Charity Shield 2023 vs Souths

[Number of the Beath]

Wow… just wow

Hi Hook

Hook? Hardly, mate. Not at all. I just think we've got to realistic about him in what is a really important position. Obviously I want the kid to succeed, for his sake as much as ours but I think he needs time, work and a spell on the wing.
I don't remember the same charity being offered to Duffty - who was a flawed player but demonstrated a lot more than Sloan has to date and was, in 2020/21, practically our only attacking option.

 

[qld redvee]

It was on channel 7 news today, they made a big thing about it, it was reported by Michelle Bishop. Those reports.

also fox showed it yesterdat as the game finished

 

[kit66]

OK, that was a tough watch.
First up, the Bunnies will be in the top 3 this year without a doubt, with a spine of Mitchell, Walker, Illias and Cook backed by an exceptional forward pack including possibly the best No13 in the NRL and finishers like Johnston and Tass they practically fall over the line into the Top 4 or better. I'm not making excuses for our blokes - they were very poor - just stating a fact.

Our mob,

1. Sloan - if you recall there was a time when nearly everyone on here wanted Ramsey relegated permanently to Reserves because he could not tackle or catch a bomb to save his life - then what happened ? He turned it around. Sloan will do the same, yeah he dropped two bombs but apart from that whenever he got the ball with some room he looked deadly - speed and skill to burn. Give him time. He's already bulked up a bit, he's a couple of kilos heavier than Ramsey was last year and he's only 20 remember that and he's only played 13 games - not including trials (for 7 tries and 4 assists), Cody is 23.
2. Matt Feagai, will become our Mr Reliable and as good as Walford or Cooper. Hits hard, runs hard. Can become a great centre in time.
3. Suli, like his centre partner needs to get used to switching sides and work up combinations with his new Right side teammates. May take a few weeks but should prove a good move by Hook. Give him early ball and space and watch him go.
4. Lomax, might take more time than Suli to settle on the Left side. Looked unable to flick left handed, that could be a blessing or a worry, not sure yet. Needs to cut out the errors and take more responsibility and leadership befitting his years at the club.
5. Ravalawa, OK, poor game in the CS but still a strong ball carrier off our line and a great finisher, he needs to stay strong and build his confidence - he and Su'a and Suli need to own the Right side in defence and attack. Behind a good go forward in the middle and early ball they could be lethal.

6. Mbye, laughable at 6 and 9, tries hard but has to be our 14 and make way for Bud Sullivan at 6.
7. Hunt, he's great, has all the smarts and tough as. Needs to work up a combo with Bud which I think will come a lot easier than some people think, including Hook maybe. Bud fitted in seamlessly in the CS, good passes, great awareness, good defence, looked totally at home. Imagine Hunt with more time and better support from his 6, he'd be unstoppable - Bud can give him that. Mbye can't.

to be cont....

 

[jodragon40]

No semi finals football again this season

 

[BLM01]

OK, that was a tough watch.
First up, the Bunnies will be in the top 3 this year without a doubt, with a spine of Mitchell, Walker, Illias and Cook backed by an exceptional forward pack including possibly the best No13 in the NRL and finishers like Johnston and Tass they practically fall over the line into the Top 4 or better. I'm not making excuses for our blokes - they were very poor - just stating a fact.

Our mob,

1. Sloan - if you recall there was a time when nearly everyone on here wanted Ramsey relegated permanently to Reserves because he could not tackle or catch a bomb to save his life - then what happened ? He turned it around. Sloan will do the same, yeah he dropped two bombs but apart from that whenever he got the ball with some room he looked deadly - speed and skill to burn. Give him time. He's already bulked up a bit, he's a couple of kilos heavier than Ramsey was last year and he's only 20 remember that and he's only played 13 games - not including trials (for 7 tries and 4 assists), Cody is 23.
2. Matt Feagai, will become our Mr Reliable and as good as Walford or Cooper. Hits hard, runs hard. Can become a great centre in time.
3. Suli, like his centre partner needs to get used to switching sides and work up combinations with his new Right side teammates. May take a few weeks but should prove a good move by Hook. Give him early ball and space and watch him go.
4. Lomax, might take more time than Suli to settle on the Left side. Looked unable to flick left handed, that could be a blessing or a worry, not sure yet. Needs to cut out the errors and take more responsibility and leadership befitting his years at the club.
5. Ravalawa, OK, poor game in the CS but still a strong ball carrier off our line and a great finisher, he needs to stay strong and build his confidence - he and Su'a and Suli need to own the Right side in defence and attack. Behind a good go forward in the middle and early ball they could be lethal.

