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Central Coast Bears, 2013.

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BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
14,392
I keep saying this in respect of the TV rights argument...

The TV networks & their consultants are wrong... the Bears fans are right.....
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
14,392
It's all good to talk up TV ratings and the rest of it, but who is actually going to watch a team if they don't support it, aside from opposition fans? You may get some casual observers, but they aren't enough to warrant granting a license to a team with SFA in terms of support.

Smith is understood to have told last Thursday's conference of NRL club chief executives and chairmen that the only new team broadcasters would pay more for in the next rights deal was one based in south-east Queensland.
Club bosses were told that television executives believed Queenslanders were ''peculiar'' in that they would support any Queensland team - the Broncos, the Cowboys or the Titans - but not teams from anywhere else.



Those Queenslanders are a peculiar bunch indeed. Look at the bandwagoners that get on the Roar and Reds...

I will bet that everyone that goes for the Broncos will support the new Brisbane team as their second favourite team, particularly when it comes to watching them on TV...
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,105
Those Queenslanders are a peculiar bunch indeed. Look at the bandwagoners that get on the Roar and Reds...

I will bet that everyone that goes for the Broncos will support the new Brisbane team as their second favourite team, particularly when it comes to watching them on TV...

It is weird but also very good for the game if that happens!
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
Bet you're extremely happy about this one.

I'm very sorry to have caused you so much concern over the past 24 months by simply wanting to have my club back in the NRL. I guess it's just that I've followed this game pretty closely nearly my whole life and I want to see my club competing in the top flight. I know this personally offends you, judging by the large amount of posts you've made in this thread.

Really, it isnt preferring one option over the other (in this case SE Qld over the Bears) that gets me here, it has been the constant, constant deathriding, mocking every good move in what is a fantastic bid in a location that doesnt do it a huge amount of favours (despite the obvious attraction of a side in a league mad area that also allows for a presence in the north sydney region, right back to the hornsby kurrungai area). I mean you and your ilks love of mocking the community engagement aspect of the bid is hilarious, given that the GC Titans have shown what a lack of community engagement pre-NRL can do to a club (numbers falling each year and a general sense of a team place in an area, rather than one grown from it, judging by articles seen in the SMH at various times).

But as a club if this bid should prove to be unsuccessful we arent just going to roll over and die. We've fought for 103 years, through attempts to kill us off, but we have not rolled over and died as im sure certain people wished we had of.

Look, I don't deathride this bid out of hate for the Bears. I am very worried that Rugby League is heading up the creek without a paddle in this country. A few mates of mine who grew up RL fans all play AFL and follow both codes now.

We must make our game more national, and we must increase revenue, open new markets and get a better spread of sides. I think the Bears as a "northern" St George model is excellent and actually much better than a few current sides.

Unfortunately, it isn't really within the NRL's powers to boot those sides. It would be extremely difficult to do (Wests 1983, Souths 2002). We thus must do whats in the best interests of the competition as a whole, and then try to fix Sydney with incentives to the weaker clubs.

I don't hate the Bears, I just think Bears fans put their cause ahead of the best interests of Rugby League, when there are some big external things that we have to deal with.
 

Bro Bear

Juniors
Messages
275
Keep up the good work CC Bears. We have more going more us than the doomsayers keep trashing on about. The CC and North Shore of Sydeny needs its own team in the NRL - the CC Bears.
 
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4,765
Look, I don't deathride this bid out of hate for the Bears. I am very worried that Rugby League is heading up the creek without a paddle in this country. A few mates of mine who grew up RL fans all play AFL and follow both codes now.

You contradict yourself here. You're worried about where League is heading in this country yet at the same time think we should disregard a big rugby league heartland with demand for a team which has a bid who has actively engages the community and due to that managed to get memberships, sponsors, supporters and become an integral part of the community.

