Crusaders to Wrexham?

[S.S.T.I.D]

This is the very strong talk on another English-based forum. Now Welsh geography is not my forte, however I understand it is less than 30 miles from the Northern heartland. Are they then a genuine expansion club if they are closer to Widnes than Bridgend?

I'm not being facetious, but I'm genuinely concerned that 4 years of work may be about to be flushed down the toilet. Does anyone believe that they have any chance of succeeding in Northern Wales?

I hope that debacle that has been the Crusaders over the last 12 months will end the RFL's capriciousness in regards to expansion of the game. But I doubt it.

 

[Evil Homer]

It's not a voluntary move to Wrexham - the owner was unable to pay the bills and the only option to keep the club alive is a move to Wrexham. It's a real shame and a big blow for RL in Wales. Hopefully a new club will be set up in the South to try and salvage some of the development of the last four years.

 

[S.S.T.I.D]

It's not a voluntary move to Wrexham - the owner was unable to pay the bills and the only option to keep the club alive is a move to Wrexham. It's a real shame and a big blow for RL in Wales. Hopefully a new club will be set up in the South to try and salvage some of the development of the last four years.

I assume you are talking about Leighton Samuel. So is he walking away from the club entirely?

In my opinion, if the RFL are going to be so obstinate in their expansion than they should be the ones to foot the bill to keep the club/s afloat. I know that would not be welcomed too kindly by fans of Widnes, Leigh, Barrow, Doncaster, etc but that has to be the approach.

I can't help but think that the RFL are being made to look more than a little foolish with what has gone on at Crusaders. And having a nomadic club that may very well perish in 12 months just isn't a good look for the game.

 

[Evil Homer]

I assume you are talking about Leighton Samuel. So is he walking away from the club entirely?

In my opinion, if the RFL are going to be so obstinate in their expansion than they should be the ones to foot the bill to keep the club/s afloat. I know that would not be welcomed too kindly by fans of Widnes, Leigh, Barrow, Doncaster, etc but that has to be the approach.

I can't help but think that the RFL are being made to look more than a little foolish with what has gone on at Crusaders. And having a nomadic club that may very well perish in 12 months just isn't a good look for the game.

Samuel didn't walk away, he was forced out because he doesn't have anywhere near as much money as people thought and has run the club into massive debt.

There's no point the RFL subsidising the club, without an owner they can't ever be sustainable and with the debts they have would just be a massive waste of money and time. The buyer is in Wrexham, so that's where the club will go. If the result of all this is that we end up with a 30 mile extension of the heartlands and a new club then I guess it's better than nothing, although obviously it would have been a lot better to stay in South Wales and there is such potential in the area.

 

[jim_57]

Samuel didn't walk away, he was forced out because he doesn't have anywhere near as much money as people thought and has run the club into massive debt.

There's no point the RFL subsidising the club, without an owner they can't ever be sustainable and with the debts they have would just be a massive waste of money and time. The buyer is in Wrexham, so that's where the club will go. If the result of all this is that we end up with a 30 mile extension of the heartlands and a new club then I guess it's better than nothing, although obviously it would have been a lot better to stay in South Wales and there is such potential in the area.

Is any of this confirmed yet EH?

Surely even if the backer is from Wrexham then they would realise the best business decision would be to continue to play them out of South Wales.

 

[Evil Homer]

Not confirmed, it's happening though. I agree that it makes more business sense to stay in South Wales, but then what would the point of buying the club be? He's the owner of Wrexham FC and wants them to play out of Wrexham's stadium, which to be fair would be one of the better stadiums in the league.

 

[jim_57]

Not confirmed, it's happening though. I agree that it makes more business sense to stay in South Wales, but then what would the point of buying the club be? He's the owner of Wrexham FC and wants them to play out of Wrexham's stadium, which to be fair would be one of the better stadiums in the league.

Just had a read on TRL and it looks likely to be the case. All one big mess by the looks.

