Coaching preference for 2024

[justadragon]

News.com reports that Hook has a few days left before getting axed.

 

[thebigredv]

Last night @ NRL 360, Dragons next coaching appointment was discussed. Here are points that stood out for me:

1. We do not have a recruitment manager. That is why Dragons are going down the path of prolonged list of coaches. Good clubs determine who they want and go get their guy.
2. Since we have no recruitment manager, the board makes the decision and we have a fractured board. The problem is that the two factions want different people.
3. Due to not having a recruitment manager, we now have 1 marquee player. Even at Mcgregor era we had 5 marquee player before everything went sour 2019. Example of Jack Wighton was brought up that nobody from Dragons is talking to him.
4. The board meeting is next Tuesday.
5. Interim coaches never succeed if Griffin asked to leave or decides to walk.
6. St George does things differently to other clubs
7. Finally, Shane or Hasler know what winning culture is, whereas a rookie like Jason or Ben may fail.

Anyways, let's see what would happen next Tuesday.

Reading this reflects so poorly on the board and the reason none of us A) could imagine landing Bellamy B) can't really see a clear way out of the current crisis. It feels like the next in line is just another Price, McGregor or Griffin waiting to fail amongst a laughing stock of a club board.

A fractured board wanting separate things is the crux of everything. I'm happy to get behind the St George Illawarra Dragons as much as the next guy but give me St George Dragons and the Illawarra Steelers over this mess please. Might as well not exist if we keep getting hamstrung by our own management.

Imagine being Jason Ryles, a once proud Dragon, would rather take on the pressure of following Bellamy at the Storm than being the next scapegoat for the infamous Dragons club. Same reason Fitzgibbon didn't want a bar of it. In hypothetical land, not one of us would want the job either - success cannot be born out of disunity. Has to be someone bigger than the board.

 

[justadragon]

Well that board member has literally just told us they've decided on Griffin, he won't be here as he "hasn't worked as well as we had hoped". If not Ryles, Des would be a horrible option in my opinion. Our salary cap has only just gotten back into shape, and every manly fan I've spoken to says Hasler is past it. I mean, just look at Manly, their salary cap is a mess. About a third of their top 30 salary cap is invested in three players. Flanagan, god no. He's been there and done it, and maybe he can bring a level of success, but he's a deadset cheat. He also doesn't get the direction this club's heading as united entity. In commentary he constantly refers to us as "St George" only. He may bring short term success, but he will not continue the good stuff off the field Griffin has been building. So for me it's John Morris or Madge.

Can agree with you on some points Parko, but John Morris is an unproven entity like Ryles Young Hornby etc, I dont know about Madge's coaching style, it hasn't seemed to have gotten him anywhere after Souths. You can still have restraint and oversight on Hasler with the salary cap issues, I certainly dont believe he is past it by any means. Totally agree on Flanno.

 

[Parko1310]

Reading this reflects so poorly on the board and the reason none of us A) could imagine landing Bellamy B) can't really see a clear way out of the current crisis. It feels like the next in line is just another Price, McGregor or Griffin waiting to fail amongst a laughing stock of a club board.

A fractured board wanting separate things is the crux of everything. I'm happy to get behind the St George Illawarra Dragons as much as the next guy but give me St George Dragons and the Illawarra Steelers over this mess please. Might as well not exist if we keep getting hamstrung by our own management.

Imagine being Jason Ryles, a once proud Dragon, would rather take on the pressure of following Bellamy at the Storm than being the next scapegoat for the infamous Dragons club. Same reason Fitzgibbon didn't want a bar of it. In hypothetical land, not one of us would want the job either - success cannot be born out of disunity. Has to be someone bigger than the board.

