Central Coast Bears, 2013.

[PB]

The two or three CC Bears proponents put up these threads for "discussion" but seem to jump down the throat of anyone who has an alternate opinion.. thus negating any chance for discussion (not denying that there aren't some anti bears peeps who just put up posts to be difficult also)

It would be better if there was a seperate board on the forum for the Central Coast Bears, like the other clubs have where these handful of people could discuss pro-bears topics and the antagonists probably wouldn't follow you...

Perhaps such a board does exist, an di haven't seen it in which case that is where these threads should be...

 

[Red&BlackBear]

The two or three CC Bears proponents put up these threads for "discussion" but seem to jump down the throat of anyone who has an alternate opinion.. thus negating any chance for discussion (not denying that there aren't some anti bears peeps who just put up posts to be difficult also)

It would be better if there was a seperate board on the forum for the Central Coast Bears, like the other clubs have where these handful of people could discuss pro-bears topics and the antagonists probably wouldn't follow you...

Perhaps such a board does exist, an di haven't seen it in which case that is where these threads should be...

Maybe expansion as a whole can have its own subforums and threads relating to Central Coast, Brisbane, Ipswich, Central QLD, Western Australia, PNG and Wellington can be found there.

Also their have been just as many people that seem to jump down the throat of anyone who has an alternate opinion on their respective bids. It clearly goes both ways.

Personally I only jump down when people ask me for information or sources, I provide them therefore making whatever debate had void yet they still continue to argue against facts. It's an endless cycle.

 

[Beowulf]

What a spam thread this has turned out to be.

Correct - all the anti-Bears filling an info site with bile and hatred that contribute nothing positive at all to the discussion.

 

[Beowulf]

Blind Freddy could see that there are too many teams in the Sydney region.

So now its Sydney REGION, not Sydney! We're making progress with you I see!

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Basing this post on what I have gathered from the CC bid naysers..

* It seems that putting a team in Brisbane is expansion but Central Coast is not... yet there already is a presence in Brisbane (Broncos) but not one on the Coast.

* It seems that Brisbane is expansion yet Central Coast isn't, even though both areas already play rugby league religiously.

* It seems that Brisbane bid can use numbers outside greater Brisbane to influx their numbers but the Central Coast can't do the same with North Shore.

* It seems that 6 figure sponsorship deals towards Brisbane is great financial support yet the Central Coast's multi 7 figure sponsorship deals are half baked.

* It seems that no members is worth more than 6000 financial members.

* That having both political parties backing the CC bid is disgusting. Yet if pollies backed other bids it's all gravy and chips.

* That engaging in the community means little compared to sitting in an office pondering one's next move.

Then they say that us Central Coast Bears fans debate too much :sarcasm::lol:

 

[PB]

Basing this post on what I have gathered from the CC bid naysers..

* It seems that putting a team in Brisbane is expansion but Central Coast is not... yet there already is a presence in Brisbane (Broncos) but not one on the Coast.

* It seems that Brisbane is expansion yet Central Coast isn't, even though both areas already play rugby league religiously.

* It seems that Brisbane bid can use numbers outside greater Brisbane to influx their numbers but the Central Coast can't do the same with North Shore.

* It seems that 6 figure sponsorship deals towards Brisbane is great financial support yet the Central Coast's multi 7 figure sponsorship deals are half baked.

* It seems that no members with worth more than 6000 financial members.

Then they say that us Central Coast Bears fans debate too much :sarcasm::lol:

I would agree with all of those points...

but then my opinion is that
1) we should be relocating not expanding
2) it should be to Perth and Adelaide first
3) significant grassroots resources and infrastructure should be in place for several years before a new team is introduced (unless there is a significant difference in the media deals if there is an extra game each weekend)

 

[Red&BlackBear]

I would agree with all of those points...

but then my opinion is that
1) we should be relocating not expanding
2) it should be to Perth and Adelaide first
3) significant grassroots resources and infrastructure should be in place for several years before a new team is introduced (unless there is a significant difference in the media deals if there is an extra game each weekend)

I can't argue with that. At least it seems you understand that true expansion is Perth & Adelaide and that if Brisbane is called expansion so must be the Central Coast. However if the Central Coast isn't expansion then neither is Brisbane. There is no 2 ways about this.

