Central Coast Bears, 2013.

[Perth Red]

I think few people would argue that having the Bears back in would be a good thing, having a NSW based Bears back in is not, in some peoples opinion.

 

[_MayMoo 2]

Only decision Bears have made that could cost them dearly is to stick with a NSW area as their bid location. I know CC has a strong historic link for the Bears and it is much easier for them to gain community support from that area but it could ultimately be their downfall. The only legitamate arguments I have heard against a CC Bears team is that the NRL does not need another NSW team as much as it needs teams in other locations, that TV gains little from having another NSW club in the comp and that there is danger of another NSW team diluting an already stretched corporate base for NRL teams in NSW.

As difficult as it would have been I am sure if the Bears in the early 2000's discussed with the NRL where they would prefer a new team to be based (if they, the NRL, had a clue!) then a Brisbane, SA, WA or Wellington Bears would have been an absolute shoe in if not already in the comp.

And yet the NRL keeps encouraging the Bears to sell CC Bears merchandise and memberships etc, to engage the CC community. Keeps encouraguing them on all fronts.

Each bid has pluses and minuses - The arguments against the Bears that offer nothing other than "but it's in NSW" are weak. It may be in NSW, but it's also a huge catchment unrepresented in the NRL. And that is the more pertinent point.

 

[Goddo]

Ah, so you agree the best bid not taking into location is the Bears bid, The NRL have already said the best bid will be put into the NRL not the best located bid. Therefore Bears are in, finally you have made some sense.

The "best bid" is completely dependent on location. I would say the Bears are currently the "most organised" bid, but definately not the "best".

So, yes, if you ignore TV rights, growth potential, potential to draw sponsors, fans, corporates, opening new markets and so on, the Bears have the "best" bid. But that doesn't leave a lot that has value to the NRL. (Please don't try to argue that the CC is not part of Sydney, because for some pretty major things it is such as TV, some of the Bears sponsorships et cetera)

"Best" implies it is in the games interest to expand there first. The Bears definately aren't that.

So Perth and Brisbane/Ipswich (whichever Brisbane metro bid the ARLC determine is the best, at the moment it looks like Brisbane II)

 

[BDGS]

The "best bid" is completely dependent on location. I would say the Bears are currently the "most organised" bid, but definately not the "best".

So, yes, if you ignore TV rights, growth potential, potential to draw sponsors, fans, corporates, opening new markets and so on, the Bears have the "best" bid. But that doesn't leave a lot that has value to the NRL. (Please don't try to argue that the CC is not part of Sydney, because for some pretty major things it is such as TV, some of the Bears sponsorships et cetera)

"Best" implies it is in the games interest to expand there first. The Bears definately aren't that.

So Perth and Brisbane/Ipswich (whichever Brisbane metro bid the ARLC determine is the best, at the moment it looks like Brisbane II)

ahh yes, i already read this the last 999 times you posted it. All points you raised have already been addresses and you have been answered numerous times.

 

[AuDragon]

I don't think anyone argues the merits and organisation of the CC Bears bid, but I do think its supporters are being blind to its weakness, which is, as many have said, its location.

- It does NOT expand the game significantly.
- It will be another club vying for TV slots in an already saturated area.
- It draws potential sponsors away from existing clubs in the greater Sydney area.

ALL the other bids bring more to the table in the above areas.

Whether this has been answered 999 times or more doesn't change the facts.

I would love to see the Bears back, and they deserve to come back, but should do so as replacement to the clubs in the NRL that aren't viable and are being kept alive artificially.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

And yet the NRL keeps encouraging the Bears to sell CC Bears merchandise and memberships etc, to engage the CC community. Keeps encouraguing them on all fronts.

Good point. But the NRL aren't going to say to the Bears bid 'stick it up your jumper you're no chance in hell' because its bad PR. The bears are as much a chance as getting in as any of the bids that put in their proposals when the time comes. The bids will be judged on merit. No doubt the NRL has numerous KPIs that they will assess the bids on.