Yes, Hook was set up to fail from the beginning in all honesty. The salary cap was a mess and that does take time to repair, which he's successfully done in less than three years remarkably. He hasn't had time to use the cap space he's freed up and recruit some real quality. If you give him a decent squad, I think he could coach it reasonably well. Right now, that roster is performing pretty much as you'd expect it to, it's not a good roster by any stretch of the imagination. People will argue "this is hook's team", it simply isn't. Our cap needed to get back into shape and it's only now somewhat okay again. If you give Hook some cap space to work with, I think he'd go alright recruitment wise. I don't see him being afforded that opportunity though. Realistically, whoever the next coach is I don't think will do any better, this board is so fractured and restricting to all but one coach in the joint venture's history. Had the board had foresight and handled this situation better, Hook could have been given an extra year, moved into a GM role, and they could have made a bid for Bennett to come back in 2025 when his two years at Dolphins is done. We will now end up with another wasted three years at least off the back of this mess. f**k the board.

 

[justadragon]

Yes, Hook was set up to fail from the beginning in all honesty. The salary cap was a mess and that does take time to repair, which he's successfully done in less than three years remarkably. He hasn't had time to use the cap space he's freed up and recruit some real quality. If you give him a decent squad, I think he could coach it reasonably well. Right now, that roster is performing pretty much as you'd expect it to, it's not a good roster by any stretch of the imagination. People will argue "this is hook's team", it simply isn't. Our cap needed to get back into shape and it's only now somewhat okay again. If you give Hook some cap space to work with, I think he'd go alright recruitment wise. I don't see him being afforded that opportunity though. Realistically, whoever the next coach is I don't think will do any better, this board is so fractured and restricting to all but one coach in the joint venture's history. Had the board had foresight and handled this situation better, Hook could have been given an extra year, moved into a GM role, and they could have made a bid for Bennett to come back in 2025 when his two years at Dolphins is done. We will now end up with another wasted three years at least off the back of this mess. f**k the board.

100%, what we need to improve on is our TPA's and not just the cap. We cant compete properly without them.

 

[Crush]

Can agree with you on some points Parko, but John Morris is an unproven entity like Ryles Young Hornby etc, I dont know about Madge's coaching style, it hasn't seemed to have gotten him anywhere after Souths. You can still have restraint and oversight on Hasler with the salary cap issues, I certainly dont believe he is past it by any means. Totally agree on Flanno.

Surely not John Morris, wasn't he a stop gap fill in at Sharks until they found a better coach and upgraded to fitzy?

 

[ChocOConnor]

Ok this is my take.
Bellamy- probably won’t come but throw the Blowhole at him and a nice holiday home down by that white sand beach and whatever else he wants.
Hasler- Like Dessy but I think the game is past him with big forwards just bashing it up and stubborn as hell to change.
Flanno. Whilst I never liked the bloke he is a winner at all costs ruthless and does not care what anyone thinks or says, and you don’t see any sharks fans whinging about him and a premiership he got them.
Madge- No way
Hannay- heard good things about him so possible.
Old Boys. I’d take Ryles only.

 

[Wolfgang90]

All the candidates have baggage or are unproven but they all have had NRL experience whether it be Head Coach or Assistant Coaches, the only exception being Shaun Wane. I don't think the board has the balls but he might be exactly what the club needs. A complete outside, who hasn't been exposed to the Dragons dysfunctionality in the media on a regular basis. A complete breath of fresh air. Whoever we pick, it needs to be a bold selection that can set us up for not only the short term but also potential of long term success.

We've seen both Des, Madge & Flanno leave clubs in an absolute mess. Des & Madge continuous falling outs with board (our board is already fractured). Flanno who cheated then couldn't even follow simple NRL punishment of not communicating with the club.

Also lets face it the Dragons aren't a destination club, we don't have much advantages in recruitment other than our junior base which has all been more miss than hit in the last few years. Wane would at least be an attraction for potential English players who are now more willing to move to Aus at an earlier age.

If we can't get Ryles, I would love for us to be bold & get Shaune Wane.

This club needs a massive jolt. He could be the man who could do it & stay long term.

 

[Coffs dragon]

Ok this is my take.
Bellamy- probably won’t come but throw the Blowhole at him and a nice holiday home down by that white sand beach and whatever else he wants.
Hasler- Like Dessy but I think the game is past him with big forwards just bashing it up and stubborn as hell to change.
Flanno. Whilst I never liked the bloke he is a winner at all costs ruthless and does not care what anyone thinks or says, and you don’t see any sharks fans whinging about him and a premiership he got them.
Madge- No way
Hannay- heard good things about him so possible.
Old Boys. I’d take Ryles only.

