dureau was not going to make it? No, he was moved on before that. Have the current management done anything about it other than announcing we are signing 'x' only to be laughed at? No, they had the entire off season to plan for that, with a lot of money to do it with and they did nothing.

The current state of the club is the responsibility of the CEO and the board. Imo, Smith's tenure was successful. If you want to do something to sort the club out try focusing some of your frustration at the guys who deserve it, because this club will continue to slide until we get rid of the absolute morons running it.

 

[macavity]

He did what he always does - he built a club that almost entirely relies on him to keep it together.

His teams always fall apart when he leaves. He comes in and flushes the club - and when he leaves, the club needs to be flushed again.

We now have about half a dozen players who will probably never play as good again as they did in 2009.

 

[Newie is God's Country]

We all know that deep down we wish he was still here.

 

[BG]

Sau: Signed for around $10k; has played for NZ.

Taia: Reserve-grader at the Eels, cheap pick-up; yet evolved last year into one of the most damaging fringe runners in the NRL.

Faas: Same as Taia at the Eels; but was bordering on SOO selection for Qld last year.

De Gois: Started every single game for us last year (shame he ran on for the last one #-o). With Bedsy we were looking at an undoubted champion, but an ageing one who was lucky to play half-a-season on one leg for probably 50% more money than De Gois.

Hilder: Came down cheaply from the Tits, and has been an outstanding and utterly reliable contributor to the team.

Cross: Not cheap, but neither was Perry. Cross is better imho, but obviously we haven't got value out of him due to injury.

Ciraldo: Bought at minimum wage, and towards the end of 2008 was showing real potential. Reports suggested he had a huge off-season 2008-09 and he was looking an absolute bargain before that horrible injury. May still get there.

Vuna: There might be chinks in his game, but he has also done some brilliant things for a cheap, speculative pick-up from across the Tasman.

McDonnell: May not be a world beater, but surprising his numerous critics all the same. Doubt we're paying him squillions.

Mad Dog: How many people thought he still had it in him to play as well as he did last year?

Mad Pup: Terrible luck with injury.

Houston: Purely on the footy side of things: ended his stint at Saints in reserves; became a very solid NRL player for us.

Wicks: In solitary :sarcasm: as the star exhibit for the Smith critics.


In contrast, where are Reynoldson, Brown, Abraham, Woolnough, Carmont, Tanner... ?

 

[Joker's Wild]

Good post BG.

 

[roopy]

Smith did the job he was paid to do and did it well.
I never agreed with it - but once the club went that way we were all along for the ride, and he did exactly what he said he would do in the way he said he would do it.

I'd have gone down the keeping the band together route, and tried to convince all our local guys to take a paycut - but the club went the other way and now it's history.
We have a lot of good players on the books at the right price, and if we can keep value for salary cap we will go OK.
Having said that, the players who are our future are named Cook, Finn, Tetevano, Sullivan, Mata'utia x 4, and Justin Smith - not to mention big Jeremy Ma'a - pencil him in for 2012.

 

[Knightmare]

Phil Rothfield, is that you?

 

[Matt23]

I stopped reading after he mentioned that merkin Newton

 

[reginald.p]

Sau: Signed for around $10k; has played for NZ.

Taia: Reserve-grader at the Eels, cheap pick-up; yet evolved last year into one of the most damaging fringe runners in the NRL.

Faas: Same as Taia at the Eels; but was bordering on SOO selection for Qld last year.

De Gois: Started every single game for us last year (shame he ran on for the last one #-o). With Bedsy we were looking at an undoubted champion, but an ageing one who was lucky to play half-a-season on one leg for probably 50% more money than De Gois.

Hilder: Came down cheaply from the Tits, and has been an outstanding and utterly reliable contributor to the team.

Cross: Not cheap, but neither was Perry. Cross is better imho, but obviously we haven't got value out of him due to injury.

Ciraldo: Bought at minimum wage, and towards the end of 2008 was showing real potential. Reports suggested he had a huge off-season 2008-09 and he was looking an absolute bargain before that horrible injury. May still get there.

Vuna: There might be chinks in his game, but he has also done some brilliant things for a cheap, speculative pick-up from across the Tasman.

McDonnell: May not be a world beater, but surprising his numerous critics all the same. Doubt we're paying him squillions.

Mad Dog: How many people thought he still had it in him to play as well as he did last year?

Mad Pup: Terrible luck with injury.

Houston: Purely on the footy side of things: ended his stint at Saints in reserves; became a very solid NRL player for us.

Wicks: In solitary :sarcasm: as the star exhibit for the Smith critics.


In contrast, where are Reynoldson, Brown, Abraham, Woolnough, Carmont, Tanner... ?

1. Those players were not cheap i don't know why you would say that, they would of made up close to half our salary cap.

2. So what if x player was a reserve grade before he came here and now hes in first grade, why were we signing reserve graders again? Thats my point. Why not go after guys live Civoniceva kimmorley Ennis Bird Carney etc.

