Central Coast Bears NRL Bid.

[flamin]

I disagree. For the areas that aren't getting a club and indeed for every market across Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific the NRL needs to sit down and develop a long term strategy and say "this is our specific plan for the area"

Otherwise it will be another decade of "wouldn't be nice if this area had a team" fantasies.

Yes definitely they need long term strategies for all areas, but strategies have to change with changing environments. Will it eve be possible to conclusively say the Central Coast will never get a team?

40 years ago the Gold Coast was just a group of sleepy villages.

Of course but the Bears bid has been in reserve for a decade now because of the NRL's inconclusiveness and it may be at least another three.

The NRL needs to shit or get off the pot.

I agree witht the criticism of the previous administration. When the Commision came to power they found that the Gallop administration had done virtually zero research into expansion. As such, they have set a definite date to discuss the issue, at the end of the 2014 season. So bids have 1.5 years to make their case.

 

[Perth Red]

So everything else is just mind reading.

Hardly, interpreting some pretty clear statements made by the games CEO, which you conveniently didn't quote!

 

[docbrown]

Born in Newy. Spent first 25 years of my life there.

And? Do you think you're the only one?

You're not the first person to bring up Sydney or "Sydney-centric" as negative for a Central Coast bid when it's irrelevant to the issue.

Australia is much bigger than it was in 1988 as well!

The Central Coast population is around 330,000 and it's projected to double within 25 years. It's is/going to be bigger than Canberra, Illawarra and Townsville yet they'll all have teams but the Central Coast won't. It's also/will be bigger than Christchurch, Wellington and Central Queensland.

If teams like the Raiders, Knights and Cowboys can/could all work off the back of smaller populations than what the Central Coast has then to argue that they don't have the numbers to support a team is pretty stupid.

A team on the Central Coast is likely to perform better than a team in Adelaide.

Would like to soften the blow for them though when u don't get in.

For your information I'm not a Bears supporter, I'm a Knights supporter and that will never change.

I've said it before that Perth and Brisbane are priorities but that the NRL shouldn't keep f**king around the Bears organization or the Central Coast one way or the other.

If the Bears don't get in, I'm not affected except for the fact that it would be a fundamental mistake for the NRL to overlook a major growth market like the Central Coast as one of the next 4 teams in the comp for the sake of putting a dot on a map in high-risk low-growth Adelaide or a less populated and sprawled out area like Central Queensland.

 

[docbrown]

Yes definitely they need long term strategies for all areas, but strategies have to change with changing environments. Will it eve be possible to conclusively say the Central Coast will never get a team?

For 8 years we've had an administration without a solid expansion strategy.

That's been painful enough. The NRL needs to decide within the next two years what the next two expansion areas are and what the next two potential markets are after that so that they can start preparing those areas rather than just dumping teams in later on without preparation.

Otherwise it's just more of the same ineffective management.

I agree witht the criticism of the previous administration. When the Commision came to power they found that the Gallop administration had done virtually zero research into expansion. As such, they have set a definite date to discuss the issue, at the end of the 2014 season. So bids have 1.5 years to make their case.

Yes and I can't fault the new commission for the faults of the past but likewise, whilst the bids are making their preparations the NRL needs to be acting independently and conducting their own surveys of the potential markets.

 

[docbrown]

Hardly, interpreting some pretty clear statements made by the games CEO, which you conveniently didn't quote!

Because I asked you for a quote where they specifically ruled out Gosford/Central Coast and you could not provide that.

You keep talking about "reading between the lines" but the same crap was being said about Gallop's statements and as others have intimated it was all just hot air.

 

[Perth Red]

You keep mentioning Adelaide as a dot on a map, money pit etc etc. you might have a point if they were bidding for inclusion anytime soon but they aren't. If the NRL was expanding in 2005 Perth wouldn't have had a cat in bells chance. By 2010 we had rebuilt the game here and put together a solid bid. No reason Adelaide couldn't be in exactly the same situation by the time the 2nd round of expansion happens, if it ever does.

Why would the NRL announce where expansion would take place in ten years? Who knows what the national and games landscape will look like by 2023?