I should add that alot of the CCBears bid resources has been going directly into grassroots and infrastructure. It's not like they're spending it all on themselves and their bid (which they are entitled too) but understand the importance of making sure the game is stable and well funded in it's grassroots level. This is another point which many people often tend to forget about the CCBears bid. (this remark isn't aimed at you either)

 

[dangerousdave]

So now its Sydney REGION, not Sydney! We're making progress with you I see!

The Sydney Statistical District goes to the start of the Lake Macquarie LGA. The Central Coast is by definition part of the Sydney metropolitan area with many people reliant on Sydney for employment etc.

 

[PB]

I should add that alot of the CCBears bid resources has been going directly into grassroots and infrastructure. It's not like they're spending it all on themselves and their bid (which they are entitled too) but understand the importance of making sure the game is stable and well funded in it's grassroots level. This is another point which many people often tend to forget about the CCBears bid. (this remark isn't aimed at you either)

The reason i highlight the need for the grassroots and infrastrucutre investment is because it has been the platform on what the AFL have done.

People think GWS was just an over night decision, but it hasn't;
The increase in auskick programs in western sydney has been massive for several years now.
They have not only had the blacktown stadium built but also improved stadiums around kellyville and other met-west suburbs.
They are putting big bucks into a development in Bathurst which will gain publicity over the next 12 months as GWS prepare for their innaugural season.
They have developed an academy in Cairns and have a combined NT/NQLD side playing the in the QLD comp - bulding towards the next expansion team.

It can't be argueed that the AFL have done expansion well (not perfect but well). They got teams in new markets (sydney then brisbane - both through relocation), they then went to easier win markets in perth and adelaide. They later strengthened those markets with Freo and Port and are now adding second NSW and QLD teams now that sound strucutres ar ein place in both of those expanding markets. It has been done methodically and strategically where as the NRL has no plan - and that is what they should be doing before accepting any new teams.

 

[applesauce]

This is a Central Coast bid.. about as much Sydney as Toowoomba or Ipswich is Brisbane..

Even if there were only 4 teams in Brisbane (not including the Gold Coast) an additional team in Ipswich or Toowoomba would be to many.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

The reason i highlight the need for the grassroots and infrastrucutre investment is because it has been the platform on what the AFL have done.

People think GWS was just an over night decision, but it hasn't;
The increase in auskick programs in western sydney has been massive for several years now.
They have not only had the blacktown stadium built but also improved stadiums around kellyville and other met-west suburbs.
They are putting big bucks into a development in Bathurst which will gain publicity over the next 12 months as GWS prepare for their innaugural season.
They have developed an academy in Cairns and have a combined NT/NQLD side playing the in the QLD comp - bulding towards the next expansion team.

It can't be argueed that the AFL have done expansion well (not perfect but well). They got teams in new markets (sydney then brisbane - both through relocation), they then went to easier win markets in perth and adelaide. They later strengthened those markets with Freo and Port and are now adding second NSW and QLD teams now that sound strucutres ar ein place in both of those expanding markets. It has been done methodically and strategically where as the NRL has no plan - and that is what they should be doing before accepting any new teams.

Thats all good but just like the GWS wasn't an overnight decision, neither has the CCBears bid. In fact this bid as been working under various different people since the 90's. Alot of ground work has been done due to the time frame in which the bid has been active.

Much like the W.A. Reds, the CCBears bid has invested alot of resources, time and money into the junior leagues/grassroots and infrastucture (we did build a new stadium and are going to build a Center of Sports Excellence).

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Even if there were only 4 teams in Brisbane (not including the Gold Coast) an additional team in Ipswich or Toowoomba would be to many.

Best solution is to move a current Sydney club to Brisbane but done over time. A team like Manly has more support in QLD than most would believe. Not saying thats my preferred outcome but one that needs to be possibly looked at.

Brisbane Sharks/Sea Eagles would be as well supported in BNE as they would in Sydney and they'd get a grand stadium for their troubles too.

 

[applesauce]

Best solution is to move a current Sydney club to Brisbane but done over time. A team like Manly has more support in QLD than most would believe. Not saying thats my preferred outcome but one that needs to be possibly looked at.

Brisbane Sharks/Sea Eagles would be as well supported in BNE as they would in Sydney and they'd get a grand stadium for their troubles too.

100% agree. But we should not be adding to the NSW teams until something like this happens.

I am not against the Bears, I am just against a NSW bid at this time (TV rights etc.).

