Central Coast Bears NRL Bid.

[taipan]

Happy to be corrected, but i was under the impression they sold everything...

And anyway, if this has made them so much money, why not sell the land Shark Park is on and head up to SFS?

You could be the biggest club in Sydney.

Residential sales profits on one hand
Retail section on the Eastern Side of the Ground leasing to various reality outlets 99 years .Continuing income.
Own home ground ,no rental income.Only have to average 10,000 to break even at games.
Fan base in Shire ,membership at record levels ATM,14.300.
lf they get eventually an A League franchise further income.
They will be among the top 3 as it is.

Why would anyone in their right mind want to move to the SFS,more so when plans are to develop Shar's stadium?

 

[Perth Red]

All the money has gone so far on servicing their historic debt. Given they operate around $5mill a year below the top NRL clubs the deal will keep them sustainable, hopefully, and thats about it. Until they get a bigger fanbase and more consistent corporate level of support it will always be hard for the Sharkies. Credit to them though, they can attract players despite their poor financial situation.

 

[Perth Red]

Spot on.

Ideally the NRL & clubs would work together to identify emerging markets for 'adopted' home games, and set up the business model for this to succeed.

It's really the simplest way for the NRL to have a presence in new markets - especially those with little rugby league background. It beats me why we don't have a game or 2 (at least) per season in Adelaide for instance - just to build the code's profile.

The reason is simple, The NRL has no strategy plan. At the moment taking games to new markets is purely at the whim of clubs and dependent on if they think they can make a buck out of them. This makes them sporadic and year to year if NRL fans in those places will actually get to see a game live. This does nothing to grow the NRl audience or convert new people to NRL fans.

Until the NRL shows some leadership and actually has a plan for this it is never going to realise the potential it could.

 

[taipan]

All the money has gone so far on servicing their historic debt. Given they operate around $5mill a year below the top NRL clubs the deal will keep them sustainable, hopefully, and thats about it. Until they get a bigger fanbase and more consistent corporate level of support it will always be hard for the Sharkies. Credit to them though, they can attract players despite their poor financial situation.

That is incorrect.The profits from the residential don't come in until the first 300 units or so are sold.Their debt was taken over by a fan at extremely favourable rates.Money form units sales will come rolling in about 2018.
It was explained last year they would have broken even if not for legals etc re ASADA.Their membership was far less than this year and they have more sponsors big and small on board ,but a better Stadium sponsorship deal.
The sponsorship level is not only consistent but growing,and a refurbished stadium down the line will increase that aspect.
Players who come on board are made well aware of the clubs financials and where they will be within the next few years.They are not paying under for players,the reason Gallen and lewis took a pay cut for 2017 was to provide more money for their young stars.
They do not have to rely on poker machine monies to the extent that some of the wealthy clubs do;Eels.Roosters,Dragons,Dogs.
Your painting of their situation is not close to the mark.Their residential equity suggest so,as the early stages have already been sold out.
in fact the club is putting plans in addition to the current development, for a hotel and another 200 units.You underestimate what has been done and what is planned.

 

[taipan]

The reason is simple, The NRL has no strategy plan. At the moment taking games to new markets is purely at the whim of clubs and dependent on if they think they can make a buck out of them. This makes them sporadic and year to year if NRL fans in those places will actually get to see a game live. This does nothing to grow the NRl audience or convert new people to NRL fans.

Until the NRL shows some leadership and actually has a plan for this it is never going to realise the potential it could.

You are told time and time again.the plan for the ARLC is to ensure all,repeats all current NRL clubs are financially sustainable.ATM the clubs are trying to sort out what the next salary cap will be with the new TV deal.

The leadership wants a financially strong code.If the code as a whole eis not financially strong it has a weak leadership.As the Qld AFL clubs have shown ,all the money in the world and expansion does not provide the panacea.AFL clubs are in debt $99m.Is that a sign of strong leadership.The Essendon drug fiasco and the poor way the AFL handled it.Was that strong leadership?

The games played by the Eels in Darwin,the Dogs in Wellington and from memory Penrith in Christchurch does create interest in the NRL.
Just putting pins on maps to suit,does not guarantee strong leadership.

Do we want expansion? Of course,but not at the expense of the current clubs .

