Crowd Watch, Part III

[t-ba]

Better facilities would help.

I think Brookie needs them. We would lose a very large part of our 9000 or so hardcore if we moved and not gain them at the SFS. We'd probably compensate with theatre goers but the place'd be like it is when the roosters are goin shit but even worse if we started losing.

Improve our facilities and crowds will go up. What people forget is that Manly were one of the best supported clubs before SL broke out. Our fanbase has always been multi-confessional with RU and these days AFL, much like the rest of the Northern Suburbs. Basically the rise of the Swans, the emergence of the Super 12 and the joint venture wounded us heavily, and the club has never really addressed. The chance to engage the fanbase that was presented around 2005 was never taken advantage of and our crowds remained mired somewhere below 15k.

Many Manly supporters have gotten use to the facilities at the SCG trust grounds and wouldn't contemplate taking their families to Brookie anymore. And, besides a blind hatred of those two sports, I can not say I blame them. An improvement in the frankly archaic facilities there would appease the hard core whilst also attracting the theatre goers and would be the best option moving forward. We keep the 9000 regulars and start making some more.

Maybe a pipe dream, but I think it would take a decade and a train line throug Roseville and the Forest district to make the SFS work for us

Penrith are very worrying however.

 

[RWB]

The ARLC messed with the fabric of the game when they changed the rules on shoulder charges and cracked down on fights with striking charges handed down like they've never been before and the sin bin threatened for anyone who throws a punch.

In isolation people think these incidents mean very little but they've changed the way the game is played. I watched an ESL game on the weekend between Hull City & Hull KR and shock, early in the game Travis Burns started a fight. The next hitup after the fight resulted in a HUGE hit and a lost ball, the crowd went nuts, the players all rushed in to pat their mate on the back and pump the team up and the tone for the game was set.

From there on in the intensity was immense, every tackle was intended to hurt the other player and there was a bit of niggle from start to finish which resulted in (again, shock) Travis Burns starting a fight in the 80th minute. I was hooked and I have to admit the quality of the game actually didn't concern me that much purely because there was a great contest going on.

It prompted me to think about the last time I enjoyed a neutral NRL game this much but I honestly couldn't think of many that stood out this year. Origin stands out for me, no one ever complains about the lack of flair in SOO, no one ever uses the excuse of bad scheduling to stop them from watching the game, and no one ever lets the ridiculous ticket prices stop them from going. It continues to grow massively every year, around the world despite the fact that the game faces the same challenges the NRL do. I put it down purely to the fact like I mentioned earlier that we love the contest, the big hits, the intensity and the potential for a fight.

I know it's not politically correct to say this but I believe I'm in the majority in Australia when I say this, I enjoy violence in a controlled environment like a professional football game, I don't like to see cheap shots but if things boil over in the heat of the contest then I think it's great entertainment (especially for the neutral). The ARLC are paying way too much attention to the minority and I'm sick of it. There's nothing like it at a football ground when there's a great physical contest going on, it gets everyone hooked regardless of whether you're on the couch or at the game. It's an atmosphere you just can't describe.

I agree that the wrestle has also contributed to a more sterile game where teams just seem to go through the motions when making yards these days but I also believe the banning of the shoulder charge has just as significantly changed the core fabric of our game.

It doesn't surprise me that our game isn't appealing to new viewers as much as it has in the past, for all the good things the ARLC have done, this is one they've gotten wrong.

I saw this link on a Bulldogs forum and I think it's a great example of what we don't see enough of any more in the game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC7uzSKnVRA

 

[franklin2323]

I can understand that, many people don't like ANZ, but I'm willing to bet even more people don't like Brookie, Shark Park or WIN Kogarah. When it comes to stadiums it's not just about the home fans you've got to think about but also the teams who will be travelling. Generally, if you love your team you'll attend their home games no matter where they're played but when it comes to their away games it's usually a different story. As someone said previously, for some families it's much easier and comfortable to take your kids to the SFS or ANZ than it is sitting on a hill at Shark Park or Brookie. I think this could make a difference in crowds if addressed at the same time as ticket prices.

The question is though will enough extra fans cover for the loss of fans from these grounds? I would say atleast 50% of the 10k we average now wont go. Manly and Sharks fans would be similar.

Not if you can't get to the 'home' game. Take Sunday night 830 finish being 10mins from home was still too late for my kid. ANZ would be 20-30 mins to get to Parra Rd (P1 is a turd) 30mins from there. 90mins by the time you bath it's 10pm. Didn't see too many kids on the TV last night.

Give us Sunday games no issue. At Penrith you can sit on either 30m line for GA. So that's pretty good. We have been terible on field for 10 years as we have discussed in the Penrith section have the worst marketing team. They wont change in a pretty new 'central' stadium

 

[franklin2323]

Penrith are very worrying however.

