Crowd Watch, Part III

[t-ba]

Culture of attendance in AFL is as old as the VFL. They've spent the last 25 years actively boosting attendances. They began ground rationalisation nearly 50 years ago. Of course they'd have better crowds!

We used to have one, but Leagues clubs changed everything. the mountains of cash from one armed bandits meant that crowds were neglected, and often actively discouraged for decades. People didn't want more members because it'd threaten their little fiefdoms... We've never had a truly coherent strategy for crowd growth. I don't know what people expect. Hopefully this changes over the next few years.

The whole 'things to do' thing is a load of crap. Now I'm as arrogant a Sydneysider as the next, but a near decade out of Sydney living in Brisbane and three very big foreign cities has indicated to me that everywhere in the world has other stuff do.

There's some exceptionally hard work ahead of the game, but now without a media organisation more interested in ratings than crowds with its claws out of the game, a newly formed upper management and apparently the game pulling in one direction, these issues can be addressed.

It will take time however. Doesn't help when our Media rights owners have declared war against the game either...

 

[SaraSassypants]

The NRL has one team in Melbourne compared to the AFL's 9

You've missed the context in which the original statement was made. Original comment was that perhaps another reason for Sydney's crowds being so low is that cost of living in Sydney is one of the most expensive in the world. A comment was then made about Swans not having an issue attracting crowds. It was then said that Swans don't need to share their fans amongst 8 other clubs. It was just a different view on the whole NRL va AFL debate. Link below shows cost of living in Sydney is almost $900 more expensive compared to Melbourne. I know a few people who have gone through redundancies in the last few years and it has lead to many families spending less. $800 a lot of money to the average family.
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...ty1=Sydney&country2=Australia&city2=Melbourne

 

[DC_fan]

The Titans say they had a crowd of 15,786

 

[Chook Norris]

You've missed the context in which the original statement was made. Original comment was that perhaps another reason for Sydney's crowds being so low is that cost of living in Sydney is one of the most expensive in the world. A comment was then made about Swans not having an issue attracting crowds. It was then said that Swans don't need to share their fans amongst 8 other clubs. It was just a different view on the whole NRL va AFL debate. Link below shows cost of living in Sydney is almost $900 more expensive compared to Melbourne. I know a few people who have gone through redundancies in the last few years and it has lead to many families spending less. $800 a lot of money to the average family.
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...ty1=Sydney&country2=Australia&city2=Melbourne

Well that argument can also be rendered invalid given the Swans have shown it is possible to attract large crowds (although, it can be argued that Rugby League is a working man's game and thus any subsequent increases in the cost of living are bound to affect NRL attendances more). The 1 team v 9 team argument isn't that valid either, as if it were then the Storm would be attracting very large crowds, but they don't. I think the main thing is the marketing approach of both codes and it shows how far behind the NRL are lagging in that department. The Swans have forever had great marketing exposure and hopefully with the Storm's recent privatisation, they will too. As well, IMO, NRL fans just aren't as passionate, in general, as their AFL counterparts. Most games are basically built up so much to be a "must see" event.

 

[Brutus]

The Titans say they had a crowd of 15,786

15-16k looked about right for Skilled Park tonight.

 

[hutch]

The difference between the storm and the swans average crowd is minimal these days. The swans crowds have reduced dramatically over the last few years.

 

[DC_fan]

Well that argument can also be rendered invalid given the Swans have shown it is possible to attract large crowds (although, it can be argued that Rugby League is a working man's game and thus any subsequent increases in the cost of living are bound to affect NRL attendances more). The 1 team v 9 team argument isn't that valid either, as if it were then the Storm would be attracting very large crowds, but they don't. I think the main thing is the marketing approach of both codes and it shows how far behind the NRL are lagging in that department. The Swans have forever had great marketing exposure and hopefully with the Storm's recent privatisation, they will too. As well, IMO, NRL fans just aren't as passionate, in general, as their AFL counterparts. Most games are basically built up so much to be a "must see" event.