They will announce Brisbane and Perth in late 2014/early 2015 for ko in 2017 IMO. At that point they will not confirm or deny possible future expansion including Gosford as they genuinely will to know until the game is ready to look at expansion again which may not be for a long time. Bears get talking to the western corridor. SQ bears, you know it makes sense!

 

[Garbler]

And? Do you think you're the only one?

Yeah I think I'm the only one born in Newcastle. :sarcasm: Maybe try a better deflection next time for wrongly assuming I wasn't from the area.

You're not the first person to bring up Sydney or "Sydney-centric" as negative for a Central Coast bid when it's irrelevant to the issue.

Again didn't say that I was; explain how its irrelevant or do u think blank statements are enough cause u wrote them?

The Central Coast population is around 330,000 and it's projected to double within 25 years. It's is/going to be bigger than Canberra, Illawarra and Townsville yet they'll all have teams but the Central Coast won't. It's also/will be bigger than Christchurch, Wellington and Central Queensland.

Too bad those other cities also service much larger areas. Do you think it's only Townsville residents that attend Cowboys games? No, people travel 9+ hours to get to those games. Also those other teams don't have 3/4 of the competition surrounding them geographically to compete for sponsorship with. Also I'm sure those areas are probably projected to double in 25 years as well - population growth is not unique to CC...

If teams like the Raiders, Knights and Cowboys can/could all work off the back of smaller populations than what the Central Coast has then to argue that they don't have the numbers to support a team is pretty stupid.

Again who said they don't have the numbers to support a team? I said CC didn't have the numbers in the context of expansion - Other areas bidding right now have more impressive numbers.

I've said it before that Perth and Brisbane are priorities but that the NRL shouldn't keep f**king around the Bears organization or the Central Coast one way or the other.

I think the new CEO has proven to be much more proactive than Gallop, I presume he will have some more things to say in this area.

 

[docbrown]

You keep mentioning Adelaide as a dot on a map, money pit etc etc.

It will be. It's going to be the runt of all the expansion sides.

Like I said, look at Melbourne. They've been in the comp for 15 years, had success and even had a News Limited money stream. Admittedly they could have been funded better with a better development strategy but they're still struggling. Perth will go through similar issues. You need only look at the AFL. For all their grand talk after 30 years the Swans and Lions still need special assistance yet people somehow think that Adelaide won't. It's insane.

At that point they will not confirm or deny possible future expansion

Then that would be bad management.

 

[docbrown]

Yeah I think I'm the only one born in Newcastle.

explain how its irrelevant

Like I said, you should know better.

The Central Coast is its own unique region. Who the f**k cares that it's close to Sydney? So is Newcastle and so is Wollongong and they've got teams.

Cental Coast has got the population and support to host a team. They shouldn't be denied a place just because they're in NSW.

Too bad those other cities also service much larger areas. Do you think it's only Townsville residents that attend Cowboys games? No, people travel 9+ hours to get to those games.

And how many people live within a 9 hour radius from Gosford that could go to Bears games?

The population of the Central Coast is on par with Townsville + Cairns and surrounds combined, the main areas where the Cowboys draw their crowds.

The Bears will also reignite old supporters in North Sydney who don't currently attend games. Not only will they go to home games at Gosford they're likely to be away fans at the Sydney clubs. The Bears are the only expansion club likely to increase away crowds for Sydney clubs.

If the Cowboys can compete for sponsorship in their area then the Bears will be fine with what they'll draw out of the Coast. They don't need Sydney sponsors to be financial stable.

Like I said in 20 years time Central Coast is still going to be larger than Canberra and your North Queensland Cowboys catchement.

I think the new CEO has proven to be much more proactive than Gallop, I presume he will have some more things to say in this area.

Hopefully he will be.

 

[Garbler]

Like I said, you should know better.

Nope you never said that, think someone's jimmies are rustled...

The Central Coast is its own unique region. Who the f**k cares that it's close to Sydney? So is Newcastle and so is Wollongong and they've got teams.

I think the Sydney teams might care LOL Do u seriously not understand that? Also it's a unique region is it? As opposed to those regions outside of sydney that aren't unique? hmmm

Central Coast has got the population and support to host a team. They shouldn't be denied a place just because they're in NSW.

Again never said that. But keep trying.

And how many people live within a 9 hour radius from Gosford that could go to Bears games?