We averaged 17k in 03, 04

since then we have been terrible our marketing team has no idea ( We have since signed Royce Simmons to help ). Nothing wrong with the staduim or paying $25 to sit on the 30m line. It's on field and marketing for us.

 

[Red Bear]

Penrith have made the finals once since 04 havent they? If they can put a bit of sustained success together, which may happen in the Gus regime, their crowds will go up

 

[t-ba]

We averaged 17k in 03, 04

since then we have been terrible our marketing team has no idea ( We have since signed Royce Simmons to help ). Nothing wrong with the staduim or paying $25 to sit on the 30m line. It's on field and marketing for us.

That is a long time ago now. It was 20 years ago that Manly had some of the best support in Sydney for decades but it means nothing now.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

The question is though will enough extra fans cover for the loss of fans from these grounds? I would say atleast 50% of the 10k we average now wont go. Manly and Sharks fans would be similar.

Whenever this debate comes up, those opposed always bring up the same three clubs (Penrith, Manly and Cronulla) as examples of why it wont work and then say that we should just not talk about it anymore.

I doubt anyone would actually suggest that these 3 should move into sydney, but this is completely forgoting that there are 3 other inner city teams (Eels, Dragons and Tigers) thats play in these shitbox stadiums that are only 20 minutes from better stadiums, because of "tradition".

Every time the topic has been brought up, the ARLC has said that they would not go all out like the afl, instead moving select teams and games.

Within this debate everyone really needs to stop implying that those outer sydney teams are likely to be moved if the NRL does rationalise, it is skewing the debate and giving ammunition to the extremists on both sides.

 

[Kirky]

Sorry, that's what I meant when I referred to 'bigger stadiums' I was referring to ANZ and SFS. My bad.

ah, no wukkas, that makes more sense.

Dropping prices is really only going to help at big, central stadiums and even then you still really need to sort out the free PT as an equal priority.

Agreed. This isn't scientific, just my own anecdotal experience, but I used to go with a core group of 10 or so people to Raiders games week in week out, rain hail or shine (though it rarely shines here). Over the last few years though i'm lucky if I can convince one or two of them to come along with me. Ticket prices aren't an issue for any of them, it's just that it's so much easier to watch the game at home on TV, and in Canberra, much more comfortable. They'll still watch every single game, but will only attend one or maybe two (Dragons game guarenteed) matches a year. A large part of this is because of the state of our stadium and the weather in Canberra during footy season, but mostly it's just that people these days CBF. While i'm sure we'll get an uplift when we get the new indoor stadium, overall i'm not sure how you combat complacency in a fan base spoiled by fantastic TV coverage?

 

[CC_Roosters]

I hope the NRL are strong about the TV slots in the off-season and urge Fox to keep saturday 3pm as a weekly fixture. Night footy combined with below par facilities is limiting the potential for growth and indeed reversing it at many clubs

In 2014 we should see 12 games with home and away access between souths, bulldogs, eels, tigers so that will be a nice boost in sydney. I would like to then see Cronulla V Dragons H&A played at Allianz each season with access, one on queens birthday arvo every year. Add to that Dragons v Roosters H&A for members at Allianz and we are starting to build a strong base of marquee sydney fixtures, each of which can be used to anchor a round and become in effect match of the round

There then has to be a way to work Manly members into some marquee games at Allianz or ANZ each season. Perhaps they could have away games included against say doggies and Souths at ANZ to make up for any games lost to Gosford.

There is so much scope for improvement within the current scheduling and stadia before major changes are even looked at

 

[Teddyboy]

The ARLC messed with the fabric of the game when they changed the rules on shoulder charges and cracked down on fights with striking charges handed down like they've never been before and the sin bin threatened for anyone who throws a punch.

In isolation people think these incidents mean very little but they've changed the way the game is played. I watched an ESL game on the weekend between Hull City & Hull KR and shock, early in the game Travis Burns started a fight. The next hitup after the fight resulted in a HUGE hit and a lost ball, the crowd went nuts, the players all rushed in to pat their mate on the back and pump the team up and the tone for the game was set.

From there on in the intensity was immense, every tackle was intended to hurt the other player and there was a bit of niggle from start to finish which resulted in (again, shock) Travis Burns starting a fight in the 80th minute. I was hooked and I have to admit the quality of the game actually didn't concern me that much purely because there was a great contest going on.