It's easier for one team as in the Swans to average 30,000 per game then it is for 9 NRL teams (Sydney) to average 15,000 per game.

I believe the cost of living in Sydney had to be a factor, but not the only one for the small crowds in Sydney.

But then how do you explain the poor crowds elsewhere?

 

[DC_fan]

The difference between the storm and the swans average crowd is minimal these days.

Storm this season are averaging 16,000. While the Swans average 27,000

 

[Chook Norris]

It's easier for one team as in the Swans to average 30,000 per game then it is for 9 NRL teams (Sydney) to average 15,000 per game.

Which is why i brought up the Storm being the only NRL team in Melbourne v 9 AFL teams in Melbourne. If that one team argument is valid, then surely that has to be valid for the Storm too. Given the AFL is a minority code in Sydney just like the Storm are a minority code in Melbourne, then surely it should be a fair comparison.

I believe the cost of living in Sydney had to be a factor, but not the only one for the small crowds in Sydney.

Indeed

But then how do you explain the poor crowds elsewhere?

Well, the AFL supposedly have a better public transport system and stadiums are lot more accessible. As i said previously, I think it's also a culture thing and attending games in the NRL. Imo, that can indeed probably be fixed in the long term through club memberships and making fans feel more included to their respective clubs.

 

[Evenflow]

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...ty1=Sydney&country2=Australia&city2=Melbourne

That's all well and good but Melbourne is (unfortunately) right up Sydney's are in the most expensive cities in the world. According to the latest study Melbourne is equal 4th with Olso and Sydney 3rd. Given it doesn't seem to affect Melbourne sporting crowds then i don't think this can be used as a reason/excuse.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/04/travel/cost-of-living-2013/index.html

 

[Perth Red]

If you don't think rugby league has been in competition with rugby union on many levels since 1908 in NSW and QLD then you are seriously deluded.

It's called the rugby divide.

The AFL has enjoyed a monopoly in Victoria since time immemorial.

What's the Tards avg crowd? One team in a city of 5million? Yep massive is RU! I can see how it impacts on NRL crowds :sarcasm:

 

[Perth Red]

That's all well and good but Melbourne is (unfortunately) right up Sydney's are in the most expensive cities in the world. According to the latest study Melbourne is equal 4th with Olso and Sydney 3rd. Given it doesn't seem to affect Melbourne sporting crowds then i don't think this can be used as a reason/excuse.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/04/travel/cost-of-living-2013/index.html

Whoever did that list hasn't lived in Perth for a week! Going out in Sydney was great as it was third cheaper than a night out in Perth!

 

[Billythekid]

The Titans say they had a crowd of 15,786

I think that's spot on. Felt like a warriors home game though.

 

[Perth Red]

Ok so the NRL now have $100million income a year that they didn't have before so they SHOULD have the money to sort this out and get crowds seriously moving in the right direction. Here's what I'd do for starters:

1. Every team to take 2 home games on the road during the season meaning 10 games at home, clubs compensated for their efforts with $250k per game bonus as part of the discretionary $1.15mill grant currently availble to clubs. Areas targeted are growth,expansion, areas that can draw a min 15k crowd
2. Manly offered $2million a year to change name and take on the whole north shore/northern beaches/CC as its new geographical area with 4 games a year to be played at Gosford
3. Match of the round to be played at Allianz on a Friday night featuring two Sydney teams each round, massive promotion, entertainment and a min 25k target for each game
4. NRL to bring consistency to full memberships by making all clubs offer same price memberships across the competition. 10 home game memberships Prices range from $300 ($40 jnrs) for best seats to $75 ($25 jnrs) for cheapest seats. Gate prices will be no more than $35 for best seats and $15 for cheapest. All U16's $2.50 on gate. Family tickets no more than $75 for 2 adults and 2 children.
5. If you are a full member of a club you can attend any NRL game for 50% discount on gate price and any away game your team is playing in for free
6. Clubs will receive $1million extra a year in grant allowance to cover any lost earnings due to decreased ticket sale
7. Clubs will be set a 10% attendance increase every year in order to get full $1million grant
8. NZ Warriors will have Australian based membership options ie a Warriors Sydney membership that gets Warriors fans in to any game in Sydney featuring Warriors
9. Perth announced as next expansion area and will get 4 games a year guaranteed until the WC Pirates Kick off in 2017. A WC Pirates membership will be available inc the 4 NRL games for a discounted price meaning sell outs for Perth games and a Pirates membership base built up before they kick off
10. NRL will stop scheduling games at crappy times for fans!