Admit it Those 12 players i mentioned are a pretty underwhelming bunch. You could of gotten a 5 year old to pick out 12 random off contract players in 2007 and gotten a better group.

and If you want to Mention De Gois you should also mention
Rogers - crap
Ndaira - crap
Jimmy fawcett - Yet to even play a game.

 

[reginald.p]

I have to disagree on paper we have a good enough team to comfortably make the top 8, and under Smith we saw how good they could be.

Unfortunately under our current regime....... Well the results speak for themselves.

What finishing 9th? The great team on paper that has been tipped by most experts to come last this year?

And Hanscholo under Hagan we finished 3rd 2nd 7th 10th 15th 4th

Under Smith we finished 15th and 9th. We didn't play a single finals game under Smith, all we did was equal the very worst of the Hagan years. Trying to imply that Smith took us from cellar dwellers to consistent finalists is not really accurate.

Fa'aoso, Hilder, Vuna, Outstanding? Vuna who will probably be dropped when Mcmanus returns and a couple of bench players have been outstanding? I would say they have been adequate.

Josh Perry, that was an outstanding signing Kade Snowden, that was an outstanding signing. If Smith had signed Snowden you would of all regarded him as our best signing and called smith a genius admit it.

 

[Jono078]

Rogers always had some ability.

Fawcett is a dud signing and always was a nothing signing as far as im concerned.

And Ndaira was coming off his best ever seasons with the Rabbitohs.

 

[League_God]

you lost me completely when you said we have one of the oldest sides
and

when you said that zeb taia cooper vuna and junior sau are 'average'
im not even going to try to defend them, if you can't see those three footballers are above average then just give up

 

[Serc]

What he said ^

So I hereby deem this thread to have failed.

 

[Elephant Hunter]

And Hanscholo under Hagan we finished 3rd 2nd 7th 10th 15th 4th

Under Smith we finished 15th and 9th. We didn't play a single finals game under Smith, all we did was equal the very worst of the Hagan years. Trying to imply that Smith took us from cellar dwellers to consistent finalists is not really accurate.

I have this weird feeling something else coincided with the departure of Hagan that may have negatively impacted on the teams results under Smith in the first year(s) (15th and 9th as you like pointing out). I really think you would have to say that last year was Smith's year as well or if not then you would need to take the teams position when Smith announced his departure (was it 4th?)

For the life of me I cannot think of what happened at the start of the 2007 season that would have made the job of finishing higher than 4th in 2007 more difficult.

I just get this feeling that Hagan had some major advantage while coaching the team that Smith never got to really use.

Oh yeah JOEY LEFT 4 weeks into the start of Smiths coaching reign.

How well do you think the Knights would have gone with Hagan at the helm and Joey gone? I’m guessing we would have had another spoon in the drawer. Smith managed to get a far better performance out of the Hagan built team without Joey than Hagan ever got when Joey was missing.


And why didn't Smith buy Kimorley and these other players you listed? Oh yeah thats right we had no money because the club had been ran into the ground by holding onto crap players on huge salaries. Until Smith finished the cleanout in 2008 there was no cap room.

 

[Baron Vo Mandor]

What finishing 9th? The great team on paper that has been tipped by most experts to come last this year?

And Hanscholo under Hagan we finished 3rd 2nd 7th 10th 15th 4th

Under Smith we finished 15th and 9th. We didn't play a single finals game under Smith, all we did was equal the very worst of the Hagan years. Trying to imply that Smith took us from cellar dwellers to consistent finalists is not really accurate.

Fa'aoso, Hilder, Vuna, Outstanding? Vuna who will probably be dropped when Mcmanus returns and a couple of bench players have been outstanding? I would say they have been adequate.

Josh Perry, that was an outstanding signing Kade Snowden, that was an outstanding signing. If Smith had signed Snowden you would of all regarded him as our best signing and called smith a genius admit it.

Reginald with the clean out it was always going to be a tough couple of years. Particularly since as we had to it post Joey.

The 15th was to be expected the park footballers knew they were on notice and no one was secure and they sure as hell shouldnt have been.

9th was a legitimate rebuilding year, lots of new faces bonding together it took us a solid half a year and we only missed the finals by the narrowest of margins to miss the 8, to me it wasn't a failure of a year at all.

Smith had the team roaring fire in 09, and due to many factors...... Well it just went to the sh*t.

I honestly dont know if Smith was the right man for 2010, but unless things change dramatically we could be in for a lean few years as we are only missing 1 player and we seem to heading steadily more and more for the sh*tter as the weeks go by, I was always toey of Stone being a yes man due to him surviving two coach's and nothing I've seen thus far with round 1 being the odd one out, I havent been proven wrong.

 

[BG]

2. So what if x player was a reserve grade before he came here and now hes in first grade, why were we signing reserve graders again? Thats my point. Why not go after guys live Civoniceva kimmorley Ennis Bird Carney etc.

Because there's such a thing as a salary cap, and it's all about getting value. How much do you reckon it costs to lure the kind of player you're mentioning? How you can knock the recruitment of players like Sau, Taia, Faas, Vuna and Hilder is beyond me. Their market value has skyrocketed since they came here. That's either brilliant talent spotting or brilliant coaching or both.