The Wrexham FC owner is a businessman, wouldn't it be a wise business choice to play the team where the infastructure is? It's all well and good having a shiny stadium to play in but are they going to get anyone in it? will alot of this years fans not willing to travel be lost to the sport?

I suppose it is better than nothing, if nobody wanted to back the club then it would have folded, atleast now players like Kear and White aren't lost to our sport. One thing is for sure they will have to get their affairs in order really quickly because their season starts in 2 months and they only have about 15 players!

I just hope they can get themselves in order, if they don't I doubt they'll have a license in 2012.

It would be great if another South Wales team could be formed/promoted to play out of Cardiff or Newport in Championship 1. Ideally an Irish and Scottish side aswell.

 

[morgan123]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sports...alls-crusaders-plan-a-tragedy-91466-25253709/

The plans are a joke. Instead of moving the club to Wrexham and accumulating a lot of debt there, they should just wind it up.

I read the other day that 69 schools in South Wales now play Rugby League following the introduction of the Crusaders. There are also 38 junior clubs apparantly. All of those will surely find it hard to justify continuing with league when there is no professional club to aim for or support.

The story of the Crusaders is very like that in London. There the professional side has been equally unsuccessful in attracting the crowds they need for a viable financial foundation to base the club off. London have simply moved around under different ownership and legal entities but are going to go the same way soon enough given their totally unsustainable losses. Both clubs' lack of support is bizarre given the level and speed of developments at grass roots level.

A lot of people suggested I was being overly pessimistic about the state of SL finances in my thread further down the page, but this is the first proof of my point. The next Sky deal won't be anywhere near as lucrative per club if things stay as they are and I think there are more than a few clubs with a very uncertain future.

If this 'move' happens and they are allowed to remain in SL it will be a farce. It will kill off RL in the South of Wales (Where there is actually a lot of potential but no money) and what reason do people in Wrexham have to support a SL club? There is no junior or amateur rugby league played there and they struggle terribly to support a football side, recently going into administration and almost going out of existence altogether. There are rumours of an eventual return to Bridgend after an undefined period. Again, what lure is there to go and support Wrexham Crusaders when there are very likely to not be there long term?

 

[WireMan]

They shouldn't move to Wrexham. If they do it for one or two games when they can't use the Bridgend thats fair enough.

The reason i say they shouldn't is because there is no history of Rugby in the area, its not really expansion as most rugby fans in the area will support Widnes, Wire, Saints or Wigan.

The only way it would work is people in the North supporting league to be different from the south.

But they have to do it properly, you can't just put a super league team in Wrexham without the ground work, it would be better to move the team to Widnes, then use Widnes, Wire and Saints to set up academys in the North Wales region, and if it grows then maybe we will see.

Wales can still have a good international team even if there players play in England or France.

 

[Evil Homer]

Positive news is that there's likely to be a Championship club set up in South Wales that will essentially act as a reserve side for the Crusaders using the dual registration system, so there is still a pathway for junior players and the development work will not be completely lost.

 

[bowes]

Positive news is that there's likely to be a Championship club set up in South Wales that will essentially act as a reserve side for the Crusaders using the dual registration system, so there is still a pathway for junior players and the development work will not be completely lost.

Yeah very good news out of bad news. I heard that a Bridgend based company wanted to buy Crusaders but pulled out because of the large debts (Crusaders have been basically run by the RFL since July when their financial problems became known, though this fact has only recently come out). I wonder if they are involved in this new club? (though also heard rumours they may be based in Blackwood which is in between Newport and Bridgend and home to a Welsh conference side)

The players I would imagine would be from Crusaders reserves with the switch to U20s (assuming Crusaders can run an U20s side which I wouldn't bet on, for financial reasons, though they'd be either all northern English or be based in South Wales)

Wrexham is 3 hours 45 minutes from Bridgend (the roads between north and south Wales are appalling basically single lane country roads, double lane if you're lucky), but only half an hour from Widnes. Twickenham (where Harlequins play) is only 2 hours 30 from Bridgend so actually makes more sense for people to go there to watch SL, though hopefully the C1 South Wales side will be there for them to support (and hopefully will still be there when the Crusaders fold)

 

[S.S.T.I.D]

Thanks to everyone for your input. It can a bit hard trying to put the pieces together from several different forums.