Who knows. You definitely don't. Prob f*ck all really; see there are already plenty of teams in that 9 hour radius for those people, especially the kids, to go for. No one under the age of 13/14 would have any idea who the Bears are, so I don't see many families travelling 9 hours to support a CC side carrying the name of a team that died years ago.

The Bears are the only expansion club likely to increase away crowds for Sydney clubs.

Pretty far down the line as far as qualities for expansion, what do you think perhaps an extra 2k on seats for Sydney teams? Pretty sure the other bids have more on the table than that.

If the Cowboys can compete for sponsorship in their area then the Bears will be fine with what they'll draw out of the Coast. They don't need Sydney sponsors to be financial stable. Like I said in 20 years time Central Coast is still going to be larger than Canberra and your North Queensland Cowboys catchement.

All well and good, but doubt it will be good enough. And I don't own the North Queensland Cowboys catchment, I don't even support the Cowboys. Keep trying though you make enough assumptions and one day you could even be right!

 

[flippikat]

It will be. It's going to be the runt of all the expansion sides.

Like I said, look at Melbourne. They've been in the comp for 15 years, had success and even had a News Limited money stream. Admittedly they could have been funded better with a better development strategy but they're still struggling. Perth will go through similar issues. You need only look at the AFL. For all their grand talk after 30 years the Swans and Lions still need special assistance yet people somehow think that Adelaide won't. It's insane.


Then that would be bad management.

I strongly believe that a 2nd New Zealand team is a stronger prospect than an Adelaide team - for the forseeable future anyway.

The only thing that could change that is a big growth strategy for Adelaide - juniors, taking some NRL games there, and then getting a team of theirs in the NSWor Qld cup... things like that.

 

[Perth Red]

Like I said 2005 Perth had no hope of a NRL team and the game here was on its arse. Fast forward to 2010 and the WARL had transformed those prospects by rebuilding the game from the ground up. Ifg there is a will Adelaide could be in that same position within 10-15 years no problem. The doubtful thing is if there is a will and if the NRL has that much vision and strategy in it.

As for NZ, they haven't got anyone spear heading a bid or putting their hand up. Might change next year when expansion is back on the agenda but if the place was crying out for another team you would think someone would have put together a bid by now?

 

[docbrown]

I think the Sydney teams might care LOL Do u seriously not understand that?

f**k the Sydney teams. A Central Coast side isn't going to negatively impact them one bit.

They rant on about ALL the expansion sides claiming that they'll reduce their slice of the pie. They can't see how expansion leads to bigger overall slices.

No one under the age of 13/14 would have any idea who the Bears are

The Bears have been proactively involved in junior league so your claim that "no one" would have any idea is nonsense. They even have junior members.

Pretty far down the line as far as qualities for expansion, what do you think perhaps an extra 2k on seats for Sydney teams?

If the Bears can draw strong crowds at home and improve away crowds in Sydney (let's face it, that's half the season) then that's an advantage they'll have over a team from say Adelaide that draws smaller home crowds and lower away crowds. It shouldn't be discounted.

I've said before, if the NRL isn't serious about the Central Coast then they should set up the Bears in one of those interstate markets to get those away fans in Sydney. It's the same as the AFL Lions or Swans playing in Melbourne.

All well and good, but doubt it will be good enough.

Keep trying though you make enough assumptions and one day you could even be right! ;-)

 

[docbrown]

I strongly believe that a 2nd New Zealand team is a stronger prospect than an Adelaide team - for the forseeable future anyway.

I actually agree with that.

The only thing that could change that is a big growth strategy for Adelaide - juniors, taking some NRL games there,

The NRL should be doing that regardless of whether or not they're going to get a team.

 

[docbrown]

Ifg there is a will Adelaide could be in that same position within 10-15 years no problem.

And like I said you'd be overlooking stronger areas with stronger long term prospects that are ready to go even sooner for the sake of a dot on a map.

If the NRL never had a team in Adelaide it wouldn't be the end of the world.

As for NZ, they haven't got anyone spear heading a bid or putting their hand up.

I think the people involved in the bids at the moment are doing it either for the love of the game or their club (WARL and Bears) or are running their bids on shoestring budgets off the back of other business endeavors until the NRL firms up (ahem... Sage...?)