Each bid has pluses and minuses - The arguments against the Bears that offer nothing other than "but it's in NSW" are weak. It may be in NSW, but it's also a huge catchment unrepresented in the NRL. And that is the more pertinent point.

Good point again sir. The fact that the CC is unrepresented is a huge positive for the bears. On the flip side just because there is a space doesn't mean you need to fill it.

As an analogy, if you have a backyard and fill up every available space with something you may be weakening the value of your property rather than improving it. If the NRL puts a team in this available space (The CC) they may weaken the clubs already in Sydney. And before anyone says 'bad luck to them if they're not strong enough to survive then tough' (or similar) the plight of the bears should be enough to see that this attitude isn't a good one.

 

[BDGS]

I don't think anyone argues the merits and organisation of the CC Bears bid, but I do think its supporters are being blind to its weakness, which is, as many have said, its location.

- It does NOT expand the game significantly.
- It will be another club vying for TV slots in an already saturated area.
- It draws potential sponsors away from existing clubs in the greater Sydney area.

ALL the other bids bring more to the table in the above areas.

Whether this has been answered 999 times or more doesn't change the facts.

I would love to see the Bears back, and they deserve to come back, but should do so as replacement to the clubs in the NRL that aren't viable and are being kept alive artificially.

Did i say answered? I meant proven wrong.

 

[mightybears]

the political porkbarelling on the central coast is disgusting.

Does it really surprise though?..and there isn't a team/ground in the NRL that hasn't had a major handout from the state and/or fed government.

Surely as a Knight fan your mob are felling more secure about a new southern neighbour now that you have been/are about to be tinklered.

 

[clarency]

Did i say answered? I meant proven wrong.

I've mentioned the weaknesses several times... and they have been pointed out again a couple of times again on this page alone.

They certainly haven't been proven wrong, and for the most part they are completely ignored. You're half baked attempt at responding to my finals tv ratings scenario in favour of a 2nd Bris side didn't come of as well as you hoped... remember?

 

[BDGS]

I didn't answer any of those questions but go back to the last thread and RBB and Beowulf proved it wrong 4/5 times. each time you lot disappear and re-appear later with the same crap.

 

[clarency]

No they didn't address that point I made at all... it became a long line of drivel between you and couple others. RBB and Beowulf have responded to claims that "CCB will add no extra TV viewers", saying that it is stupid to assert that, of course we'll get more viewers.

And they are correct, the problem is that's not what is being asserted. The argument is they won't add as much to the TV rights deal as the Bris2 team will.

 

[Beowulf]

The "best bid" is completely dependent on location. I would say the Bears are currently the "most organised" bid, but definately not the "best".

So, yes, if you ignore TV rights, growth potential, potential to draw sponsors, fans, corporates, opening new markets and so on, the Bears have the "best" bid. But that doesn't leave a lot that has value to the NRL. (Please don't try to argue that the CC is not part of Sydney, because for some pretty major things it is such as TV, some of the Bears sponsorships et cetera)

"Best" implies it is in the games interest to expand there first. The Bears definately aren't that.

So Perth and Brisbane/Ipswich (whichever Brisbane metro bid the ARLC determine is the best, at the moment it looks like Brisbane II)

Lcoation has already been dismissed by the NRL - David Gallop said the NRL have no preferred location for a new entrant, just whoever has the strongest model and can help grow the game (or to use his latest words, add to the health of the game). There is no doubt the Bears have the strongest model at present, and its up to the bid team to convince the NRL they can grow the game by bringing back a Foundation Club, healing old wounds, reconnecting with northern Sydney, shoring up league support against the GWS push, reigniting huge rivalries etc etc.

