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Central Coast Bears - Stand Aside

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AlwaysGreen

Immortal
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49,486
I don't think it would. Qlds already watch league as does the cc. Both have pay tv and both are heartlands. So now we go to population. Cc + ns =1.5m. Ips = 200k and Cq = 260k. I'd assume that 10 xs outta 10 a population of 1.5m is gonna bring more revenue then ones that don't even break 300k....

R&BB, these figures don't auger well with your membership figures.

4500 members (I think I'm being generous) out of a population of 1.5million tells me that only 0.3% of the CC population is a bears member, that is a person willing to support the bears if they are included. Obviously, more would get on board if the bears came in, but more than if a 4th QLD team came in? Doubtful.
Also, I'd think you'd find that many people in Brisbane who don't support the broncos or presently support a non queensland side may switch allegiances to a new qld team. So you could say the potential population to support a 4th QLD team is Ipswich + Brisbane = 2m. CQLD, I admit does have issues with population and at the moment are a long shot for any expansion. But who knows, stranger things have happened (Qatar winning 2022WC for example).
It comes down to number of teams per state but nsw still have a bigger population. So you go where the fish are. Next arguement...
Not really.
NSW population = 7.2 million, 11 teams (present) - 654,454 per team
12 teams - 600,000 per team
QLD population = 4.4 million 3 teams (present) - 1,466,000 per team
4 teams - 1,100,000 per team
 

Red&BlackBear

First Grade
Messages
5,140
You realize qlds population is heavily saturated and not in the areas bidding for a team therefore the numbers are irrelevant. However the ccbears numbers and population are in the area we are bidding for. Just because Ipswich has a team do you think the pop Sunnycoast or Logan would follow them? Like wise central qld, would the pop of Ipswich follow them? Now if the bid was seqld like most have suggested then your numbers would be correct but it's not. It's Ipswich for Ipswich by Ipswich.

As for memberships stop being harsh mate, we are trying and working hard on our drives. Why don't you mention the other bids memberships.. Oh that's right there isn't any....
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
I don't think it would. Qlds already watch league as does the cc. Both have pay tv and both are heartlands. So now we go to population. Cc + ns =1.5m. Ips = 200k and Cq = 260k. I'd assume that 10 xs outta 10 a population of 1.5m is gonna bring more revenue then ones that don't even break 300k.

It comes down to number of teams per state but nsw still have a bigger population. So you go where the fish are. Next arguement...

You are ignoring the fact that Qld is a huge NRL market, and will within 20 years be Australia's second largest state, and that having 4 teams would give the NRL excellent TV broadcast options for pay and free to air, thus boosting the tv rights.

The Bears will have no such effect.

Your 1.5m figure for CC and North Sydney is grossly overstated - it is actually 1m total for North Sydney and CC, of which there will be a lot of rusted on fans of other teams, not to mention the strong AFL/RU element of the north shore. I'm not saying there aren't people there but 1.5m is drawing a very long bow.

Similarily, your figure for Ipswich ignores the fact there is Toowoomba not far to the west, and Springfield-Logan area to the East - both large population centres, and in the case of Sprinfield-Logan very fast growing
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
You realize qlds population is heavily saturated and not in the areas bidding for a team therefore the numbers are irrelevant. However the ccbears numbers and population are in the area we are bidding for. Just because Ipswich has a team do you think the pop Sunnycoast or Logan would follow them? Like wise central qld, would the pop of Ipswich follow them? Now if the bid was seqld like most have suggested then your numbers would be correct but it's not. It's Ipswich for Ipswich by Ipswich.

As for memberships stop being harsh mate, we are trying and working hard on our drives. Why don't you mention the other bids memberships.. Oh that's right there isn't any....

Qld's population isn't "heavily saturated" whatever that means. I admit the CQ bid is no hope, and in Mackay it will eat into the Cowboys.

Ipswich/South West Brisbane/Logan/Toowoomba area on the other hand has a huge population, not far short of your CC/North Sydney catchement.

SE Qld is a large area with a very large and fast growing population, currently with only 2 teams sharing roughly 3.5m people. They can accomodate a 3rd easily and you look foolish for arguing they can't.

Your Sunny coast arguement is absurd - how many Sydney club fans are in Queensland? They seem to get by ok being over 1000 kms from Sydney.

Also, I see you couldn't help yourself but to bring up the Bears "memberships" again. Its one of only a few things going for the bid.

The longer the process of expansion goes, the faster the prospects of the Bears deminishes.
 