It's not like the NRL has said "Hey we're serious about expansion in New Zealand" so I can't blame anyone for not wanting to commit vast amounts of time and money on the whiff of a dream of expansion...

If the NRL wants the bids/areas to be more serious then the NRL needs to treat expansion seriously.

 

[Perth Red]

In all honesty if Brisbane, Perth and Gosford all had bids that ticked all the boxes which two do you think the NRL will chose?

I'd be interested to know from Bears fans if it is Gosford or nothing for you or if they would support the NS Bears opening up discussions with a Q'land bid?

 

[docbrown]

In all honesty if Brisbane, Perth and Gosford all had bids that ticked all the boxes which two do you think the NRL will chose?

Well unless the West Coast Pirates suddenly screw up or Sage develops a sense of reality and comes up with a decent plan, WCP are a lock.

Brisbane though doesn't have a bid ticking all the boxes. They should have though and if expansion does come up and we're still faced with the current lot of mediocre Brisbane bids, the NRL shouldn't bother with any of them. I'd rather see the Central Coast Bears or even the Brisbane Bears added then a club based on poor strategy.

Don't expand into Brisbane without the right team model and right people in place. If that means contracting people to build the club, then so be it.

But at the same time even if two other ideal clubs are accepted, the NRL should be making a decision about both the future of the Bears & the Central Coast at the same time. Forget about this "we won't know what the future will bring". It's the job of good management to anticipate future trends.

If that means making a timeline for the Central Coast Bears to enter as the 19th side then so be it.

If that means setting up the Bears in another market and phasing them into the comp over time then so be it.

I just hope the NRL can be proactive one way or the other.

That said, I still say pissing away the Central Coast and the Bears for the sake of a high risk long shot club in Adelaide or a dud Brisbane bid would be a mistake.

 

[flippikat]

I think the people involved in the bids at the moment are doing it either for the love of the game or their club (WARL and Bears) or are running their bids on shoestring budgets off the back of other business endeavors until the NRL firms up (ahem... Sage...?)

It's not like the NRL has said "Hey we're serious about expansion in New Zealand" so I can't blame anyone for not wanting to commit vast amounts of time and money on the whiff of a dream of expansion...

If the NRL wants the bids/areas to be more serious then the NRL needs to treat expansion seriously.

Exactly. Why spend time, energy & money on a bid if the NRL is muddled & lukewarm about expansion?

If they get their act together, the existing bids will become even more focused than now and new ones will surely emerge.

I also think that our best chance for a 2nd team is the expansion AFTER the coming one - while we have Brisbane2, Perth & the Central Coast jostling this expansion round (probably just 2 spots) then I think an eye for the long game is key.

Also, who can say what will happen after the upcoming expansion?

Relocation, more joint ventures, or even teams going under could happen, forcing the NRL's hand on decisions about further markets to expand to, earlier than planned.

 

[Perth Red]

Well unless the West Coast Pirates suddenly screw up or Sage develops a sense of reality and comes up with a decent plan, WCP are a lock.

Brisbane though doesn't have a bid ticking all the boxes. They should have though and if expansion does come up and we're still faced with the current lot of mediocre Brisbane bids, the NRL shouldn't bother with any of them. I'd rather see the Central Coast Bears or even the Brisbane Bears added then a club based on poor strategy.

.

Doc where do you see the Brisbane bids not ticking boxes? Bombers, for all of the dislike of the name, seem to be ticking everything except fan engagement. They have announced through Facebook they will soon be relaunching the website and having a membership for fans to show their support. Will be interesting to see if there are fans in Brisbane willing to back them.

Western Corridor have really not announced much so hard to say if they are playing their cards close to their chest or really are a long way behind.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

No one in Brisbane cares for the Bombers PR, seriously the fact you keep driving their thread here is a slap in the face to any league fan in the area. They were exposed as a cheap cop out from day dot, it's not just a lack of fan engagement but the entire structure which left a sour taste in local league supporters. At least Western Corridor is a different city, a growth place and a genuine league hub. Bombers don't even have an area of representation locked down, they change it every other day.

But you wouldn't know that, you just see a "bid" from "Brisbane" and straight away think its credible. That's the problem though, you're not from or in Brisbane. They're not credible, not by a bloody long shot.