 

[Red&BlackBear]

100% agree. But we should not be adding to the NSW teams until something like this happens.

I am not against the Bears, I am just against a NSW bid at this time (TV rights etc.).

It makes more sense then moving into a foreign place. At least there is a guaranteed pool of juniors and players should they relocate to Brisbane/S.E.QLD/QLD. As well as infrastucture and support base for most clubs.

I know you're not against the Bears, I know your reasons. The Central Coast Bears have ticked all the boxes. Regular contact between the CCBears bid team and the NRL, kept the CCBears informed of what is/was needed. Encouragement to sell memberships and merchandise.

There is a strong community support base established, strong corporate and sponsor partners both major and locally. A strong business model and financial plan, coupled with the Sports Center of Excellence signed off.

It is foolish to assume we wont add anything in relation to TV dollars. We will, I guarantee that.

 

[Goddo]

Best solution is to move a current Sydney club to Brisbane but done over time. A team like Manly has more support in QLD than most would believe. Not saying thats my preferred outcome but one that needs to be possibly looked at.

Brisbane Sharks/Sea Eagles would be as well supported in BNE as they would in Sydney and they'd get a grand stadium for their troubles too.

Finally, we are getting somewhere with you.

If relocation doesn't happen, should we further crowd the Sydney market and forgo the $$$ potential of SE Queensland.

OR

Should we give the people of SE Queensland a club of their own now, and watch the situation in crowded Sydney develop, and use whatever resources the game has to nudge Sydney into better shape?

Remember that the NRL cannot legally boot clubs (Souths 2002 and Wests 1984). All it can do is provide carrot and stick with the salary cap, grants and so on. Also remember the Sharks decided they would rather die in the Shire than survive interstate.
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The Bears make no sense to the game as a whole currently. If they were setting up in Brisbane, Adelaide, Wellington or Perth I would back the bid to the hilt, but not on the Central Coast.

 

[Cheesie-the-Pirate]

It is foolish to assume we wont add anything in relation to TV dollars. We will, I guarantee that.

Not sure anyone sensible would argue that the CC Bears don't add any value to the TV contract. You'd hope any new team would do that. The question is whether they add as much to the contract as the alternatives.

 

[Perth Red]

Only decision Bears have made that could cost them dearly is to stick with a NSW area as their bid location. I know CC has a strong historic link for the Bears and it is much easier for them to gain community support from that area but it could ultimately be their downfall. The only legitamate arguments I have heard against a CC Bears team is that the NRL does not need another NSW team as much as it needs teams in other locations, that TV gains little from having another NSW club in the comp and that there is danger of another NSW team diluting an already stretched corporate base for NRL teams in NSW.

As difficult as it would have been I am sure if the Bears in the early 2000's discussed with the NRL where they would prefer a new team to be based (if they, the NRL, had a clue!) then a Brisbane, SA, WA or Wellington Bears would have been an absolute shoe in if not already in the comp.

 

[BDGS]

Hang on... this is the Opposition leader? he's not even in power to give the Bears money? how can this be guaranteed money???? What if he doesn't win the election? Is the other party offering the same money?

Barry lose the election? :lol::lol:

 

[BDGS]

Oh boo hoo.. had these political parties been pushing for the Knights or Newcastle region it wouldn't be disgusting would it? It's always a bad thing when it doesn't involve one's team/club/region, but when it does it's the best thing ever. :crazy:

Didn't the state government pay for the Knights stadium when it was first built?

 

[BDGS]

Finally, we are getting somewhere with you.

If relocation doesn't happen, should we further crowd the Sydney market and forgo the $$$ potential of SE Queensland.

OR

Should we give the people of SE Queensland a club of their own now, and watch the situation in crowded Sydney develop, and use whatever resources the game has to nudge Sydney into better shape?

Remember that the NRL cannot legally boot clubs (Souths 2002 and Wests 1984). All it can do is provide carrot and stick with the salary cap, grants and so on. Also remember the Sharks decided they would rather die in the Shire than survive interstate.
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The Bears make no sense to the game as a whole currently. If they were setting up in Brisbane, Adelaide, Wellington or Perth I would back the bid to the hilt, but not on the Central Coast.

Ah, so you agree the best bid not taking into location is the Bears bid, The NRL have already said the best bid will be put into the NRL not the best located bid. Therefore Bears are in, finally you have made some sense.