It prompted me to think about the last time I enjoyed a neutral NRL game this much but I honestly couldn't think of many that stood out this year. Origin stands out for me, no one ever complains about the lack of flair in SOO, no one ever uses the excuse of bad scheduling to stop them from watching the game, and no one ever lets the ridiculous ticket prices stop them from going. It continues to grow massively every year, around the world despite the fact that the game faces the same challenges the NRL do. I put it down purely to the fact like I mentioned earlier that we love the contest, the big hits, the intensity and the potential for a fight.

I know it's not politically correct to say this but I believe I'm in the majority in Australia when I say this, I enjoy violence in a controlled environment like a professional football game, I don't like to see cheap shots but if things boil over in the heat of the contest then I think it's great entertainment (especially for the neutral). The ARLC are paying way too much attention to the minority and I'm sick of it. There's nothing like it at a football ground when there's a great physical contest going on, it gets everyone hooked regardless of whether you're on the couch or at the game. It's an atmosphere you just can't describe.

I agree that the wrestle has also contributed to a more sterile game where teams just seem to go through the motions when making yards these days but I also believe the banning of the shoulder charge has just as significantly changed the core fabric of our game.

It doesn't surprise me that our game isn't appealing to new viewers as much as it has in the past, for all the good things the ARLC have done, this is one they've gotten wrong.

I saw this link on a Bulldogs forum and I think it's a great example of what we don't see enough of any more in the game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC7uzSKnVRA

Very true I think it's simple why the NRL crowd's are dropping and that's tv scheduling, the shoulder charge ban and the ban the biff in the middle of the season but there are a few other factor's with too many Sydney club's wanting the share of a shrinking pie and club's not being replaced for expansion sides.

 

[Perth Red]

The ARLC messed with the fabric of the game when they changed the rules on shoulder charges and cracked down on fights with striking charges handed down like they've never been before and the sin bin threatened for anyone who throws a punch.

In isolation people think these incidents mean very little but they've changed the way the game is played. I watched an ESL game on the weekend between Hull City & Hull KR and shock, early in the game Travis Burns started a fight. The next hitup after the fight resulted in a HUGE hit and a lost ball, the crowd went nuts, the players all rushed in to pat their mate on the back and pump the team up and the tone for the game was set.

From there on in the intensity was immense, every tackle was intended to hurt the other player and there was a bit of niggle from start to finish which resulted in (again, shock) Travis Burns starting a fight in the 80th minute. I was hooked and I have to admit the quality of the game actually didn't concern me that much purely because there was a great contest going on.

It prompted me to think about the last time I enjoyed a neutral NRL game this much but I honestly couldn't think of many that stood out this year. Origin stands out for me, no one ever complains about the lack of flair in SOO, no one ever uses the excuse of bad scheduling to stop them from watching the game, and no one ever lets the ridiculous ticket prices stop them from going. It continues to grow massively every year, around the world despite the fact that the game faces the same challenges the NRL do. I put it down purely to the fact like I mentioned earlier that we love the contest, the big hits, the intensity and the potential for a fight.

I know it's not politically correct to say this but I believe I'm in the majority in Australia when I say this, I enjoy violence in a controlled environment like a professional football game, I don't like to see cheap shots but if things boil over in the heat of the contest then I think it's great entertainment (especially for the neutral). The ARLC are paying way too much attention to the minority and I'm sick of it. There's nothing like it at a football ground when there's a great physical contest going on, it gets everyone hooked regardless of whether you're on the couch or at the game. It's an atmosphere you just can't describe.

I agree that the wrestle has also contributed to a more sterile game where teams just seem to go through the motions when making yards these days but I also believe the banning of the shoulder charge has just as significantly changed the core fabric of our game.

It doesn't surprise me that our game isn't appealing to new viewers as much as it has in the past, for all the good things the ARLC have done, this is one they've gotten wrong.

I saw this link on a Bulldogs forum and I think it's a great example of what we don't see enough of any more in the game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC7uzSKnVRA

This was the warm up academy game! Helps when you have teams that truly dislike each other, nowadays NRL players are all best mates and look like they don't really care if they win or lose, laughing and joking with each other after the whistle.



http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-3bqMk4...=-3bqMk4KkHs

 

[DC_fan]

ah, no wukkas, that makes more sense.



Agreed. This isn't scientific, just my own anecdotal experience, but I used to go with a core group of 10 or so people to Raiders games week in week out, rain hail or shine (though it rarely shines here). Over the last few years though i'm lucky if I can convince one or two of them to come along with me. Ticket prices aren't an issue for any of them, it's just that it's so much easier to watch the game at home on TV, and in Canberra, much more comfortable. They'll still watch every single game, but will only attend one or maybe two (Dragons game guarenteed) matches a year. A large part of this is because of the state of our stadium and the weather in Canberra during footy season, but mostly it's just that people these days CBF. While i'm sure we'll get an uplift when we get the new indoor stadium, overall i'm not sure how you combat complacency in a fan base spoiled by fantastic TV coverage?

