Challenge Cup 2007 *Quarterfinals*

[bartman]

It should be left as a club competition, that's the beauty of the Challenge Cup. Imagine if over the years it were to (sustainably) developto include every club in domestic competition in Europe or a selection of the top flite clubs from each competition (like Heiniken Cup, European Champions League etc)?

If a heftier European rep schedule was currently possible or could be (sustainably) developed alongside it, then that woul dbe a much better long term option for the code. I have much respect for the five european clubs that enter, hope they can afford to play each year and wish them well.

 

[deluded pom?]

The Russian clubs would usually beat amateur clubs

The Russian champions usually struggle against amateur opposition. I saw Kazan beaten by the Hull champions Embassy a while back. Embassy would get hammered by the likes of West Hull, Skirlaugh, Siddal etc. I hate to think what they would have done to Kazan. It must be demoralising for the Russians to come across year after year and really struggle to beat even mediocre amateur opponents. Even worse if they were to lose. Fife drawing one of the top amateur teams is a total no contest and is just an expensive jolly that, for me, does nothing to enhance the gameof RL.

 

[bowes]

I do agree that the top amateur teams would beat the Russian teams but they never actually play those teams, as they usually bith enter in the third round where they automatically draw a NL side (the draw's actually rigged to keep them apart) so this doesn't happen. Now they've gone back to a team in the 2nd round (like they used to and once a Russian team beat an amateur club) it may happen. Why bother entering a rep side it should be club or nothing, what would having a rep side in acheive? The clubs are happy to enter (and can afford it, or is it subsidised?) so why change it. I don't think Fife should be in now they've scrapped the Preliminary Round as they are a RLC Regional club and far better sides like Sharlston miss out. A rep side would be little better but a complete waste of time

 

[Eastender]

Always hard to tell how the Army, Navy, Air Force, and the University team will shape up in comparison as well.

Anybody know whether the RAF will be playing their tie at RAF Uxbridge???

 

[bowes]

Yes I think so, Navy at Portsmouth and Army at Aldershot. Not sure whether entering those sort of teams is a good idea either, although they are strong teams.

 

[deluded pom?]

Aren't the services teams rep teams? Takes away from the club or nothing argument.

 

[bowes]

Yeah to be fair they shouldn't be in. The Russian sides have to be clubs though and I think a Scottish rep side smacks of tokenism so it should be the champion club or nothing.

 

[Eastender]

Yes I think so, Navy at Portsmouth and Army at Aldershot. Not sure whether entering those sort of teams is a good idea either, although they are strong teams.

Presumably civilians can turn up to watch these games???

 

[bowes]

Yeah they must be able to otherwise I would have thought they wouldn't be allowed to play there. Not sure what part of the base so it would need to be checked out before if you're planning on going

 

[Eastender]

Yeah they must be able to otherwise I would have thought they wouldn't be allowed to play there. Not sure what part of the base so it would need to be checked out before if you're planning on going

Cheers, Sports ground at RAF Uxbridge seems easier enough to find.

 

[deluded pom?]

Yes I think so, Navy at Portsmouth and Army at Aldershot. Not sure whether entering those sort of teams is a good idea either, although they are strong teams.

And why are they strong teams? Because they have a larger squad of players to choose from than any of the other teams in the competition. If the rep teams of Ireland , Russia and Scotland were entered then I would like to think they'd fare better than a stand alone club side. Isn't it better for each of those to get more experience by being in a stronger team, and progressing further, than to be in a club side that gets thrashed by sixty points in the first round?

 

[bowes]

No it would be stupid. Rep sides should only play other rep sides. Russian clubs don't lose by 60 points in the first round or even enter at the first round and it would be heavily degrading to enter the Russian national side into the Challenge Cup and they wouldn't want to. The Scottish club maybe but why should they get a rep side in the Challenge Cup, surely when the Scottish Rep side loses to an amateur club (which they would to some) it would be far worse? Also it's incredibly patronising to say they can't enter clubs so they can enter a rep side instead and not sure what it would acheive. Of course they would do better but it wouldn't mean much and in practice the players would mostly be from the same clubs that enter anyway (and it is so deep in the off-season for Scottish/Irish clubs so they wouldn't have the best players anyway). Clubs or nothing, I;d rather not see the forces rep sides in either if I'm honest, but national rep sides would be pathetic

 

[bartman]

We need to aim for both - keeping a club competition with a view to the development of european involvement as affordable and sustainable, and having some more options in the calendars for those national or regional or rep teams (forces, students) within europe to meet and further their standing, again where affordable and sustainable.