If by continually shrugging off your strengths and people who live and breathe footy for an organization which has 0 support and credibility is the way to go. Then yes, be worried. Be very worried. Because there will be side effects to all of this. Maybe not short term but definitely long term.
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
You fail to see beyond your own interests again.

What of the Queensland cup without any outside NRL sides? The Broncos Titans and Cowboys are not enough.
What of developing juniors in Perth?
What of local pathways within SE Queensland?
Club per population figures?
What of the importance of revenue from TV rights and sponsorship by national expanion?
What of our national market share relative to our competitors? Super Rugby and AFL have had a huge leg up from our tiny efforts in Queensland.

Yet you seem to think a 12th NSW side is in our best interests? There are bigger fish to fry. North Sydney and the Central Coast can easily be absorbed by neighbouring teams like Manly, Parramatta, Sydney and Newcastle. Brisbane is a city of 2.1M with one side, and satelite towns with populations total exceeding 1.5m.

The Bears are not in the best interests of the game.
 
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BDGS

Bench
Messages
4,102

Why post this here? Are you doing it to get a reaction or just gloating? It doesn't effect me but i would of thought that this news would be more on topic if placed in the Brisbane Bombers or Western Corridor bid.

Bye bye Bears. Thanks for the arrogance.

Why do you get your joys off the back of others misery?

That takes a low person for that to happen.

Good one - from the most disgraceful club in the league - violent fans, cheating, Coffs Harbour.
Nice work, idiot.

There is no need for this, you must be a lounge chair support and believe everything in the papers to believe that Bulldogs supports are more violent then any other group of supporters.

Coffs Harbour was thrown out of caught and the ones who made those claims where arrested at one stage for giving false and misleading evidence. That is where i stopped following the case. There is no point to bring this up, no need for it either.

By all means have a go at the dickhead that is dgsfan, but don't attack another club because at the moment things aren't looking good for the bears bid. Good news is coming for the bid and it will give the Bears a life and who knows what can happen from that.

I'm disappointed as well for the Bears.
 

age.s

First Grade
Messages
7,529
Look, I don't deathride this bid out of hate for the Bears. I am very worried that Rugby League is heading up the creek without a paddle in this country. A few mates of mine who grew up RL fans all play AFL and follow both codes now.

We must make our game more national, and we must increase revenue, open new markets and get a better spread of sides. I think the Bears as a "northern" St George model is excellent and actually much better than a few current sides.

Unfortunately, it isn't really within the NRL's powers to boot those sides. It would be extremely difficult to do (Wests 1983, Souths 2002). We thus must do whats in the best interests of the competition as a whole, and then try to fix Sydney with incentives to the weaker clubs.

I don't hate the Bears, I just think Bears fans put their cause ahead of the best interests of Rugby League, when there are some big external things that we have to deal with.

Thing is you have to look a bit longer term than just the next tv deal when deciding where to put a team.

CC is rugby league heartland. It's a place that deserves a team at some point in the future. It has the population, interest, and while it's close to an area overrepresented in terms of the amount of teams it's still NOT Sydney and never will be. If that was all the bid had going for it you might say SEQ would be better off getting the nod, but the other aspect is continuing value of the Bears brand. The Bears were a much loved foundation club that is etched into the minds of many followers of RL all over the country. Even disregarding how badly they were treated at the turn of the century, that's a brand name with value, and is not something that should just be tossed aside like some people (yourself included) seem to think should happen.

If SEQ don't get another team in the coming years the effect on the region will be minimal, and possibly even positive. The Broncos will hum along but the Titans will get some much needed breathing room. No one will miss the bombers, and the window for expansion (or relocation) will still be well and truly open. We will probably get a slightly worse deal from TV revenue, and that's something to consider. But if the sport is relying on the marginal extra tv money that a 3rd SEQ team would bring to stop it going tits up we're in deep deep shit anyway.