Hey Choc I don’t really agree on your assessment that Hasler is stubborn as hell to change. The Bulldogs were in the doldrums & took him on with no decent halves & he took them to 2 GF’s.
He reinvented forward play and had Kasiano & Jimmy Graham as link man with great success. Whilst they never won the Grand Final, they had great success and other teams started to follow this new style.
They don’t call him the Mad Scientist for nothing, as he’s willing to experiment and develop.
I still recall James Graham saying Des Hasler is the best coach he’s played under.

 

[Dragon David]

In my opinion we need a Head Coach that can set the bench mark of success for future coaches and players and that head coach is Craig Bellamy. The club went virtually all out to get Bennett and in the 3 years he was with us made our lives as fans much relieved and in awe of the way we played and the results we attained. With Bennett however, he has his own ways and I don't think that he left any "benchmark" for the likes of Steve Price and Paul McGregor to follow and therefore success didn't occur.

We need a guy like Bellamy now for at least 2 years to raise the bar, set standards and bench marks, get several players like stronger forwards and faster backs and tell the Board where to go and leave him to run the football side of things. Once he gets our club back up then whomever follows, who would also need to be someone with similar qualities as Bellamy, take over the role and follow what Bellamy had set, if of course he brings that success.

That's my opinion and while we know that Bellamy has been talking about not coaching and taking a back seat role at the Storm (football manager?), the Dragons should go really hard to get him. It would be a massive challenge for him and I'm sure he loves challenges and it would be a massive coup for us.

In the case of Jason Ryles, if he goes to the Storm which is very likely, he has had plenty of time down there as a player and assistant coach to Bellamy. Those Bellamy bench marks Ryles would just follow and will have success down there, but as we won't have that winning bench mark, Ryles would need to create his own and that might be a task too big for him to get the results we want. So failing getting Bellamy, I suppose we could do no wrong in signing Hasler.

The team that has now developed a strong set of standards and is setting the bench mark for success is of course Penrith. It took that club a while to get the players from juniors to seniors to reach the current level of winning culture. They have the right Head Coach and even though they have lost several good assistants in Barrett, Ciraldo and Webster, they continue on their winning ways and in my opinion will be the first club to get a threepeat. Ivan Cleary is the next Craig Bellamy and Wayne Bennett and Penrith realised this and signed him to a long term deal.

So we really do need someone who can set the winning bench mark and we should go all out to get Bellamy - fat chance though.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Our football department is fractured. Each area running its own course rather than working together for the betterment of the Dragons.
Wd need to have in place:
Head coach
GM of football
Recruitment manager

These 3 are the cog that make up the wheel. Currently. We have only a HC, with Haran, and who knows really what he does.

HC is up in the air atm. However the more difficult task would be finding a true GM of football. I know a lot of people have hopium for Bellamy in that role, but, no doubt he will transition to that at the Storm, and why leave Kelbourne where his family is quite settled. I wouldn't consider Hook at all, his bias to certain ways excludes him from that. I know this wouldn't be a popular choice but I would look at Madge for that role. Extremely passionate, good knowledge, knows to win a premiership.

Recruitment manager, well I'd throw the book at Brownie.

Now, HC. Whispers around, take that as you will, we are preferencing a premiership winning coach. You can look at that 2 ways, a coach that has won a premiership ie Hasler, Flannery, Maguire and even drill it down to Wane, or a player that has won a premiership ie: Young or Hornby. Note this excludes Ryles.

We really need to have this structure in place to be even remotely successful and challenge for premiership well into the future.

So, my 2c worth would be:
HC: Hornby
GM: Maguire
RM: Brown

I know there will be conjecture on this but I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.

 

[justadragon]

Our football department is fractured. Each area running its own course rather than working together for the betterment of the Dragons.
Wd need to have in place:
Head coach
GM of football
Recruitment manager

These 3 are the cog that make up the wheel. Currently. We have only a HC, with Haran, and who knows really what he does.