According to a newspaper report around the middle of the year, not only were crowds down but also was the TV ratings. Have not heard anything since, so I don't know how the ratings stand up at the moment.

If fans are not attending games and not watching them on TV then what are they doing?

 

[Cumberland Throw]

I hope the NRL are strong about the TV slots in the off-season and urge Fox to keep saturday 3pm as a weekly fixture. Night footy combined with below par facilities is limiting the potential for growth and indeed reversing it at many clubs

In 2014 we should see 12 games with home and away access between souths, bulldogs, eels, tigers so that will be a nice boost in sydney. I would like to then see Cronulla V Dragons H&A played at Allianz each season with access, one on queens birthday arvo every year. Add to that Dragons v Roosters H&A for members at Allianz and we are starting to build a strong base of marquee sydney fixtures, each of which can be used to anchor a round and become in effect match of the round

There then has to be a way to work Manly members into some marquee games at Allianz or ANZ each season. Perhaps they could have away games included against say doggies and Souths at ANZ to make up for any games lost to Gosford.

There is so much scope for improvement within the current scheduling and stadia before major changes are even looked at

Amazing how people on forums can have such good ideas, whilst NRL produces nothing

I say we could submit 20-30 sydney marquee games a year, that we can honestly build around

THe AFL have basically done that around their big 4, for 30 years

 

[LJC]

Funny - my wife and I were only discussing that 26 rounds was too many.

20 teams - 19 rounds with 3 bye weekends for SoO would be perfect IMO.

And have your schedule and opponents locked in each season HAHAH in year 1, 3 and 5 and AHAHA in year 2, 4 and 6.

That way, you play everyone Home and Away in a 2 year cycle.

Agree.
And with the 20 team 19 round logic this could allow for additional teams in future years without the pain of carving up clubs with generational support.
Great look at scheduling!

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

The Dogs average has gone below 20k and they only have one home game left against famed travellers Penrith.

We will have the biggest average crowds in Sydney and 2nd overall by the time round 26 is finished. I guarantee our next 3 home games will have a combined crowd of 100,000. And we will do that with no afternoon games at ANZ all year. So how about you stop talking crap about us PR.

How many of those games have you been to?
You always "Stick your neck out" & have an opinion on crowds,yet you never go to a game.
You are a f**ktard.

 

[franklin2323]

That is a long time ago now. It was 20 years ago that Manly had some of the best support in Sydney for decades but it means nothing now.

Of course it is. That's also the last time we were good. So no doubt performance based as much as anything with us.

 

[franklin2323]

that are only 20 minutes from better stadiums, because of "tradition".

For the record certain games should all be in the big grounds.
Though half GA prices you can add 1-2k atleast to the other games. Pull crowds up.

Though why did only 10k come last night to a good stadium? Decent weather. No hill. Cheapest memberships as well? Maybe cheaper on the gate prices is more needed. Less night games.

ANZAC Day is good. Good Friday is good though the other public holidays are needed start traditions on these days.

If it was tradition Parra would still have the hill. More to do with the League's club in the stadium carpark among other things. So while they can fill a bigger ground can't see more then 2 or 3 moving.

The 'home' games Parra at ANZ & Tigers at Allianz haven't been dramatically better compared to at the 'shitholes'. Maybe it wasn't here but when Parra said extra games at ANZ there were pissed fans.

 

[Perth Red]

I still think that scheduling two Sydney blockbusters each weekend, one Friday night, one Sunday afternoon played at either Allianz or anz is the way to go. Plenty of hype, plenty of off field entertainment, free give aways for kids, make it a real must do event for any self respecting Sydney RL fan. Cheap entrance and free PT to the game. Advertise it in every hotel room so tourists from overseas are encouraged to experience some aussie culture. fixed for ne year so travelling fans can organise travel plans. That would be a better start to a central stadium policy than just shifting clubs who are barely cracking 5 figure crowds.

 

[Perth Red]

Well we get to test the cost of ticket theory this weekend, panthers are offering admission for one adult and one child for $10.

 

[Teddyboy]

I still think that scheduling two Sydney blockbusters each weekend, one Friday night, one Sunday afternoon played at either Allianz or anz is the way to go. Plenty of hype, plenty of off field entertainment, free give aways for kids, make it a real must do event for any self respecting Sydney RL fan. Cheap entrance and free PT to the game. Advertise it in every hotel room so tourists from overseas are encouraged to experience some aussie culture. fixed for ne year so travelling fans can organise travel plans. That would be a better start to a central stadium policy than just shifting clubs who are barely cracking 5 figure crowds.

You should be CEO.