I'd hate to see us cut short those twin long-term ambitions by combining the two in the short term into the challenge cup, any more than we already have.

 

[Eastender]

And why are they strong teams? Because they have a larger squad of players to choose from than any of the other teams in the competition. If the rep teams of Ireland , Russia and Scotland were entered then I would like to think they'd fare better than a stand alone club side. Isn't it better for each of those to get more experience by being in a stronger team, and progressing further, than to be in a club side that gets thrashed by sixty points in the first round?

The idea of rep teams from Ireland, Scotland and Russia aside, I think Service teams in the Challenge Cup is important for the continued development of the game within the services (remember it's not much more than ten years since RL was officially recognised by Armed Forces). The "carrot" of potentially playing and beating a National League team in the 3rd round and the associated prestige and media covergae must be a big pull to players considering both codes.

 

[deluded pom?]

Rep sides seem to work ok in the English cricket cups. Ireland and Scotland regularly compete in them and do quite well. I see no reason why we couldn't do the same in RL. Isn't SOME good experience better than a TOTALLY bad one?

 

[bowes]

Cricket they are county teams so it's different again, and they have very limited entry.

I just think Scotland rep losing to Hull Isberg by 40 points would be far worse than Fife losing to them by 60 points and really don't see why it needs changing. If it needs changing it's for less teams and have them start against semi-pro clubs. If it reduces the Scottish team's the first to go. The Scottish rep side plays the Irish and Welsh reps and an English RLC Rep which is far more productive than entering them into the Challenge Cup which would be counterproductive in the scheme of things and smack of tokenism. I don't actually agree with including a Scottish side as they are in the Regional (not even Premier) of the RLC and think it's just to give media impression, but seeing Fife playing looks far better to someone that doesn't know the situation than seeing a Scottish rep side which looks stupid and gives the impression that all the clubs in Scotland between them can't beat Askam which is true but doesn't need to be publicised.

Scottish teams have been entering for about 5 years and if it was totally bad surely it would have been stopped by now? Entering a rep side would not be a good experience as they'd still lose badly but not have the consolation that they were playing as their club

 

[deluded pom?]

Ok we'll agree to disagree on this one. Nice of you to mention Hull Isberg though. My cousin's their coach

 

[bowes]

Yeah seems the sensible thing to do at least with Scotland, Ireland etc. A Russian rep side would be unnecessary (and they'd tell you to f**k off if you offered them the chance of entering a rep team instead of clubs) as they're better than some of the heartland teams but it could be workable with the other home nations and seems logical to agree to disagree on whether them or clubs would work better

As for Hull Isberg do you know if they're staying National Conference League next season or going back to the Hull league as I've heard rumours they may leave the NCL?

 

[brendothejet]

Im way down here in OZ so can pretty much only follow the CC online.

I do hwoever wish that we had something like this in Australia. My trainer and coach are both from england and played in many CC matches ranging from amateur clubs to NL teams.

It must be an awesome experience for the blokes from Ireland scotland and wales (not to mention Russia and France) to play in the comp.

At the end of the day this tournament is something that Rugby League offers to Europe. There are numerous club and international fixtures for RU but the CC is realistically the only way for clbus across europe to compete.

As a question of interest, what would happen if clubs from Estonia, Germany other parts of Europe or further wanted to participate?

Also is there a website that would list things like furthest an amatuer team has got? or scottish or welsh etc.

Cheers

 

[bowes]

Cardiff made the third round once, although Celtic Crusaders probably got further last year, not sure about Scottish or general amateur though (until about 15 years ago there were only 2 amateur clubs allowed to enter, at one stage it was none).

Noone from Ireland enters anymore and nor do Welsh amateur clubs. There's no clubs in Estonia and no proper clubs in Germany so that couldn't happen. If Serbia were to put forward a case to have their champion club entered it would be considered but I doubt they'd be admitted as they already have had to restrict who enters a lot.