6. Mbye, laughable at 6 and 9, tries hard but has to be our 14 and make way for Bud Sullivan at 6.
7. Hunt, he's great, has all the smarts and tough as. Needs to work up a combo with Bud which I think will come a lot easier than some people think, including Hook maybe. Bud fitted in seamlessly in the CS, good passes, great awareness, good defence, looked totally at home. Imagine Hunt with more time and better support from his 6, he'd be unstoppable - Bud can give him that. Mbye can't.

to be cont....

Ill finish this for you. Backline above complete
Forwards based on minimal what I have seen this year and how we finished last year
JDB, Lawrie, Liddle, Sua, BMM. Bird.
Bench Kerr, F Molo (these 2 need a rocket and play hard otherwise they are gone too), Musgrove and with a heavy heart (Mybe) or we find another super sub.

R2 team named. Form or injury out they go, next man standing similar position.

 

[BLM01]

why is it that i have to hear every year how good the pre season was, the new attitudes we have, how we have bulked up, what the new coaches are doing, the lessons learnt from last season blah blah blah etc. we could have at least looked as sharp as what we talked ourselves up to be. yes i know its a trail but it was also a trail for souths, we looked like a disinterested rabble that thought it was too hot to play and really the season dosent start for a couple of weeks, so what does this matter. so now they leave with more questions than answers on such a poor showing wondering why their renewed pre season exuberance and soundly proffessed crap they regaled was a dismal fail. and to us members and supporters the stark reality of what we already knew is now evident before us. there is no excuse to having a poor attitude or desire in any game you play, as a matter of fact you get paid a lot of money to constantly have it. well its over to you mr griffen lets see what magic you have for us in 3 weeks, knock yourself out.

To be fair Souths have had the core and rest of their side together for a few years with minimal change so they should look sharp. We have not setlled yet.

 

[BLM01]

Which reports were those?

Not reports it was on Fox TV post match for all to see. Then they were joined by Sullivan & Kerr

 

[SEAT 1A]

No injuries, a handful of players played well, some didn't care and a few not up to it.

We are screwed.

 

[I'm Hornby]

A lot has been said about the game and whether or not this season will be like all the seasons in recent memory (or worse) remains to be seen. A few positives I saw were:

- Yes we got blown away in the first half but we did outscore Souths in the second half which is some solace considering it is a trial game.

- We showed some ability to offload a lot more than past seasons, BMM and Musgrave seem to promote second phase which is good. If the spine can play off the back of that and we do it at the right times in games, we will score points.

- On BMM he seems to be getting prepped to play big minutes on the edge and attacts two or three edge defenders when he runs the ball which could open things up for Suli and Ravalawa in the season.

- Sullivan scored a good try and hopefully he stays fit and starts the year at 6.

- Liddle looked good and the try he scored with Billy Burns was something you see from Damian Cook. His big challenge will be fitness as at this stage he doesn't look to have 80 minutes in the legs.

- The front rowers struggled for yardage, they all have the propensity to bend the line so the onus will be on them to improve their fitness and improve their ruck defence if we're going to make the 8.

There's a few things to ponder in the next three weeks for the forumites

 

[thebigredv]

Sure, losses like the last couple are embarrassing and frustrating but It's really the wins we need to be worried about.

Hear me out.

Under the last two coaches we've had a habit, particularly early on, of beating teams when they aren't at their best. These wins, legitimate as they are keep papering over the chasms of the fabric of our club. They disguise the fact that we are a very weak and poorly managed team with a culture of near enough is good enough. I could count the number of memorable and dominant wins on one hand from the last decade. And if ever there was a do or die situation where a win is needed we fold every time.

I know we battle with the unnatural dilemma each year of lose games > near spoon > cause shake-up vs stay battling for a position 10th-14th and give the coach and players one more year. It's pretty apparent to everyone now that success is not achievable, and so, let's rip this bandaid off, lose a bunch of games and be done with it. No more place to hide for Hook and his men.