The absolute only positive is that I can see is the Championship news. That is where Crusaders should still of been anyway.

As we all know Crusaders were scarcely competitive last season, so with the season only 2 months away, no home ground as yet, no players and a possible move to an area with little RL history I really don't see how they could possibly be more competitive than they were last year and how they could hope to draw more people through the gates.

What a mess.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

It's happening. Samuels has walked away from the club, about six months saying he was in for the long haul. The Wrexham boss has thrown the Cru a lifeline and they have taken it. I hope the Championship club is true but I'm not so sure.

 

[Lambretta]

Wrexham does make sense - as the club will be playing at a decent stadium and Wrexham is still proudly Welsh as a City.

Also, Wrexham vs Warrington will give another Derby game as Clwyd borders Cheshire which is the County that Warrington is in.


Welsh fans of League would still support the Welsh side and if there's junior teams in the South with a development pathway it can still work.

 

[WireMan]

Wrexham does make sense - as the club will be playing at a decent stadium and Wrexham is still proudly Welsh as a City.

Also, Wrexham vs Warrington will give another Derby game as Clwyd borders Cheshire which is the County that Warrington is in.


Welsh fans of League would still support the Welsh side and if there's junior teams in the South with a development pathway it can still work.

A Warrington - Wrexham Derby... Not really but it is closer than Bridgend i suppose.

Oh and Warrington is Lancashire really, we don't really see ourselves as Cheshire. Well some of us do, but they live south of the canal and therefore don't really count. ;-)

If they can get the structure and youth side working it will be a good place to expand to. If not, it will be worse than Crusaders as Widnes is just down the road.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

THe latest is that the Wrexham deal is not done. There are actually three possible backers and the club is still negotiating. Two of them want to eekp them in South Wales so that is still a possibility. The team is training on Cardiff and Utai, Winterstein, Lee and Martin have joined the 10 or 12 who were already in the squad. Other players are yet to be signed due to the uncertainty.

 

[jim_57]

THe latest is that the Wrexham deal is not done. There are actually three possible backers and the club is still negotiating. Two of them want to eekp them in South Wales so that is still a possibility. The team is training on Cardiff and Utai, Winterstein, Lee and Martin have joined the 10 or 12 who were already in the squad. Other players are yet to be signed due to the uncertainty.

Hardly inspiring signings, can't even work out who "Martin" is.

Presumably Lee will partner White in the halves and Utai will almost certainly have a wing spot.

I think they might want to try looking outside the box, a PNG player without a pro contract could work really well for them, a player like Jessie Joe Parker would be ideal. Or maybe search the French Elite for experienced players who could do a good job.

 

[S.S.T.I.D]

It appears that all may not be lost in South Wales.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/dec/01/championship-one-brewery-field-bridgend

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Hardly inspiring signings, can't even work out who "Martin" is.

Presumably Lee will partner White in the halves and Utai will almost certainly have a wing spot.

I think they might want to try looking outside the box, a PNG player without a pro contract could work really well for them, a player like Jessie Joe Parker would be ideal. Or maybe search the French Elite for experienced players who could do a good job.

Tony Martin from Wakefield (ex-Melbourne, London, Warriors)

There are other players in talks but haven't signed on. Michael Witt is one who might end up there and he'd be a good halves signing.

Jessie Joe Parker has already signed for an English club. Can't remember which one.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

It appears that all may not be lost in South Wales.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/dec/01/championship-one-brewery-field-bridgend

This is surprising in that the company that now owns the Brewery Field have made the Cru so unwelcome. There has been a lot of conjecture over where the new club would be based with everywhere from Pontypridd to Blackwood and Port Talbot mentioned. Bridgend would be a good fans choice considering the Cru supporters are mostly based in the area.