HC is up in the air atm. However the more difficult task would be finding a true GM of football. I know a lot of people have hopium for Bellamy in that role, but, no doubt he will transition to that at the Storm, and why leave Kelbourne where his family is quite settled. I wouldn't consider Hook at all, his bias to certain ways excludes him from that. I know this wouldn't be a popular choice but I would look at Madge for that role. Extremely passionate, good knowledge, knows to win a premiership.

Recruitment manager, well I'd throw the book at Brownie.

Now, HC. Whispers around, take that as you will, we are preferencing a premiership winning coach. You can look at that 2 ways, a coach that has won a premiership ie Hasler, Flannery, Maguire and even drill it down to Wane, or a player that has won a premiership ie: Young or Hornby. Note this excludes Ryles.

We really need to have this structure in place to be even remotely successful and challenge for premiership well into the future.

So, my 2c worth would be:
HC: Hornby
GM: Maguire
RM: Brown

I know there will be conjecture on this but I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.

Good post mate, my thoughts are any non experienced HC will be steamrolled by the board, apart from that I like your diversity.

 

[justadragon]

Hey Choc I don’t really agree on your assessment that Hasler is stubborn as hell to change. The Bulldogs were in the doldrums & took him on with no decent halves & he took them to 2 GF’s.
He reinvented forward play and had Kasiano & Jimmy Graham as link man with great success. Whilst they never won the Grand Final, they had great success and other teams started to follow this new style.
They don’t call him the Mad Scientist for nothing, as he’s willing to experiment and develop.
I still recall James Graham saying Des Hasler is the best coach he’s played under.

At least with Des I wont fall asleep during the PC )

 

[Murfy]

Go get Shaun Wane. Maybe he can bring some of the top English players over with him

 

[Illusion]

Go get Shaun Wane. Maybe he can bring some of the top English players over with him

Yep I'd take him , as long as he has no interference within the club ........

 

[Dorothy the Winowhore]

My mail says.....Hasler coach, and Scott Fulton recruitment

 

[Desperate Dragon]

I think the coaching situation going forward will become a lot clearer after the board meeting next Tuesday.
The way it usually works is the short list will be leaked to the media, and will generally indicate who is the favourite for the job.

 

[steerlerbab]

Reading this reflects so poorly on the board and the reason none of us A) could imagine landing Bellamy B) can't really see a clear way out of the current crisis. It feels like the next in line is just another Price, McGregor or Griffin waiting to fail amongst a laughing stock of a club board.

A fractured board wanting separate things is the crux of everything. I'm happy to get behind the St George Illawarra Dragons as much as the next guy but give me St George Dragons and the Illawarra Steelers over this mess please. Might as well not exist if we keep getting hamstrung by our own management.

Imagine being Jason Ryles, a once proud Dragon, would rather take on the pressure of following Bellamy at the Storm than being the next scapegoat for the infamous Dragons club. Same reason Fitzgibbon didn't want a bar of it. In hypothetical land, not one of us would want the job either - success cannot be born out of disunity. Has to be someone bigger than the board.

I myself lean towards Hasler or Flanagan. Both are experienced and also can run roster with a help of good recruitment manager (so we don't up with salary cap issue). But the fractured board has to make a decision next week on one of those guys so that planning can start for next year and stay out of the way as they did during Bennett years.

 

[SaintPeter]

No doubt Hasler can coach, but doesn't he have a history of completely and utterly trashing club finances/salary cap/budgets - by buying players (they cant really afford) with back loaded contracts etc etc applicable after he has left ??? e.g. the bulldogs taking years to get back on some sort of track

 

[thebigredv]

No doubt Hasler can coach, but doesn't he have a history of completely and utterly trashing club finances/salary cap/budgets - by buying players (they cant really afford) with back loaded contracts etc etc applicable after he has left ??? e.g. the bulldogs taking years to get back on some sort of track

Word on the street is Hasler is on his way in. It's all a bit messy but I will take it.