 

[Perth Red]

That is incorrect.The profits from the residential don't come in until the first 300 units or so are sold.Their debt was taken over by a fan at extremely favourable rates.Money form units sales will come rolling in about 2018.
It was explained last year they would have broken even if not for legals etc re ASADA.Their membership was far less than this year and they have more sponsors big and small on board ,but a better Stadium sponsorship deal.
The sponsorship level is not only consistent but growing,and a refurbished stadium down the line will increase that aspect.
Players who come on board are made well aware of the clubs financials and where they will be within the next few years.They are not paying under for players,the reason Gallen and lewis took a pay cut for 2017 was to provide more money for their young stars.
They do not have to rely on poker machine monies to the extent that some of the wealthy clubs do;Eels.Roosters,Dragons,Dogs.
Your painting of their situation is not close to the mark.Their residential equity suggest so,as the early stages have already been sold out.
in fact the club is putting plans in addition to the current development, for a hotel and another 200 units.You underestimate what has been done and what is planned.

Facts are the $10mill up front payment was all spent paying off debt. The club still has significant debt. The revenue from the units is not going to take te sharks revenue level to the top of the pile. It will make them more sustainable, if and its a big if, they can keep winning they will be ok. Their last few years financials make grim reading, hopefully next years are better, NRL is giving them an extra $1.5mill which will help.

 

[Perth Red]

You are told time and time again.the plan for the ARLC is to ensure all,repeats all current NRL clubs are financially sustainable.ATM the clubs are trying to sort out what the next salary cap will be with the new TV deal.

The leadership wants a financially strong code.If the code as a whole eis not financially strong it has a weak leadership.As the Qld AFL clubs have shown ,all the money in the world and expansion does not provide the panacea.AFL clubs are in debt $99m.Is that a sign of strong leadership.The Essendon drug fiasco and the poor way the AFL handled it.Was that strong leadership?

The games played by the Eels in Darwin,the Dogs in Wellington and from memory Penrith in Christchurch does create interest in the NRL.
Just putting pins on maps to suit,does not guarantee strong leadership.

Do we want expansion? Of course,but not at the expense of the current clubs .

NRL won't expand whilst all clubs are not financially strong we have been told. Despite massive grant increases in last 7 years clubs are no where near strong. Some of them may never be. In the mean time the afl has grown to be a national competition with 4 clubs in NRL heartlands and growth in their own heartlands. NRL has ONE club in Brisbane and ONE club in afl,heartland. At this rate, and waiting for all clubs to be financially strong, we might have caught up by 2045!

And no, having one off sporadic games does little to generate sustained interest in NRL. How can it? I see USA college am football is playing a game at ANZ this year, do you think that is going to create a lot of sustained interest on college football in Sydney?

 

[taipan]

Facts are the $10mill up front payment was all spent paying off debt. The club still has significant debt. The revenue from the units is not going to take te sharks revenue level to the top of the pile. It will make them more sustainable, if and its a big if, they can keep winning they will be ok. Their last few years financials make grim reading, hopefully next years are better, NRL is giving them an extra $1.5mill which will help.

Giving all the clubs extra BTW.Of course there is a decent debt,but the majority is not a bank debt.
We are fully cognisant of what the ASADA issue cost the football club.
I explained where the money will be coming from half share of profits on about 380 units,plus another 200 planned .$1m pa rental income retail,plus increase in licensed club revenue form restaurants and refurbished Leagues club,as a result of extra patronage from nearby residentials and retail.Owning their ground and code sharing down the line will add further monies.
Bruno Cullen was put in to the club by the NRL post ASADA for a couple of months.It was he who when studying the books,and plans made the statement about being in the top 3 or 4.Yet you look at only the current poor financial situation and ignore what is now in motion.Perhaps you should have a chat with Cullen,I mean what would he know.

 

[taipan]

NRL won't expand whilst all clubs are not financially strong we have been told. Despite massive grant increases in last 7 years clubs are no where near strong. Some of them may never be. In the mean time the afl has grown to be a national competition with 4 clubs in NRL heartlands and growth in their own heartlands. NRL has ONE club in Brisbane and ONE club in afl,heartland. At this rate, and waiting for all clubs to be financially strong, we might have caught up by 2045!

And no, having one off sporadic games does little to generate sustained interest in NRL. How can it? I see USA college am football is playing a game at ANZ this year, do you think that is going to create a lot of sustained interest on college football in Sydney?