 

[Saints Forever]

The problem was the forwards in particular played the ball too slowly

 

[thebigredv]

The problem was the forwards in particular played the ball too slowly

Chicken or egg. Whenever the backs had the ball they basically threw it back to Souths in any number of new and inventive ways.

I dont think you can point the fingers at forwards or backs when the whole lot of them - bar one or two - play like they've never met each other or heard of rugby league before.

Fantastic preparation coach.

 

[kit66]

.........

8. Musgrove, some good hit-ups and strong defence but needs to lift his work rate in defence - first contact better than Lawrie's. Should be handy off the bench.
9. Liddle, OK, not outstanding but knows how to take advantage of a quick play the ball and lazy defence. First contact in the tackle he tries to wrap up the ball instead of dropping the player - relies on his mates help too much in defence. What I want to know is why he was taken off and Mbye thrown into dh ? why ? It's a trial, see how Liddle plays for the full 80 or bring on Mulheisen or Finau. WTF ? Does Hook believe we absolutely, positively have to have Mbye on the field at all times ? Watch when Mbye goes to dh, to catch his passes players have to virtually jump backwards into the air to catch them, momentum killed.
10. Lawrie, watch his first 6 or 7 tackles - he flies in at Warp 10 and hits fairly hard but for some reason it's mostly ineffective in stopping anyone and the opposition player takes the impact then motors on for plenty of post contact metres, every time. He should hit them lower, stop them dead. Him and Liddle both going high is useless, barely stops their target. I said last year, Lawrie would be great off the bench, high energy, better impact against tiring player, I still believe that's where we need him. People moan about Woods and Kerr but they aren't giving up anywhere near the Post Contact Metres Lawrie allows and they both have an off-load and quick play the balls.
11. Murdoch-Masila, Went pretty good, strong runs and tough defence, could really warm into the 11 jersey. The hot weather didn't knock him around like I thought it would, he actually looks really fit. I'm a fan.
12. Su'a, our best after Hunt, will be good value if he can click with Suli and Rav. I noticed he seems to want to take more responsibility, tried a kick and an off-load, unfortunately both were doomed, maybe he needs to pick his moments more carefully or just leave it to others. Keep it simple.
13. BBurns, I was quite impressed with his effort, 110 metres, line break, try assist and 21 tackles (1 missed), very busy plus we know he can run good lines when the opportunity presents itself. In the two trials he's showed some real improvement on last year. Could become a quality Lock back up for Bird or even earn a spot on the bench should we need him.

14. Sullivan. Will slide right into 5/8, kid's a natural. Bud to 6, Mbye to 14 or reserves. Has to happen.
15. FMolo, slight improvement in his play, busier in defence and ok metres I think but his brother hits harder in defence.
16. Kerr, Earned himself a spot on the bench for Rnd2 I reckon but could easily start, his defence is very solid, strong first up contact stops 'em dead and as shown in this game his off-loads and quick play the balls can turn the game or at the very least put us on the front foot for a change.
17. Woods, reading the comments in here during the game you would have thought Woods played like some drunken hobo we found on the street, I didn't see that watching the replay. Apart from two dubious high shots he played ok, his defence was better than Lawries that's for sure, he dropped Koloamatangi and Arrow and others without giving up any pcms, 2 quality off-loads, quick play the balls and 26 tackles no misses. His wrestle is the best in the team as well, slows the opposition down. I want him and Kerr on the bench and if Hook wanted to start with those two I reckon we'd start with more momentum than we'd get from Lawrie and JDB.
The Rest, Fui pack your bags, the rest off to Reserves.

 

[SEAT 1A]

Sure, losses like the last couple are embarrassing and frustrating but It's really the wins we need to be worried about.

Hear me out.

Under the last two coaches we've had a habit, particularly early on, of beating teams when they aren't at their best. These wins, legitimate as they are keep papering over the chasms of the fabric of our club. They disguise the fact that we are a very weak and poorly managed team with a culture of near enough is good enough. I could count the number of memorable and dominant wins on one hand from the last decade. And if ever there was a do or die situation where a win is needed we fold every time.

I know we battle with the unnatural dilemma each year of lose games > near spoon > cause shake-up vs stay battling for a position 10th-14th and give the coach and players one more year. It's pretty apparent to everyone now that success is not achievable, and so, let's rip this bandaid off, lose a bunch of games and be done with it. No more place to hide for Hook and his men.

