Commission to outlaw 'shoulder charge'

[El Diablo]

Why have my comments been moved to another thread "should the shoulder charge be banned" - seems to be a bit over the top by the moderators as they are highly relevant to this blog. Maybe an attempt to down play this blog - so much for freedom of speech.

because it's a more appropriate topic for your 50,000 posts on the matter

 

[magpie4ever]

Ok, we all know that the potential for a shoulder charge in league has been around since Adam was selected as fullback for the Paradise Inn first XIII.

But previously, the shoulder charge was used as a body check as a defensive ploy by a tackler; the modern day shoulder charge is used as an offensive ploy by a defender

In league (and in any contact sport) there will always be the odd concussion where a player is knocked out from a high tackle, accidental head clash or placing their head in the wrong spot when attempting a tackle. You will never stop concussions occurring in league but can try to minimise these by punishing players who illegally cause such concussions.

My concern with the modern day shoulder charge used as an offensive ploy by the tackler is the likelihood of subconcussions occurring to the tackled player.

So what are subconcussions? This occurs when the head goes into a whiplash action: back and forward or side to side. This causes the brain to be jarred around in the skull, basic bouncing into the sides of the skull.

So what is my concern with subconcussions? I have spoken to a number of boxing trainers regarding why a number of boxers seemingly retire fully functional but within a short period of time (a short number of years) suffer with what can best be described as the ‘punch drunk’ syndrome. The best explanation I can give for their responses are: the straight knock out is not the major concern (although not helpful), it is the 20 or so seemingly harmless jabs a boxer receives every round that causes the head to whiplash backward and forward (the brain bouncing around) creating these subconcussions; these cause continual damage to the brain – basically chipping away parts of the brain or bruising it.

You will never stop the full on concussions in a contact sport like rugby league, the best you can do is try to minimise them. What can be stop is the majority of subconcussions caused by the offensive shoulder charge by banning it.

Don’t believe me: check out the Matt Groat – Ben Tio shoulder charge. Yeah, Ben got him flush on the chin (and deserved to be suspended) and Matt was immediately knocked out but count how many times Matt’s head goes through the whiplash motion before he finally hits the ground; multiple – each movement is causing a subconcussion in the brain. Now, even if Ben got him say 10 centimetres lower so the shoulder charge (under the current rules) was not illegal, Matt would not have suffered a concussion (wouldn’t have been knocked out) but the whiplash effect would still have occurred causing the numerous subconcussions.

As many a boxing trainer has stated these (subconcussions) are the ones that get you in the end.

 

[magpie4ever]

El Diablo, you are obviously a little IT expert - who tries to manipulate comments, disgusting for an internet forum. Back to your NRL game on X-box.

 

[Cloudsurfer]

just my opinion - can see a few disagree but I'll wear the flak.

Guys who do shoulder charges are chest-beating types and akin to snipers - waiting for the opportunity to score a hit on the unsuspecting & vulnerable - someone running full tilt and/or not looking seems to be the criteria.

Shoulder hits are done for their shock value & to deliberately put someone out of commission (& possibly to get praise for what big 'men' they are). If it was to play the game of league it would be with arms engaged and a fair hit.

The thread on here about Matulino & his 'shoulder of granite' (lol what a thing to go down in the annals as) seems to give armchair wannabe guns an adrenaline rush - seeing him & other snipers pick off the casualtiies.

Big tackles are what rightfully gives league it's reputation as a hard-hitting, tough game & exciting to watch but I've got no respect for snipers

How hard is it to use arms in a big hit?

 

[Meth]

I love a good shoulder charge. Saw a beauty today in local Rugby League. It's an artform.

 

[Aragorn]

you can ban shoulder charging when they ban boxing... never gonna happen....

 

[Aragorn]

How hard is it to use arms in a big hit?

when was the last time anyone made a big hit using their arms???

 

[barney gumble]

There's no way I want to see the shoulder charge banned altogether. My only problem with it is that there are certain players who don't know how to tackle any other way.

Perhaps we could follow a similar rule to the cricket 'bouncer' policy. 2 shoulder charges per half/game, per team, maximum, or something of the like.

 

[Cloudsurfer]

when was the last time anyone made a big hit using their arms???

For example, Matulino does it (when he's not doing shoulder charges). Theres a Sky Sports / Warriors advert on in NZ atm of his hits to promote Warriors games - about 7 or 8 of them. about half of them are huge tackles and the other half where he does a shoulder charge.

imo the tackles are more effective because in almost all of them he hits them so hard they go down & can't hold onto the ball. course he goes to ground with them but he's got the advantage he's there for and gets up to mark up again no problem.

In the shoulder charges same thing happens but they're polaxed - stopped dead in their tracks - some of them I've seen in games can hardly get up & he's left standing with no outright effect to him to carry on like nothings happened. You might say fair enough but my issue is he can do the same with the hard tackle (and it seems more effectively) and without the same risk to the opposition player. So what's the shoulder charge really for? Intimidate the opposition? he already does that with those tackles. Intent to injure? probably

 

[in.tro]

Spoken like a person that has never played a game of rugby league.