Massive increases what the.Any massive increases will not take place til 2018,that is why there is uncertainty now by players as to what the cap will be ,and why some want to only signs for 1 year
You don't have to live on Mars with the financial situation of some clubs, to know the Knights were rogered by Fat Boy,and are now administered by professional people,and will be up for sale.The Titan's situation well known,now they are coming into the real world,.
The West tigers were a basket case,they too are starting to get back to stability with a pro admin.The Dragons also owing the NRL money,will get part privatisation from WINs Gordon family.The Eels a disaster this year will turn it around,they have a successful Leagues' club.

The AFL clubs with all the money expended ,freebies hands out in SEQ which has Southerners living on the coast,has been a disaster this year,and in the case of Brisbane more than this year and they are in serious debt.
The GWS Gnats,get underpinned by $20m pa,yet their only real support is in the ACT not Western Sydney (who ignore them) and the Swans when they play them.If that is your idea of some great success ,which many in the AFL question particularly as to Qld,then you are in a bubble.
Growth in their own heartlands'.Vic crowds are down ,and I understand junior numbers are dropping,the soccer influence perhaps.
The AFL have had the money to throw around for years the NRL has not.Yet you can't see it.

Darwin is not a one off,its a deal with the NT govt.Souths with WA..Dogs with Wellington.
its' funny you should mention one offs,In fact not was Carlton who played at the SCG many years before the Swans came(and they only came because they were financially stuffed) and nearly went broke twice.Yep expansion just to put pins on maps.

Oh and you cannot give any guarantee Perth will be financially underpinned and fully sustainable for ever.Bribane wins the AFL "flag" a couple of times and look at them now,an absolute basket case.

 

[Perth Red]

there are no guarantees in life, I'd be very surprised if Perth was fully sustainable for a long time given how small Rugby League is in reality. Doesn't mean it isn't a long term plan or that there isn't value add worth the investment. AFL got more TV money, mainly due to expansion, more than the expansion is costing them. they have also structured themselves to cover cost of expansion knowing it is a long term investment.

The deals are at whims of clubs with no strategy or involvement of planning about growing the game by the NRL, playing one game in Tassie, which was a huge success, has helped the game in Tassie how?

 

[taipan]

there are no guarantees in life, I'd be very surprised if Perth was fully sustainable for a long time given how small Rugby League is in reality. Doesn't mean it isn't a long term plan or that there isn't value add worth the investment. AFL got more TV money, mainly due to expansion, more than the expansion is costing them. they have also structured themselves to cover cost of expansion knowing it is a long term investment.

The deals are at whims of clubs with no strategy or involvement of planning about growing the game by the NRL, playing one game in Tassie, which was a huge success, has helped the game in Tassie how?

I'd really like to know ,what source do you have from the ARLC ,that there are zero plans for long term expansion.I don't know and journos pretend to know .
I will quote Money real estate
" Perth is now 3 years into a down phase exacerbated by the decline in the resources sector and the market is likely to hit bottom during 2016.With more seller than buyers ."
You understand many home owners have been hit with price drops against their loans.It would be careless of any admin ,to rush in with little money available(thanks SL war and Gallop's Tv deals of the past),and ignore their current clubs and fans.If you wish to dump a Sydney club just to expand,the Swans and GWS will say thanks very much.

I understand your frustration,and I want teh game to be national as much as the next man,but not at the expense of current clubs.If we haven't learnt from the Bear,s debacle ,we never will.

 

[Perth Red]

They've been talking about expansion since 2008, now they're not even talking about it. The chances of expansion before 2021-23 are virtually none, especially if this NRL administration stays the same. Any admin that thinks playing a game that finishes at 10pm on a Thursday night in front of 75000 empty seats Is a good idea clearly has no idea about how to grow the future of the game.

In terms of Perth they are still predicting the population will be 3.5mill by 2050. Every professional sport in the country recognises you need a Perth team in a national comp, except one.

 

[axl rose]

In terms of Perth they are still predicting the population will be 3.5mill by 2050. Every professional sport in the country recognises you need a Perth team in a national comp, except one.

They still don't recognise they need a team playing out out Suncorp every week.

 

[Perth Red]

Exactly, but when the commission appoints a CEO whose first interview includes "I'm no visionary" what can you hope for?

 

[taipan]

They've been talking about expansion since 2008, now they're not even talking about it. The chances of expansion before 2021-23 are virtually none, especially if this NRL administration stays the same. Any admin that thinks playing a game that finishes at 10pm on a Thursday night in front of 75000 empty seats Is a good idea clearly has no idea about how to grow the future of the game.

In terms of Perth they are still predicting the population will be 3.5mill by 2050. Every professional sport in the country recognises you need a Perth team in a national comp, except one.