Red&BlackBear

First Grade
Messages
5,140
Cc and ns still have a bigger population then ipswich, Logan and toowoomba combined. Both area love their league and the gc and Brisbane are actually closer to this hub then what Sydney and Newcastle are to the cc. Both areas are rl heartlands. Both areas have pay tv viewers. The population is growing on par on the cc as it is in this swqld corridor. We have a stadium at home. Minimal travel. Swqld have a stadium an hour away at Brisbane with poorish transport.

One motor way that brings Brisbane and ipswich together which is the worst motorway in qld. Train services don't cover all of Ipswich. If they can get a stadium more power them. Otherwise it's going to be a logistical nightmare for the councils of Ipswich and Brisbane to make this work. But that happens when you lack resources and a plan.
 

AlwaysGreen

Immortal
Messages
49,486
You realize qlds population is heavily saturated and not in the areas bidding for a team therefore the numbers are irrelevant. However the ccbears numbers and population are in the area we are bidding for. Just because Ipswich has a team do you think the pop Sunnycoast or Logan would follow them? Like wise central qld, would the pop of Ipswich follow them? Now if the bid was seqld like most have suggested then your numbers would be correct but it's not. It's Ipswich for Ipswich by Ipswich.
How can the numbers for the CC be relevant but the QLD ones not? Mate, you're assuming that a large proportion of the 1.5m people living in north sydney and the central coast are immediately going to jump aboard the beartrain, why can't it be assumed that a large proportion of Qld won't jump on the 4th QLD teamtrain?
As for memberships stop being harsh mate, we are trying and working hard on our drives. Why don't you mention the other bids memberships.. Oh that's right there isn't any....
That's because their is no official expansion process in operation because there has been no official call for expansion. The bears push for inclusion into the NRL centres on community support - at the moment its only a ripple in a bath tub, despite all your hardwork. You can spend your whole life working on something doesn't mean its going to get you anywhere.
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
Cc and ns still have a bigger population then ipswich, Logan and toowoomba combined. Both area love their league and the gc and Brisbane are actually closer to this hub then what Sydney and Newcastle are to the cc. Both areas are rl heartlands. Both areas have pay tv viewers. The population is growing on par on the cc as it is in this swqld corridor.

Now you have changed your opinion and are talking up Ipswich. Which is it, are you against it or for it?

We have a stadium at home. Minimal travel. Swqld have a stadium an hour away at Brisbane with poorish transport.

You are ignoring the fact they have been promised a stadium by the Qld gov and plan to play major games at Suncorp, probably the best RL stadium in the world.

One motor way that brings Brisbane and ipswich together which is the worst motorway in qld. Train services don't cover all of Ipswich. If they can get a stadium more power them. Otherwise it's going to be a logistical nightmare for the councils of Ipswich and Brisbane to make this work. But that happens when you lack resources and a plan.

From what I understand, they want to build a stadium to the East of Ipswich in a greenfield site, not in the centre of the city. And you are grossly over stating the transport issues. You could say similar things about getting to Gosford from North Sydney - trains are crap, freeway is ok, but that road to Gosford from the freeway is terrible. How are you going to get your precious North Sydney based fans there? The NSW Gov and Central Coast Gov should be worried about this logistical nightmare.

Do you see how stupid your alarmist statements are?
 
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Red&BlackBear

First Grade
Messages
5,140
Qld's population isn't "heavily saturated" whatever that means. I admit the CQ bid is no hope, and in Mackay it will eat into the Cowboys.

Ipswich/South West Brisbane/Logan/Toowoomba area on the other hand has a huge population, not far short of your CC/North Sydney catchement.

SE Qld is a large area with a very large and fast growing population, currently with only 2 teams sharing roughly 3.5m people. They can accomodate a 3rd easily and you look foolish for arguing they can't.

Your Sunny coast arguement is absurd - how many Sydney club fans are in Queensland? They seem to get by ok being over 1000 kms from Sydney.

Also, I see you couldn't help yourself but to bring up the Bears "memberships" again. Its one of only a few things going for the bid.

The longer the process of expansion goes, the faster the prospects of the Bears deminishes.

it means the population isn't spread out. The main hubs of Brisbane, gold coast are saturated and have teams. Ipswich and swqld has a small population with a lack of infrastructure. This bid is Ipswich not se or swqld so immediately they are concentrating on their hub. Therefore counting Logan, toowoomba etc means squat. Like I said if the bid was for se or sw qld then they'd be good eventually. But it's not it's Ipswich for Ipswich by Ipswich.