If CC don't get a team in the coming years the Bears will probably start to fade into obscurity. They will go the way of the Bluebags and be that team from the last century that didn't make it through the rationalisation of the game. In other words, a brand with value to the game would be lost forever. Even you must admit that is worth considering. If hypothetically Manly or the Sharks looked to relocate there in the future, that would leave fewer existing brands to be utilised for future expansion into other areas (Wellington, CQLD, Adelaide etc). Long term that would be a loss of value for the NRL.

If they gave the nod to CCB and WAR and switch to an 18 team comp they could still build in to the TV deal the possibility of increased revenue from an extra SEQ game should an existing Sydney team relocate north. Put a $25m incentive (a fraction of the increase in tv revenue) for any existing Sydney team to relocate and merge with a Brisbane QLD cup team and play out of Suncorp. Then you get a SEQ team with history in Sydney and Brisbane, the Bears back and a more even spread of clubs across the eastern seaboard. Is it the perfect model for a second Brisbane team? Maybe not, but how is just dumping the "Bombers" on Brisbane any better?
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,105
I think the NRL saw the AFL TV deal and how the perception of a truly national comp has been used to drive their last two deals and finally realises that the comp can no longer be a suburban game. I don't think many disagree that the Bears would add to tthe comp but strategically, and for a number of reasons, the area is not a priority. Having said that the strength of the bid still puts it ahead of Q'land bids at this time and unless either of them really get their stuff together it wouldn't surprise me to see a Bears & Reds entry in 2014.
 
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Messages
4,765
You fail to see beyond your own interests again.

What of the Queensland cup without any outside NRL sides? The Broncos Titans and Cowboys are not enough.
What of developing juniors in Perth?
What of local pathways within SE Queensland?
Club per population figures?
What of the importance of revenue from TV rights and sponsorship by national expanion?
What of our national market share relative to our competitors? Super Rugby and AFL have had a huge leg up from our tiny efforts in Queensland.

Yet you seem to think a 12th NSW side is in our best interests? There are bigger fish to fry. North Sydney and the Central Coast can easily be absorbed by neighbouring teams like Manly, Parramatta, Sydney and Newcastle. Brisbane is a city of 2.1M with one side, and satelite towns with populations total exceeding 1.5m.

The Bears are not in the best interests of the game.

Fail to see beyond my own interests? How rich!

Who was the ONLY team to relocate out of Sydney for the greater good of the game?

The Bears have already done things for the greater good of the game, not only their interests. It's time for forgetful people like yourself to look beyond a 5 year time span and look back 15 years and forward 15 years to get a clearer picture of just what the Bears add to the game and wouldve added to the game had they just played one damn game in 1999 @ the time unfinished Bluetongue.
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
age.s, if you look longer term than the next TV deal then it is even MORE important to go to SE Queensland.

2050 Brisbane will have as many people as Sydney does now. By 2035 Queensland will have more people than Victoria. It is our single greatest strength for growth over the next 40+ years, asside from getting single clubs into hostile places like Adelaide, Perth and Wellington.

The game is not the NSWRL anymore.

You don't see the AFL expanding in Tasmania or Ballarat do you? Increasingly NRL clubs are taking games outside of Sydney to generate revenue.

Already we have games taken to Perth, Adelaide, Gosford, Brisbane, New Zealand - this reflects that Sydney can't handle the number of clubs it has currently, let alone another on its fringe.

How much TV exposure and sponsorships do you realistically see this club getting? That will come from canibilsing the market from current NRL sides.

There is a law of diminishing returns, and we have reached that point with 11 NSW sides. The whole point of national expansion and market rationalisation coupled with self interested sides and a greedy media is what led to Super League.

Have we not learned the lesson from that? Why bother with growing the game or an IC if all we are going to do is make the same mistakes over and over again. The Bears are out of the game, rightly or wrongly, and unless something changes in NSW, it should remain so.
 
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age.s

First Grade
Messages
7,529
The Bears are out of the game, rightly or wrongly, and unless something changes in NSW, it should remain so.