Talking in the press yes,and a few NRL hangers on.There has been nothing official(ARLC the final arbitrate
rs) other than "It's not on our radar ATM" Grant.Have not heard a Commissioner state there will be no expansion discussions post 2018 deal or during 2018 deal.

You do understand why we have this crappy scheduling? Because the clubs and the code needed a $2bn deal.Else they couldn;t underpin the clubs or have money available for grassroots.
Grant has specifically stated they will be spending $100m out of the next 2018Tv deal on grassroots.\
You do know from 2018 the NRL controls the scheduling?
You say except one,you and I have no real idea what they want.

Is your idea to go ahead and expand when the H/O has little money and let some of the current NRL clubs wither?Stuff their fans.
The AFL did not expand when they had little money to do so.The ARL prior to 1995 ,because they had decent money in the Bank did.

I've recently had my brother in law and his wife move to Perth,because of the cheap housing by comparison here.His son is living there.

If China takes a decent tumble economically,they will be giving away houses in WA.Don't rely on computer modelling.Remember the clown,who stated the Warragamba dam would be empty due to global warming about 10 years ago.Believe things when they happen,don't predict,assume, it comes back to bite you.
You were the one who wanted to punt the Sharks LOL.

The Force part of the so called national aspect ,are in deep financial trouble.

 

[Perth Red]

haha of course they will, Perth is a boom or bust place, has been since they discovered gold in the 1800's. It will now potter along for a few years until the next high demand for iron or they open some of the massive gas fields offshore. Then it will boom again. I actually much prefer it not in boom, prices of everything were ridiculous 2012-2015. House prices have always been significantly less than most capital cities in terms of what you can get for your money. My house in regards to size and location would be three times the price in Sydney at least.

My idea is to have a clear strategy for expanding the NRL that is shared with fans so we know that we aren't just being led up the garden path like we have been for 7 years. At least now we know there will be no expansion anytime soon, previously they were not committal either way and played on the hope that the squillions extra revenue realised in the last two TV deals would see the game grow its footprint. The response of Perth RL fans to that NO expansion is clear to see this year in crowds at games.

Cronulla last year were about $8mill in revenue behind the leading revenue clubs. They are still carrying around $4mill in debt. I'd love to know how Cullen could see them making up this deficit?

re Force, they have been an absolute basket case here (think Titans and double it), they started off with 25k crowds and biggest membership in Super15 and failed season after failed season has seen them dwindle to around 12-14k crowds (still wouldn't be as bas as some NRl teams). They only lost $800k, which in NRl club land would be insignificant compared to some losses, but wanted the ARU support. ARU seeing the value of a perth club quashed the relocation rumours and took over elements of operations. Why? Because having a perth club in your competition is valuable. One day the NRL will see that.

 

[taipan]

haha of course they will, Perth is a boom or bust place, has been since they discovered gold in the 1800's. It will now potter along for a few years until the next high demand for iron or they open some of the massive gas fields offshore. Then it will boom again. I actually much prefer it not in boom, prices of everything were ridiculous 2012-2015. House prices have always been significantly less than most capital cities in terms of what you can get for your money. My house in regards to size and location would be three times the price in Sydney at least.

My idea is to have a clear strategy for expanding the NRL that is shared with fans so we know that we aren't just being led up the garden path like we have been for 7 years. At least now we know there will be no expansion anytime soon, previously they were not committal either way and played on the hope that the squillions extra revenue realised in the last two TV deals would see the game grow its footprint. The response of Perth RL fans to that NO expansion is clear to see this year in crowds at games.

Cronulla last year were about $8mill in revenue behind the leading revenue clubs. They are still carrying around $4mill in debt. I'd love to know how Cullen could see them making up this deficit?

re Force, they have been an absolute basket case here (think Titans and double it), they started off with 25k crowds and biggest membership in Super15 and failed season after failed season has seen them dwindle to around 12-14k crowds (still wouldn't be as bas as some NRl teams). They only lost $800k, which in NRl club land would be insignificant compared to some losses, but wanted the ARU support. ARU seeing the value of a perth club quashed the relocation rumours and took over elements of operations. Why? Because having a perth club in your competition is valuable. One day the NRL will see that.

You keep banging on as if it won't ever happen,now its "anytime soon".