I played in an era where the game was a lot harder then the present day - you actually pushed in scrums, 4 replacement rule, all in brawls, head high tackles, knees, someone trying to denut you in a tackle etc etc. Shoulder charges were not part of the game - so when you see a player have his head jolted severely from a shoulder charge you know that the player will have problems later in life; especially if they are blinded sided.

As I said, it might be good for the lounge chair critic but it is not good for the person on the receiving end.

There will always be accidential injuries in all sports, such as, the player's recent death in hockey, and there will be future accidents in RL, it just doesn't need to be deliberate when you know it will lead to health issues in later life.

I played the game for 25 years and have major knee and ankle problems - no problems that is part of participating in a hard sport. I now have two sons playing at a fairly high level, my greatest fear - them being blindside by a shoulder charge not a punch in the nose, raking across the face. etc

The players are real people, they are not figures in a Xbox game. To see someone with brain damage from numeruos sub-concussions is not a pretty sight.

your as much a lounge chair critic as i am, so maybe dont make false assumptions next time and try to belittle me, because we have both played the game. i appreciate the fact you have sons playing and obviously are concerned for their wellbeing, however i;d be more concerned about them doing a knee or ankle with the way 3 men enter the tackle these days..

most times shoulder charges are 1 on 1... its fair game..

would you ban lifting your arm up to make a tackle because it MAY come in contact with someones facE? ofcourse not.. its all about technique and application. same with shoulder chargers. they can be used effectively... those who mess up and make high shots should be punished and rubbed out of the game accordingly... its simple..

if we rule out the shoulder charge, allow the wrestle, before you know it we are going to be having rucks and mauls...

 

[adamkungl]

Read the comments fully, it is about mininising the risks. You probably have never put a boot on or been concussed, shut the door on you way out.

Yet to hear a single complaint by an NRL player about shoulder charges.

 

[in.tro]

Yet to hear a single complaint by an NRL player about shoulder charges.

x 2....

only seems to be the arm chair critics calling for it ;-)

 

[Dresden Dan]

Off field behaviour stories all dried up. Next stop is start a media beat up about concussions.

 

[innerwestrabbit]

Love the sight of a great shoulder charge and always argued that we don't want to go soft like the union boys. But I reckon the shoulder charge will get banned in the near future. I would like to see more rib ticklers though. I can't understand with the loose carries of the modern player why there are not more of these type of tackles. Rarely see good mid rift tackles either like the axe used to do.

 

[magpie4ever]

x 2....

only seems to be the arm chair critics calling for it ;-)

And what is your current club, chumpion.:sarcasm:

 

[Karl]

Soft like the Union Boys. Yeah, right. Been in a ruck or a maul lately? What about a real scrum? After a League player is tackled the Ref makes everyone get off him so he can pick himself up and play the ball back uncontested to his mate standing safely behind him. Search for big rugby union hits on you tube and you'll see what I said earlier about the ability to put a big hit on someone while still involving the arms in a tackle. There are lots of massive hits in League as well that aren't shoulder charges.

Anyway - cheap or illegal high shots will happen whether a shoulder charge is banned or not. They look great when done right, they get punished when not executed correctly. All things being equal, I would say the players are big boys, they know the risks, if the clubs and players are OK with it, then they should be the ones who determine their own fate. Fact is that the margin for error in a shoulder charge is much less than a normal tackle because even a legitimate hit is very close to the head, by definition and in practice. The attacking player dips a little at the last fraction of a second, or the hit comes up at an angle or is mistimed even a tiny bit and you have unintentional but serious head contact.

Whether the clubs and the players are allowed to make their own determination long term on the shoulder charge is another thing. A few decent head injuries from the continuing evolution of the Shoulder Charge and there will be more and more pressure applied. Someone starts legal action and the pressure mounts. Then the liability issue rears its ugly head and decision makers' nuts retract.

 

[in.tro]

And what is your current club, chumpion.:sarcasm:

one thats better than yours

 

[simostorm]

If your going to ban them.. ban contact to the head only.. you can still put plenty of awesome charges on below the kneck. Even the AFL have shoulder charges.. they are below the head.

 

[magpie4ever]

one thats better than yours

Can't argue with that one, but my point is - the 'arm chair critic' bag is one that is used when the blogger can t put forward a rational argument for or against so they come out with it plus the old rugy union soft co*cks slur or the afl princesses tag.

We are all arm chair critics, so argue or comment with the logic and reasoning not just the usual dopey one-liners.

 

[in.tro]

Can't argue with that one, but my point is - the 'arm chair critic' bag is one that is used when the blogger can put forward a rational arguement for or against so they come out with it plus the old rugy union soft co*cks slur or the afl princesses tag.

We are all arm chair critics, so argue or comment with the logic and reasoning not just the usual dopey one-liners.

i thought i did when i said:

"formula 1, horse racing, surfing etc etc they all have their own life threatening risks"