Reckon that would cost a max of $18mill a year and see a massive difference in crowds. If it doesn't then we have to admit we are a much smaller sport than we thought and need to except sub 15k crowds as the norm!

 

[supercharger]

The other factor where afl works in places like perth because there are no other options for things to do there

There is a plethora of things to do on a fine sunny day in syds. And there are other sports you can go see on at the same time

Ie nsw cup, shute shield, or your own sport!

Oh please there are many nice parks and beaches to spend a nice sunny day here in perth, just like sydney, which is about the same as anywhere else I've ever been
As for the nsw cup and Shute shield...uh seriously? They average what in the hundreds, jeez guy

 

[supercharger]

The NRL has one team in Melbourne compared to the AFL's 9

True. It could be that once clubs in the NSWRL started generating massive revenue from pokies they simply didnt put the required effort in to attracting crowds, which brings us to where we are now. the NRL is hardly a gate driven league is it?
Things will change but it will take time, i think alot of people have unrealistic expectations in terms of crowds which leads to disappointment. But I would reject the suggestion that afl fans are more passionate, that's asinine

 

[supercharger]

Rugby league isn't a monopoly code in Sydney like AFL is in Melb.

There has always been a league-union divide in Sydney.

C'mon man it's true that RL doesn't dominate sydney as much as AR dominates melbourne but in bashing the unholy crushing vortex of boredom it is often pointed out that the game is only popular in a couple of postcodes and now they are thwarting our crowds in sydney, that's just cray cray

 

[Teddyboy]

Ok so the NRL now have $100million income a year that they didn't have before so they SHOULD have the money to sort this out and get crowds seriously moving in the right direction. Here's what I'd do for starters:

1. Every team to take 2 home games on the road during the season meaning 10 games at home, clubs compensated for their efforts with $250k per game bonus as part of the discretionary $1.15mill grant currently availble to clubs. Areas targeted are growth,expansion, areas that can draw a min 15k crowd
2. Manly offered $2million a year to change name and take on the whole north shore/northern beaches/CC as its new geographical area with 4 games a year to be played at Gosford
3. Match of the round to be played at Allianz on a Friday night featuring two Sydney teams each round, massive promotion, entertainment and a min 25k target for each game
4. NRL to bring consistency to full memberships by making all clubs offer same price memberships across the competition. 10 home game memberships Prices range from $300 ($40 jnrs) for best seats to $75 ($25 jnrs) for cheapest seats. Gate prices will be no more than $35 for best seats and $15 for cheapest. All U16's $2.50 on gate. Family tickets no more than $75 for 2 adults and 2 children.
5. If you are a full member of a club you can attend any NRL game for 50% discount on gate price and any away game your team is playing in for free
6. Clubs will receive $1million extra a year in grant allowance to cover any lost earnings due to decreased ticket sale
7. Clubs will be set a 10% attendance increase every year in order to get full $1million grant
8. NZ Warriors will have Australian based membership options ie a Warriors Sydney membership that gets Warriors fans in to any game in Sydney featuring Warriors
9. Perth announced as next expansion area and will get 4 games a year guaranteed until the WC Pirates Kick off in 2017. A WC Pirates membership will be available inc the 4 NRL games for a discounted price meaning sell outs for Perth games and a Pirates membership base built up before they kick off
10. NRL will stop scheduling games at crappy times for fans!