Anyone that's lived in Ipswich will tell you what a nightmare it can be travelling into Brisbane and vise verser. This bid is good in 15 years.

The cc and ns have the population now that Ipswich is projected to get. We have the resources now and te funds now. Our bid goes in next year and that's always been the case. For every moment that passes other bids strengthen their bid but it's foolish to assume we aren't also. We have a huge head start and plan on keeping that lead until the end. All these reason why we shouldn't have a team is good. It makes us see what else we need to do to make out bid water tight, rock solid. I should actually thank you bobmar because you are helping us without realizing it.
 

Red&BlackBear

First Grade
Messages
5,140
How can the numbers for the CC be relevant but the QLD ones not? Mate, you're assuming that a large proportion of the 1.5m people living in north sydney and the central coast are immediately going to jump aboard the beartrain, why can't it be assumed that a large proportion of Qld won't jump on the 4th QLD teamtrain?

That's because their is no official expansion process in operation because there has been no official call for expansion. The bears push for inclusion into the NRL centres on community support - at the moment its only a ripple in a bath tub, despite all your hardwork. You can spend your whole life working on something doesn't mean its going to get you anywhere.

Because if they both add the same value to the game which is minimal regardless how you look at it then the best bid of the 2 must be considered. This is where a bigger population, stadium, memberships and community engagement come into the picture. The difference is the Bears have an existing fan base built over the decades. The Jets also do too but no where near as much nor do they have the commitment from supporters or community.

The NRL were the ones who suggested we get memberships. So we set it at 5000 by March and they have expressed their excitement at the fact we are growing these memberships consistently weekly. We currently sit above 4200 in early December.

Now you have changed your opinion and are talking up Ipswich. Which is it, are you against it or for it?

You are ignoring the fact they have been promised a stadium by the Qld gov and plan to play major games at Suncorp, probably the best RL stadium in the world.

From what I understand, they want to build a stadium to the East of Ipswich in a greenfield site, not in the centre of the city. And you are grossly over stating the transport issues. You could say similar things about getting to Gosford from North Sydney - trains are crap, freeway is ok, but that road to Gosford from the freeway is terrible. How are you going to get your precious North Sydney based fans there? The NSW Gov and Central Coast Gov should be worried about this logistical nightmare.

Do you see how stupid your alarmist statements are?


Ok. I'm from Ipswich or the outskirts originally. My family is based there and I believe I know the demographics of the area alot better then you.

Suncorp is the best RL ground in the world. Doesn't change the fact Ipswich is an hour away from it. Where as CC already have their own stadium. QLD government promising 2 stadiums now? To both Central QLD and Ipswich? Yeah and pigs fly. Anna Bligh will not be around next elections and the Liberals have not shown any commitment to any stadiums as they would rather fix the roads.

The CCBears have support from both Labor and Liberals on both a state and national level. Major difference between other bids. We have a stadium already therefor logistics isn't that hard when the community have their stadium in their backyard.

You wanna talk about trains and freeways being crap. Come live in Ipswich. Their mayor has been arguing to the state governments about upgrading for years with no outcome yet!

As someone who has lived both in Ipswich and the CC in the last 5 years. I say if anyone's argument is flawed it's from outsiders who simply think throwing darts at a board is the best outcome. Without proper planning or building up, you will have a weak foundation. Thank you.

I'm for an Ipswich team... in 2020 when its realistic and 2020 is only 9 years away!
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
Because the Roosters are wealthy but have too few supporters and a small geographical area. The Sharks have a vast area to draw on and a great name. Merge = Eastern Sharks.

Too few for what? It clearly isn't having any impact on our viability. We don't need to merge and never will.
 

chefman21

Juniors
Messages
1,220
He isn't the owner he's the Chairman.... and there are that many rich blokes on our board, I'm sure Politis will find someone to succeed him.

He's invested enough into us to be virtually the owner. What's the problem with consolidating with new members and juniors and to become an even stronger club? Any real reason?
 

dgsfan

Juniors
Messages
1,202
Because if they both add the same value to the game which is minimal regardless how you look at it then the best bid of the 2 must be considered. This is where a bigger population, stadium, memberships and community engagement come into the picture. The difference is the Bears have an existing fan base built over the decades. The Jets also do too but no where near as much nor do they have the commitment from supporters or community.