As much as I hate to say it, we are a 10th-14th position club.

I'm tired of the club's BS spin. We didn't make the finals. Bud and Slone were wasted last year, Amone at least was given time.

 

[jodragon40]

Sure, losses like the last couple are embarrassing and frustrating but It's really the wins we need to be worried about.

Hear me out.

Under the last two coaches we've had a habit, particularly early on, of beating teams when they aren't at their best. These wins, legitimate as they are keep papering over the chasms of the fabric of our club. They disguise the fact that we are a very weak and poorly managed team with a culture of near enough is good enough. I could count the number of memorable and dominant wins on one hand from the last decade. And if ever there was a do or die situation where a win is needed we fold every time.

I know we battle with the unnatural dilemma each year of lose games > near spoon > cause shake-up vs stay battling for a position 10th-14th and give the coach and players one more year. It's pretty apparent to everyone now that success is not achievable, and so, let's rip this bandaid off, lose a bunch of games and be done with it. No more place to hide for Hook and his men.

As an old broken down coach myself you are right. There is no fixing our issues under this coach, he has lost the shed. We cannot attract the forwards we need because any decent player managers steer their clients elsewhere. The present team are dissolutioned and disinterested and we are alienating our juniors and rising stars. Nothing will change until a new broom sweeps through the senior management of the club

 

[Number of the Beath]

The problem was the forwards in particular played the ball too slowly

The Team Stats on the Dragons page say that our play the ball speed was something like half a second faster on average. But it certainly didn't look that way...

 

[jodragon40]

The Team Stats on the Dragons page say that our play the ball speed was something like half a second faster on average. But it certainly didn't look that way...

Not on the NRL site it was a 3 and South's was 4 is that the right way to read it or visa versa. Our overall stat's were good but we were still blown off the park still

 

[kit66]

The problem was the forwards in particular played the ball too slowly

Souths have the wrestle down pat, they're very good at slowing their opposition down as we saw yesterday.
We on the other hand are hopeless at the wrestle and dominating the ruck, I had hoped it would improve this year but no signs yet. We gave up the least amount of ruck infringements of any team last year, we give our opposition nice quick play the balls and struggle to fight hard enough for our own. BMM, Hunt, Kerr and Woods and maybe Burns played them fast but no-one else.
Need to get 3 or 4 in the tackle and hit the slo-mo.

 

[Dragonsteve2]

Don’t beat up on Sloan guys. The kid is going to be real good. He needs time and support especially through these rough patches.
Gonna be special that kid

Good onya, Miller! One improvement that no one seems to have noted about Sloan is that he either caught the bombs or dropped them. Not a single one was left to bounce which I believe was his biggest weakness and similarly with Dufty who also had his rule of a failed intercept being better than tackling the ball runner. If he commits to them all high balls he will improve. From yesterday's game he will probably learn not to jump high unless it is essential. I agree with you, Miller. Not the time to moan about Sloan. As you say, be patient and give him time. We all know we're not going anywhere special this season. Presumably his distress at the end of the game came from disappointment at failing to reach the standard he has set himself for each game this season.

Into my 8th season on the Forum now and one generalisation I think I can confidently make. Positive comments make up barely 20-25% of posts. I know it's therapeutic to get the frustrations off the chest in making negative comments. It does me some good in reading them - I realise that others are even more depressed than me. But this means that some positives can be overlooked. Only a few have noted that Liddle, Musgrove and BMM may bring more value than first anticipated. Rava, on the other hand, has copped it. He did not have his best game but to suggest dropping him now is to ignore the improvement under the high ball since the first season. Sure, if he does go backwards in the first 3-4 rounds it is good to know that there are alternatives such as Max F.

Overall, the game against the Rabbits was no worse than expected if you have been reading through the Forum this preseason. Yes, it looks like a long season. I suggest either looking for the odd positive, applaud the odd win when each comes or go into hibernation for the winter and look forward to more hope in 2024.

 

[dragonreddy]

To be fair Souths have had the core and rest of their side together for a few years with minimal change so they should look sharp. We have not setlled yet.

This is a fair assessment ,but we never seem settled and it has been the same for last 11 years.
Team will be a dogs breakfast while yet another coach fights for self preservation.