Reckon that would cost a max of $18mill a year and see a massive difference in crowds. If it doesn't then we have to admit we are a much smaller sport than we thought and need to except sub 15k crowds as the norm!

I like it apart from the Central Coast only getting 4 games a year.

 

[t-ba]

1. Every team to take 2 home games on the road during the season meaning 10 games at home, clubs compensated for their efforts with $250k per game bonus as part of the discretionary $1.15mill grant currently availble to clubs. Areas targeted are growth,expansion, areas that can draw a min 15k crowd

Fine in theory, but why should one team towns lose one of their home games for the benefit of other areas? Sydney sides, fine, but the Broncos lose a shit more 250k playing out of Suncorp...

2. Manly offered $2million a year to change name and take on the whole north shore/northern beaches/CC as its new geographical area with 4 games a year to be played at Gosford

Yeah, na, not happening. The best we can hope for is the Lower and Middle North Shores and a CC based entity picking up the rest of the area. It's an area of about 1.2m so it can probably handle two sides...Beyond our biggish supporter base on the Coast, our name is poison.

The club isn't changing its name. We don't have too. We are the plaything of rich playthings who cycle in and out of the club as bigger wealthier egos take over the mantle. That 2 million isn't needed. I guess a big benefit of coming from a wealthier part of the country is that rich patrons will always be willing to back us. Bit like Uncle Nick down at the Roosters...

3. Match of the round to be played at Allianz on a Friday night featuring two Sydney teams each round, massive promotion, entertainment and a min 25k target for each game.

Riiight. You are aware how far away Allianz is from the bulk of Sydney's population right? We're talking about a city with a land area comparable to Yorkshire and you want to play the game at the Sydney equivalent of Doncaster on a Friday night hoping people from the Sydney equivalents of Hull, Leeds and York will battle their way down to the ground? :lol: Can't wait for the mouthwatering Parra vs Canterbury match on a weeknight 20km away from their catchments with shit transport options.

4. NRL to bring consistency to full memberships by making all clubs offer same price memberships across the competition. 10 home game memberships Prices range from $300 ($40 jnrs) for best seats to $75 ($25 jnrs) for cheapest seats. Gate prices will be no more than $35 for best seats and $15 for cheapest. All U16's $2.50 on gate. Family tickets no more than $75 for 2 adults and 2 children.

Fine with that as long as the NRL commits to increasing the quality of stadia so clubs in remote boutique grounds have an increased capacity so as not to be limited by it.

5. If you are a full member of a club you can attend any NRL game for 50% discount on gate price and any away game your team is playing in for free

Yep, definitely.

6. Clubs will receive $1million extra a year in grant allowance to cover any lost earnings due to decreased ticket sale

Na, f**k that. that $16m could go towards development...

7. Clubs will be set a 10% attendance increase every year in order to get full $1million grant

Find me a sporting club that has achieved year on year 10% increases. I reckon there's a couple out there. Now find me a league were more than one club has done this. Shit, find me a league where more than half the league has managed 5% attendance increases for three seasons year on year. That's just fantasy land stuff. What an unrealistic and frankly bizarre goal.

8. NZ Warriors will have Australian based membership options ie a Warriors Sydney membership that gets Warriors fans in to any game in Sydney featuring Warriors

Common sense. Not shocked it hasn't happened yet, but it is common sense.

9. Perth announced as next expansion area and will get 4 games a year guaranteed until the WC Pirates Kick off in 2017. A WC Pirates membership will be available inc the 4 NRL games for a discounted price meaning sell outs for Perth games and a Pirates membership base built up before they kick off

Sold out a game in Perth yet? what makes you think four will happen year on year other than unbridled optimism?

10. NRL will stop scheduling games at crappy times for fans!

It's not up to the NRL. This is how we got the 30 pieces of silver and the game has to live with it for this contract period. The game is at the mercy of the broadcasters.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Storm this season are averaging 16,000. While the Swans average 27,000

The Swans averaged 37,000 in 2006.

AFL in crisis!