I disagree. When the new TV deal is signed an extra FTA game is definitely in the mix. Would Nine or whoever has the rights want an extra game involving another QLD team or another NSW team? I think the answer is obvious, even you should see that through your red and black glasses.

You also have to consider finals. This year the Broncos and Cowboys were missing. Adding another QLD team increases the chance of more QLD teams in the finals series, thus increasing ratings. I know you're a Bears fan but you have to see the benefits that another QLD team has that far outweigh that of a cc team.
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,071
He's invested enough into us to be virtually the owner. What's the problem with consolidating with new members and juniors and to become an even stronger club? Any real reason?

I think the Sharks have more to gain out of a merger with the Roosters in the Short term - not just an injection of funds, but the "Know how" and systems of a team that has shown that it can make it to a grand final.

However the Roosters have something to gain in the longer term.. Juniors and members.

The strengths complement each other.. From a neutral view, it's a good match.

Geography need not be an issue too, given that the Tigers and Dragons joint ventures are not formed from neighboring districts.

I know I've spoken in support of this a lot here recently, but given the success of the other 2 joint ventures it looks like the most promising step that can be taken to rationalize Sydney.

It's not as though the Sharks and Roosters are mortal enemies (ala Norths and Manly)...
 

chefman21

Juniors
Messages
1,220
I think the Sharks have more to gain out of a merger with the Roosters in the Short term - not just an injection of funds, but the "Know how" and systems of a team that has shown that it can make it to a grand final.

However the Roosters have something to gain in the longer term.. Juniors and members.

The strengths complement each other.. From a neutral view, it's a good match.

Geography need not be an issue too, given that the Tigers and Dragons joint ventures are not formed from neighboring districts.

I know I've spoken in support of this a lot here recently, but given the success of the other 2 joint ventures it looks like the most promising step that can be taken to rationalize Sydney.

It's not as though the Sharks and Roosters are mortal enemies (ala Norths and Manly)...

From a biased Roosters supporter I can see far more benefits than disadvantages. The way of the future is strong clubs with a strong member base and a good junior base. And the way of the future in my opinion is less clubs in Sydney covering wider areas with stronger member bases.
 

mightybears

Bench
Messages
4,342
No, you can't ask how old I am. If the Northern Eagles venture had worked out the CC would have a team now. The only other way CC will get a team is if a Sydney team merges or fails which will free up a franchise for the Central Coast imo.

My bold, i asked the age question because you must have been out of the country otherwise, not to know.

But it was never going too!, it was cobbled together literally in weeks by Judas few, 'leading' a team shown the door but who had done the hard yards re expansion and a team that had just made the so called criteria and who needed the JV cash to survive short term and who never had any intention of sticking with the JV when they got more financial.

The rivalry between the NS and MW is the most intense in the game precisely because we sucked and they didn't, because some of our players saw greener fields, because arko had rep honours to hand out, because they won stuff and we didn't. Did they 'JV' Wests with Canterbury, Penrith with Parra [because both of those two teams share a geography? and nothing else]. You seem to have no idea of the viseral loathing Norths fans have for the [more sucessful] neighbour that we supported braking away from our area in 1946. That the JV was pushed by that maggot Beattie was an affront to 50 plus years of angst and fundamentally misunderstood a culture that he should of known as a given.
 
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mightybears

Bench
Messages
4,342
I disagree. When the new TV deal is signed an extra FTA game is definitely in the mix. Would Nine or whoever has the rights want an extra game involving another QLD team or another NSW team? I think the answer is obvious, even you should see that through your red and black glasses.

You also have to consider finals. This year the Broncos and Cowboys were missing. Adding another QLD team increases the chance of more QLD teams in the finals series, thus increasing ratings. I know you're a Bears fan but you have to see the benefits that another QLD team has that far outweigh that of a cc team.

The answer is that nine [seven, ten, foxtel etc] want another game period.

I have lived in Qld more more than a decade and know that there is minimal difference in the value of a team here, as opposed to a team on the CC
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,071
The answer is that nine [seven, ten, foxtel etc] want another game period.

I have lived in Qld more more than a decade and know that there is minimal difference in the value of a team here, as opposed to a team on the CC

You're right. The bottom line for tv is getting an extra game.. So it'll be 2 more teams in the next expansion.

The Bears and Reds are so far advanced in their plans, that they're virtual dead-certs, UNLESS expansion is delayed any further.

The biggest problem is that the Bears will just continue the current dilemma.. How can we balance the competition between NSW and non-NSW, without diluting the player pool too heavily?
 
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