And that is NOT a good thing. I'll repeat, they are a brand with value to the NRL, and if they don't get in now they're probably going the way of the dodo. Just like simply booting Sydney clubs doesn't increase the amount of fans following the game. If increasing the number of teams in QLD at the expense of Sydney clubs is deemed important then it can be done via incentives for current clubs. Just manufacturing a plastic franchise in Brisbane doesn't necessarily give the game the best possible outcome.
 

BDGS

Bench
Messages
4,102
WA is now a hostile place for a NRL club?

Maybe five years ago but lately they are not hostile at all.
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
And that is NOT a good thing. I'll repeat, they are a brand with value to the NRL, and if they don't get in now they're probably going the way of the dodo. Just like simply booting Sydney clubs doesn't increase the amount of fans following the game. If increasing the number of teams in QLD at the expense of Sydney clubs is deemed important then it can be done via incentives for current clubs. Just manufacturing a plastic franchise in Brisbane doesn't necessarily give the game the best possible outcome.

Fine, relocate the Bears to a location where we need a team. With 11 in NSW, we don't need any more there. Try Christchurch, they like Red and Black, Adelaide or Queensland. Chances of success would be much greater.

Or would you rather relocate say Cronulla to Adelaide, Manly to Queensland? Good luck trying to make that happen to accomodate the Bears.

WA is now a hostile place for a NRL club?

Maybe five years ago but lately they are not hostile at all.
Hostile is probably the wrong term. "Key markets for other sports" is a better phrase. We can carve a niche and grow, but we won't dominate the market.
 
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age.s

First Grade
Messages
7,529
Fine, relocate the Bears to a location where we need a team. With 11 in NSW, we don't need any more there. Try Christchurch, they like Red and Black, Adelaide or Queensland. Chances of success would be much greater.

Or would you rather relocate say Cronulla to Adelaide, Manly to Queensland? Good luck trying to make that happen to accomodate the Bears.

Don't force anyone anywhere. Offer a large payment to anyone willing to relocate, if no one bites, make the payment larger. If the Sharks or Manly (or even the Bears bid team) think it's worth their while then they will do so, and you have your new team, and you didn't have to kill anyone to do it.

If you forced the Bears off somewhere else what would you do with CC? I think we can all agree the CC has more of an affinity with the Bears at this point than they do with the Sharks or Manly. The Bears have put 10 years of work into the place. They're a region deserving of an NRL area, just maybe not the best region right at this moment.
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
I'd have no problem at all with that. Bring in the Bears and relocate Manly to Sunshine Coast. making it happen is another thing all together. Particularily with a club elected independent Commission.
 

Quidgybo

Bench
Messages
3,054
I'd have no problem at all with that. Bring in the Bears and relocate Manly to Sunshine Coast. making it happen is another thing all together. Particularily with a club elected independent Commission.
From what has been reported the Commission is not club elected, only club evicted. The Commission will choose its own replacement for any vacancy. Of course what happens if the entire Commission is evicted at once is another matter.

Leigh
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
I will bet that everyone that goes for the Broncos will support the new Brisbane team as their second favourite team, particularly when it comes to watching them on TV...

I can just as easily claim that no one in the far larger NSW market will give two shits about the soulless Bombers, and will largely ignore them on TV. But that would be wild speculation too.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
If SEQ don't get another team in the coming years the effect on the region will be minimal, and possibly even positive. The Broncos will hum along but the Titans will get some much needed breathing room. No one will miss the bombers, and the window for expansion (or relocation) will still be well and truly open. We will probably get a slightly worse deal from TV revenue, and that's something to consider. But if the sport is relying on the marginal extra tv money that a 3rd SEQ team would bring to stop it going tits up we're in deep deep shit anyway.

This. No one believes there shouldn't be another team in SE QLD - there should and will be at least one more. But now is not the right time. Not only because the Bears and Perth bids are far better, but to give the Titans the necessary time to establish themselves.

Bears and Reds, 2014.
Brisbane/Ipswich and Wellington for the next TV deal.
 
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