Perhaps you can put froward your theories to Cullen.
Cullen did a complete audit,he also went into details re the development and residential developments already approved by the Council and EPA.
I suggest profits alone on more than 300 units ,would be min $38m,that has been upped since.Throw in $1m rental pa on retail.Throw in profits on another 200 planned close to retail,and you get the gist.These latter amendments were not part of Cullen's calls BTW.

You do understand the football club will become less and less reliant on poker machine monies.Considering the ASADA dramas they could have been worse off.

The NRL strategy ATM is grassroots $100m pa,ensuring all current NRL clubs are financially fit,players are well compensated so Union can't continue to pillage,contributions to new or refurbished stadiums,addtional monies to clubs to assist in marketing and other associated activities.,lobbying Govts for grants .That is fairly transparent to fans.
We bang on about the lack of grassroots support around the country.,from 2018 surely spending decent money on grassroots is a good thing,finally.
You must have dragged them to the car races.


The reason the ARU stepped in was Tv contracts with SANZAR,just as the NRLs stepped in for the Titans.
Regardless of the ARU stepping in, the Force are struggling crowd wise at home and bring zilch to other Oz franchises.If they flicked the Force that would be the end of it in WA.
I don't know how many monday our thursday nights the Force play on,or their appearances on FTA.But I suggest zilch to all.
Perhaps also they(the ARU) may have learnt flicking clubs (enter Nth Sydney Bears) ,opens the door for other codes.The rest of their Oz franchises are losing money hand over foot.Hardly the panacea for the NRL to follow.

 

[CC_Roosters]

They've been talking about expansion since 2008, now they're not even talking about it. The chances of expansion before 2021-23 are virtually none, especially if this NRL administration stays the same. Any admin that thinks playing a game that finishes at 10pm on a Thursday night in front of 75000 empty seats Is a good idea clearly has no idea about how to grow the future of the game.

In terms of Perth they are still predicting the population will be 3.5mill by 2050. Every professional sport in the country recognises you need a Perth team in a national comp, except one.

Post of the month, well said.

 

[Perth Red]

Never said it will never happen. I am sure at some point in time the NRL will,grow up, stop being a pseudo nswrl and grow its national footprint inc in NZ. Just not in the next 5 or so years. By the time it happens it is likely to be around 15 years since Perth got its act together and started pushing for admission. One thing you can say about rugby league is it never rushes into things lol

Then again if they are waiting for all 16 clubs to be financially strong we might as well say never.

 

[taipan]

Never said it will never happen. I am sure at some point in time the NRL will,grow up, stop being a pseudo nswrl and grow its national footprint inc in NZ. Just not in the next 5 or so years. By the time it happens it is likely to be around 15 years since Perth got its act together and started pushing for admission. One thing you can say about rugby league is it never rushes into things lol

Then again if they are waiting for all 16 clubs to be financially strong we might as well say never.

Think you need to go back over all your postings re inferences about expansion.
Any code or business that is hog tied financially can only do so much,usually little chance of expansion.
AFL has had that luxury for many years.The ARL did when they had money in the bank prior 95,and lost the lot through the SL war,and we know the end result.And we didn't have AFL Swans going strong in Sydney prior to 95.

I think you must be the guy behind Dick Smith ,hang it just expand syndrome.Or the expansive Masters stores trying to take on Bunnings

Pseudo NSWRL LOL.Then that being the case why hasn't Brisbane got a 2nd club?Try the Broncos/News influence.
The Cowboys,Warriors,all had financial problems in the early stages.One in heartland one in union territory.

When the AFL was getting $780m Tv deals,the NRL got $500m.Who was involved with Tv negotiations then?
Likewise the next deal dudded. From 2018 at least we have a big deal,and we will have control of scheduling.
They(AFL) are still getting their fingers burnt even with all the AFL money poured in to expansion and to the detriment of a few of their Melbourne clubs.

If you had your way a team in Perth, there would be up to 3 clubs ditched in Sydney,GWS getting a stack more fans and a 3rd Fumbleball club domiciled in Sydney.
You do not give a stuff about fans in Sydney clubs,.it's all about you.Probably cheered when Nth Sydney was flicked.oiu do not give a stuff about the neglected grassroots in NSW or Qld.

The Commission has in the main, business people,successful ones at that.I believe they would have a fair idea about growing a business,and how successful or not that would be without sufficient funding and with some of your current businesses needing assistance.Sure if those said businesses were unsustainable then they would flick them.Please show us which NRL club is unsustainable long term?

Please advise which NRL clubs you want to flick to achieve your ends?