The latent support will certainly increase TV rights, by how much is debatable. Growth potential, well there's 1.1 million without a team for a start plus/including old Bears fans everywhere who have switched off NRL. Re sponsors, I think the Bears have around 60 or 70 now. Fans goes without saying - 18K average projected at home, 5-10,000 away crowds to games in Sydney & Newcastle....ie most games. Combine the two and we're extremely beneficial to most teams home game crowds. Re corporates - North Sydney CBD combined with Chatswood & Nth Ryde would be only behind Sydney & Melbournes CBD's in terms of corporates - with many high powered execs former Bears fans we're probably one of the best positioned behind the Broncos in that regard.

Sure the bid is not perfect, but no bid is. The NRL gave the Bears what they wanted from this franchise, and the Bears have over-delivered....over to you, NRL.

 

[Beowulf]

No they didn't address that point I made at all... it became a long line of drivel between you and couple others. RBB and Beowulf have responded to claims that "CCB will add no extra TV viewers", saying that it is stupid to assert that, of course we'll get more viewers.

And they are correct, the problem is that's not what is being asserted. The argument is they won't add as much to the TV rights deal as the Bris2 team will.

I think you're probably right on that point. Not by as much as those unfamiliar with the Bears history and latent support across Australasia would probably like to admit however.

On all other considerations, I think the Bears sit very comfortably....IMO of course!

 

[Garts]

Gee some of the bears supporters sure are super sensitive to some people saying they believe the location "could" go against them in the bid process. Do you not like alternate opinions? I can understanding some getting annoyed and defensive with the death riders, especially some of the Manly and Newcastle fans. But some of the comments are hardly so out there and negative I see any need to get defensive about them.

 

[BDGS]

What would you rather from a bid.

A bid that knocks doubts or other alternates out of the water purely by how good it is?

Or

A bid that says "yeah we might not be the best, let's hope we get in"?

I know which bid will get into the NRl and which wouldn't, it'll be the proactive one with less doubts.

 

[AuDragon]

Did i say answered? I meant proven wrong.

Really? Where?
Definitely not in the 3000+ posts about the CC Bears bid. :sarcasm:

You can argue the bid's merits, which it absolutely has, but you can't hide its weaknesses, which it also definitely has! Instead it seems that rubbishing the other bids, especially the scary prospect of a viable Brisbane bid, is what goes.

I didn't care either way until I started reading these threads and the absolute rubbish coughed out by some of the CC bid supporters, and although my vote counts for very little, WA Reds and Brisbane II get my nod.

 

[macavity]

Didn't the state government pay for the Knights stadium when it was first built?

Yes.... in 1967.

What is conveniently ignored by the CC cheer squad when pointing the finger at Newcastle is that the Knights paid for late 80s/early 90s upgrades out of their own pockets (while also paying all upkeep for the ground), and then had to wait until the stand was literally about to be condemned before getting anything close to a completed stadium... not to mention the state govt literally trying to bankrupt the club because of a minister's personal agenda.

Meanwhile, thanks to pork barrelling, the CC gets a stadium fully paid for before it has a team, before it is even able to support a team, arguably before it even has an identity as an area at all....

....and now an NRL team that doesn't exist gets a taxpayer funded "centre for excellence" while Brooky rots, Campbelltown is barely good enough for Group 20 matches, Leichhardt is a glorified goat track, Kogarah is still pathetically small.....

Just admit it, you are a huge benefactor of disgusting pork barrelling. The CC has been in many areas for a long, long time.

 

[macavity]

There is no doubt the Bears have the strongest model at present,

There is HUGE doubt about this.... where do you get off stating it as fact?

 

[Beowulf]

Gee some of the bears supporters sure are super sensitive to some people saying they believe the location "could" go against them in the bid process. Do you not like alternate opinions? I

The location issue is a red herring - David Gallop has said the NRL has no preferred bid location. On that basis the volunteers have been pushing memberships. I don't think R&B Bear or a late-comer to this site like me have been over-sensitive at all considering R&B Bear in particular has had to say it so many times. In fact, if opponents on the Bears bid want to get distracted on an non-issue, it works to the Bears advantage.

 

[Timmah]

:lol:

Don't let your hate of the Central Coast cloud your judgement now, eh, mac?